Definitive Proof Chinese Invented Pasta Before Italians !!!

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Hell, I've got 4000 year old noodles in my pantry.

--
Peter Aitken
Visit my recipe and kitchen myths page at www.pgacon.com/cooking.htm

Peter Aitken said:

"Mark Thorson" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Hell, I've got 4000 year old noodles in my pantry.

No one knows who first invented the noodle... many cultures have
independantly developed some version of the noodle. The only things
regarding noodles that are attributible to the WOPS is the word "pasta"
(means paste, kinda lika c-ment.. hehe), and that they invented the
process of *extruding* noodles, which made possible so many unique
shapes. The orientals of course invented far more noodle recipes, for
the noodle itself and for usage, and thousands of years before any dago
ever dreamed of a noodle.

Sheldon

Hell, I've got 4000 year old noodles in my pantry.

--
Peter Aitken
===========================
Heh heh.
Good one.
Nancree

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

.....and they unearthed proof positive that the dispute over who first
invented noodles is at least 3999 years old!

nb

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Sorry about the illogical header for this post. The only thing proven is
that there was a bowl of millet noodles (gack) carbon dated at 4000
years old in China. It's definitive proof of that. Nothing else.

But it probably is older than European use of grass seeds for this sort
of food. Etruscans were known to use flours of several sorts, and Greeks
made laganon of wheat paste, later called laganum by the Romans. Whether
it was baked or fried or boiled isn't known. And, for that matter, the
preparation of the noodles found in China isn't known, either.

I'm curious about how they managed to make millet stay together as a
strand since it has no gluten. This was also written about in this
month's "Nature". I read that the scientists said it was a couple kinds
of millet and they theorized that the noodles were stretched into shape.
Modern millet noodles are extruded and are composed mostly of starches.
They're steamed and dried and have a very hard bite.

The simple fact is that noodles were invented independently by different
cultures, using different grains, at different times. Being first or
being last is of small consequence when it's different races being run.
Arabs have a long history of grain use. Different cultures have taken
ideas from other groups and developed and expanded them.

It's like sex. It was presumably invented by the Greeks, but Italians
finally determined that it would be good if it included women.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Bob (this one) wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the illogical header for this post. The only thing proven is
that there was a bowl of millet noodles (gack) carbon dated at 4000
years old in China. It's definitive proof of that. Nothing else.

But it probably is older than European use of grass seeds for this sort
of food. Etruscans were known to use flours of several sorts, and Greeks
made laganon of wheat paste, later called laganum by the Romans. Whether
it was baked or fried or boiled isn't known. And, for that matter, the
preparation of the noodles found in China isn't known, either.

I'm curious about how they managed to make millet stay together as a
strand since it has no gluten. This was also written about in this
month's "Nature". I read that the scientists said it was a couple kinds
of millet and they theorized that the noodles were stretched into shape.
Modern millet noodles are extruded and are composed mostly of starches.
They're steamed and dried and have a very hard bite.

The simple fact is that noodles were invented independently by different
cultures, using different grains, at different times. Being first or
being last is of small consequence when it's different races being run.
Arabs have a long history of grain use. Different cultures have taken
ideas from other groups and developed and expanded them.

It's like sex. It was presumably invented by the Greeks, but Italians
finally determined that it would be good if it included women.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Nope, whoever has the oldest noodle can canoodle - and so far it's the
Chinese by far.

About two millenia, that's a bit of a head start on everybody else.
2000 years ain't chopped liver.

It's also a simple fact that it's unlikely they were invented all at
the same time. I gather you're not Chinese 🙂

Quoted message said:

Nope, whoever has the oldest noodle can canoodle - and so far it's the
Chinese by far.

About two millenia, that's a bit of a head start on everybody else.
2000 years ain't chopped liver.

Whoa... wouldn't be so hair-triggerish... the Mayan noodle, made of
maize, very likely predates all others by at least twice as long...
it's still made as it was thousands of years ago and probably more is
consumed than all dago and chinese noodles combined ("The first
tortillas, which date approximately 10,000 years before Christ, were
made of native corn with dried kernel"😉.

http://www.mexgrocer.com/mexcocina-oct1.html

http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Tortilla_Taco_history.htm

Sheldon

Quoted message said:

Bob (this one) wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the illogical header for this post. The only thing proven is
that there was a bowl of millet noodles (gack) carbon dated at 4000
years old in China. It's definitive proof of that. Nothing else.

But it probably is older than European use of grass seeds for this sort
of food. Etruscans were known to use flours of several sorts, and Greeks
made laganon of wheat paste, later called laganum by the Romans. Whether
it was baked or fried or boiled isn't known. And, for that matter, the
preparation of the noodles found in China isn't known, either.

I'm curious about how they managed to make millet stay together as a
strand since it has no gluten. This was also written about in this
month's "Nature". I read that the scientists said it was a couple kinds
of millet and they theorized that the noodles were stretched into shape.
Modern millet noodles are extruded and are composed mostly of starches.
They're steamed and dried and have a very hard bite.

The simple fact is that noodles were invented independently by different
cultures, using different grains, at different times. Being first or
being last is of small consequence when it's different races being run.
Arabs have a long history of grain use. Different cultures have taken
ideas from other groups and developed and expanded them.

It's like sex. It was presumably invented by the Greeks, but Italians
finally determined that it would be good if it included women.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Nope, whoever has the oldest noodle can canoodle - and so far it's the
Chinese by far.

That explains why there are so many Chinese and so few Etruscans, right?

Quoted message said:

About two millenia, that's a bit of a head start on everybody else.
2000 years ain't chopped liver.

That's not conclusive, it's just the data available now. But it's likely
reasonably close. The general evidence in Europe is that grass seed
pastes were baked more than cooked in any other fashion.

Quoted message said:

It's also a simple fact that it's unlikely they were invented all at
the same time. I gather you're not Chinese 🙂

Not last I looked. And I believe I said: "The simple fact is that
noodles were invented independently by different cultures, using
different grains, at different times." Why... I did...

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

Quoted message said:

Bob (this one) wrote:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Quoted message said:

Sorry about the illogical header for this post. The only thing proven is
that there was a bowl of millet noodles (gack) carbon dated at 4000
years old in China. It's definitive proof of that. Nothing else.

But it probably is older than European use of grass seeds for this sort
of food. Etruscans were known to use flours of several sorts, and Greeks
made laganon of wheat paste, later called laganum by the Romans. Whether
it was baked or fried or boiled isn't known. And, for that matter, the
preparation of the noodles found in China isn't known, either.

This sounds a bit like lasanga, coincidence?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm curious about how they managed to make millet stay together as a
strand since it has no gluten. This was also written about in this
month's "Nature". I read that the scientists said it was a couple kinds
of millet and they theorized that the noodles were stretched into shape.
Modern millet noodles are extruded and are composed mostly of starches.
They're steamed and dried and have a very hard bite.

They said one made the other bind together so became noodable. Even
today, the Chinese call them iron-wire noodles according to the
article. It's eaten in the rural, poor parts.

"The team concluded the noodles were made from two kinds of
millet-broomcorn millet and foxtail millet. The grain was ground into
flour to make dough, which was then likely pulled and stretched into
shape.

Foxtail millet alone, the researchers say, lacks the stickiness
required to allow the dough to be pulled and stretched into strings."

Sounds like a lot of work but could be now stored.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The simple fact is that noodles were invented independently by different
cultures, using different grains, at different times. Being first or
being last is of small consequence when it's different races being run.
Arabs have a long history of grain use. Different cultures have taken
ideas from other groups and developed and expanded them.

It's like sex. It was presumably invented by the Greeks, but Italians
finally determined that it would be good if it included women.

No, seriously...

Pastorio

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nope, whoever has the oldest noodle can canoodle - and so far it's the
Chinese by far.

That explains why there are so many Chinese and so few Etruscans, right?

Don't know much about that. Maybe the great wall of China gave
everybody a chance to pig out on noodles? Even today, I had a Chinese
scientist express some guilt over the quick comfort of making noodles
over the more tedious rice making, even with a rice maker.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

About two millenia, that's a bit of a head start on everybody else.
2000 years ain't chopped liver.

Sheldon win so far with 12,000 years ago with the Mayans' maize, so
technically it's "American" and he wins the golden noodle so far.
12,000 is like the Ice Age, so I guess that's why it's a great comfort
food, aids when the ice caps melt.

Quoted message said:

That's not conclusive, it's just the data available now. But it's likely
reasonably close. The general evidence in Europe is that grass seed
pastes were baked more than cooked in any other fashion.

Quoted message said:

It's also a simple fact that it's unlikely they were invented all at
the same time. I gather you're not Chinese 🙂

Not last I looked. And I believe I said: "The simple fact is that
noodles were invented independently by different cultures, using
different grains, at different times." Why... I did...

Pastorio

You certainly know your noodles! What a comfort food. I'm trying to
edge in corn noodles, so golden, wheat free for what that's worth, and
about 1/2 the fiber of whole wheat noodles which are getting
suprisingly good. They've made progress. Used to taste like cardboard.
I was surprised that Consumer Reports rated Ronzoni the highest but
it's a blend with added wheat bran making it technically whole wheat.
Last issue has a few ratings on whole wheat noodles. I've seen prices
less than $1 for a pound box of real whole-wheat noodles which is
pretty good since the non-blends go for $2+.

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Did anyone ever say they didn't? As I recall, Marco Polo brought "noodles"
and the idea of pasta back from Asia a *long* time ago. It's taught in
elementary school when they talk about the early explorers.

Oh, the Chinese also invented fireworks and gunpowder. Just in case you
need to know for a future school project 😉

Jill

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Those aren't noodles - those are tapeworms. And that's not a bowl -
it's a toilet.

BTW, why the heck won't they leave those poor giant squid alone? They
freaking tore off it's tenticles, messing with it. [censored].

-L.

-L. said:

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Quoted message said:

Those aren't noodles - those are tapeworms. And that's not a bowl -
it's a toilet.

BTW, why the heck won't they leave those poor giant squid alone? They
freaking tore off it's tenticles, messing with it. [censored].

-L.

Like my cat tore the leg off a cricket. I had to flush the poor thing (the
cricket, not the cat). And why do we care where pasta came from? It's
good. Eat it.

Jill

jmcquown said:

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Did anyone ever say they didn't? As I recall, Marco Polo brought "noodles"
and the idea of pasta back from Asia a *long* time ago. It's taught in
elementary school when they talk about the early explorers.

And they're wrong, if they do teach that. Pasta was well known in Europe
before that.

Quoted message said:

Oh, the Chinese also invented fireworks and gunpowder. Just in case you
need to know for a future school project 😉

And they mapped the human circulatory system and they were the first to
use natural gas and coal, I read recently.

Pastorio

Bob (this one) said:

jmcquown said:

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Did anyone ever say they didn't? As I recall, Marco Polo brought
"noodles" and the idea of pasta back from Asia a *long* time ago. It's

taught

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

in elementary school when they talk about the early explorers.

And they're wrong, if they do teach that. Pasta was well known in
Europe
before that.

Really? Before 1400?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Oh, the Chinese also invented fireworks and gunpowder. Just in case
you
need to know for a future school project 😉

And they mapped the human circulatory system and they were the first
to
use natural gas and coal, I read recently.

Pastorio

Wouldn't surprise me. The Chinese are nothing if not innovative.

Jill

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mark Thorson said:

While reading the giant squid article, I ran across this
(possibly more important) story:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/10/1012_051012_chinese_noodles.html

Did anyone ever say they didn't? As I recall, Marco Polo brought
"noodles"
and the idea of pasta back from Asia a *long* time ago. It's taught in
elementary school when they talk about the early explorers.

Oh, the Chinese also invented fireworks and gunpowder. Just in case you
need to know for a future school project 😉

Jill

Thanks for this site, I didn't know about it. It's now bookmarked, put on
my favorites.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/index.html
I love it.
Dee Dee