on the bike strength drills

Yes, the benefit is greater peak power. --Edit: "Yes, the on-bike strength drills can help", not "Yes, you should ride up big hills in big gears."

Coggan's Zones list "greater neuromuscular power" as a result of doing work in Level 7 (Maximal effort) and I wouldn't think you could climb an entire hill at that level of effort. Just riding in a higher-than-comfortable gear is not going to accomplish what you're looking to do.

He recommends very short, maximal efforts for this: jumps, standing starts, 10sec sprints from a slow starting speed with full recovery in between, etc.

mattjf said:

I've read Ric's thread regarding gyming to improve power and have learned quite a bit. I have a followup question to the thread. Is there any benefit in doing on the bike "strength" drills? Numerous books/coaches suggest that twice a week you should, if you normally use a 39, take a hill in 53 at a low cadence. Should I add a couple hill repeats of hard mashing?

-Matt

i don't believe that there's any benefit whatsoever to riding uphill in a stupid big gear, with a couple exceptions
1) you're practising in case your rear mech cable ever snaps...
2) you may find yourself undergeared

additionally, the forces would likely be higher riding at a higher power and a normal cadence

ric

earlier this year, i was doing hillclimb repeats from the Carmichael regimen. 4 - 8 minute climbs at 50 RPM on a 6%-8% grade. i felt like i gained some leg strenght after doing these for a few weeks.

tmctguer said:

earlier this year, i was doing hillclimb repeats from the Carmichael regimen. 4 - 8 minute climbs at 50 RPM on a 6%-8% grade. i felt like i gained some leg strenght after doing these for a few weeks.

As Ric has said in many threads, the forces in cycling are extremely low, even at low cadence, too low to make strength gains.

Think about it, you wouldn't go to the gym and leg press for eight minutes would you?

whoawhoa said:

Think about it, you wouldn't go to the gym and leg press for eight minutes would you?

Nawww, too boring!!

-Bikeguy

i am no weight lifter, but i think they do reps of leg presses -- say 8 - 12 reps, rest, then repeat. each set of reps lasts less than 8 minutes. i must be missing your point.

when i am pedaling up a grade of 6 - 8% in a high gear at low RPM, it seems like i am relying on more leg strength to get up the hill that if i were in a low gear at high RPM. or am i applying the same force to the pedals in both scenarios?

the low RPM drill sure FEEL like i am using more leg strength. if i am, then aren't i building leg strength doing them??

tmctguer said:

the low RPM drill sure FEEL like i am using more leg strength.

Yes, you are applying more force on the pedals in with high-gear/low rpm than you would with a low-gear/high rpm.

tmctguer said:

if i am, then aren't i building leg strength doing them??

No. Even in your high-gear/low rpm intervals, the force on the pedals is still much less than you would experience by standing on one leg. For most people, that is too little to cause an increase in strength. See the stickied thread entitled "Gyming to improve power" at the top of the forum for more details.

tmctguer said:

when i am pedaling up a grade of 6 - 8% in a high gear at low RPM, it seems like i am relying on more leg strength to get up the hill that if i were in a low gear at high RPM. or am i applying the same force to the pedals in both scenarios?

It's that if you pedal at the same power (i.e., same velocity under the same conditions) up a hill at a lower cadence compared to a higher cadence it will require higher forces. However, the forces are in general quite low to moderate and can easily be met by most people.

If you pedal at a higher cadence (and the same power) the force requirement will decrease.

The main point however, is that if you ride at a higher power and a higher cadence you may well be requiring a higher force than a lower cadence and lower power (even though the low cadence effort may feel harder).

Importantly, the forces aren't high enough to generate increases in strength, which is the maximal force you can generate.

the limiter in endurance cycling performance, for the vast majority is related to lactate threshold and VO2max.

ric