Mountain Bikes · Public discussion

RR: Double Squish vs Rigid SS - rambling observations

Paladin · 2005-10-19T17:07:27+00:00

This is probably boring, but my observations between going from no suspension, on old school geometry, to full suspension with good, 4-bar American made geometry. Well, last night and the night before, I did pretty good rides on the new switchblade, a pretty plush double squish. Jumping into full suspension was a big leap for me, as some of you know I'm a retro-fart who mostly rides a fully rigid SS, and for longer trips or climbs, I have a short-travel hardtail. Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs, like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half. I can turn around very sharply on the blade without losing balance. Might be the bike geometry or just how well Titus puts it all together. Cornering at speed is a new thing for me, with the front and rear working together to double my normal speed and control. wowza, that's a dangerous hootie and the blowfish goin on. A long descent last night with the intermittent water bars were fun, catching air off each one, and landing solid, in control. Finally tried this rock drop that had been tempting me for years, but fear of busting a frame (or the rider) kept me from it. It's only about 3 feet, but it's rock to rock and the landing is slimy from the creek running across it, the landing is flat, and it looks scary... The first try was a little goofy, and by the 3rd I was nailing it like a troo mtndood. I can go faster without thinking, but just point, shoot and start grinning. Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Just different, and the main change I noticed is that the bike really is bearing the brunt of the abuse, where after 18 pretty tough miles Monday nt, I felt fine. Not wasted, beat up and drug in by the cat like I normally would had I done the same thing on the fully rigid SS. So, it's nice to have an option, and to take the suspending job off my aging spine and lay that responsibility on inanimate shocks and springs for a change. But I'll never forsake the Gray Lady, who's aging beautifully, and still my favorite.. really. CDB

Started by Paladin · 19 October 2005 · Last activity 24 October 2005 · 17 posts · 905 views

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Original section: Mountain Bikes
Published: 19 October 2005
Last activity: 24 October 2005
Original author: Paladin
Posts: 17
Discussion status: Public discussion
Total views: 905
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Original post
Paladin
Archived post

19 October 2005, 17:07 UTC #1

This is probably boring, but my observations between going from no
suspension, on old school geometry, to full suspension with good, 4-bar
American made geometry.
Well, last night and the night before, I did pretty good rides on the
new switchblade, a pretty plush double squish. Jumping into full
suspension was a big leap for me, as some of you know I'm a retro-fart
who mostly rides a fully rigid SS, and for longer trips or climbs, I
have a short-travel hardtail.
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
I can turn around very sharply on the blade without losing balance.
Might be the bike geometry or just how well Titus puts it all together.
Cornering at speed is a new thing for me, with the front and rear
working together to double my normal speed and control. wowza, that's
a dangerous hootie and the blowfish goin on.
A long descent last night with the intermittent water bars were fun,
catching air off each one, and landing solid, in control.
Finally tried this rock drop that had been tempting me for years, but
fear of busting a frame (or the rider) kept me from it. It's only
about 3 feet, but it's rock to rock and the landing is slimy from the
creek running across it, the landing is flat, and it looks scary...
The first try was a little goofy, and by the 3rd I was nailing it like
a troo mtndood.
I can go faster without thinking, but just point, shoot and start
grinning. Is that a good thing? A bad thing? Just different, and the
main change I noticed is that the bike really is bearing the brunt of
the abuse, where after 18 pretty tough miles Monday nt, I felt fine.
Not wasted, beat up and drug in by the cat like I normally would had I
done the same thing on the fully rigid SS.
So, it's nice to have an option, and to take the suspending job off my
aging spine and lay that responsibility on inanimate shocks and springs
for a change.
But I'll never forsake the Gray Lady, who's aging beautifully, and
still my favorite.. really.
CDB

Report
G.T.
Archived post

19 October 2005, 17:28 UTC #2

"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
This is probably boring, but my observations between going from no
suspension, on old school geometry, to full suspension with good, 4-bar
American made geometry.
Well, last night and the night before, I did pretty good rides on the
new switchblade, a pretty plush double squish. Jumping into full
suspension was a big leap for me, as some of you know I'm a retro-fart
who mostly rides a fully rigid SS, and for longer trips or climbs, I
have a short-travel hardtail.
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
You'd be surprised about that. It may feel like half but if you ride with
someone on a rigid with the same standing climbing ability as you you'll see
that it's nowhere near that bad.
Greg

Report
JD
Archived post

19 October 2005, 17:54 UTC #3

G.T. said:
"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
This is probably boring, but my observations between going from no
suspension, on old school geometry, to full suspension with good, 4-bar
American made geometry.
Well, last night and the night before, I did pretty good rides on the
new switchblade, a pretty plush double squish. Jumping into full
suspension was a big leap for me, as some of you know I'm a retro-fart
who mostly rides a fully rigid SS, and for longer trips or climbs, I
have a short-travel hardtail.
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
You'd be surprised about that. It may feel like half but if you ride with
someone on a rigid with the same standing climbing ability as you you'll see
that it's nowhere near that bad.
Greg
It all depends on the terrain. In technical singletrack climbing, a
well designed squish takes a lot less energy than a rigid or hardtail
because you're having to wrestle and wrangle a lot less, especially vs
a rigid singlespeed. A well designed squish will keep that rear wheel
planted and grabbing, whereas a rigid will bounce a bit, depending on
how smoothly you are going over the obstacles. On a smooth climb with
a somewhat light grade, I'll take the rigid SS over the squish any day
though.
JD

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Paladin
Archived post

19 October 2005, 22:31 UTC #4

I agree. My first ride out on the squish I stalled out on a rocky
section of a sidehill climb, with some scary esposure. I expected to
lose it and fall over. I resisted the urge to cash it in, or panic
bail, and I somehow rolled over and through it. Hard to explain, but
it definitely held me onto the terrain and a little effort on my part
pulled us through.
Your other point isn't too bad, either. I did a stout but fairly
smooth climb, about a 3rd of a mile up. It's pretty steep, but I've
made it on the SS standing the whole way, working the bar and really
getting into the boogy of the whole thing. On the squish, though,. I
was really bushed cleaning the hill sitting and spinning like a tired
old hamster.
CDB

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Chris G
Archived post

21 October 2005, 19:56 UTC #5

"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on everything
these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to the
efficiency of the hard tail.

Report
JD
Archived post

22 October 2005, 07:43 UTC #6

Chris Crosscountry said:
"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on everything
these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to the
efficiency of the hard tail.
Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode a
smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this, a
rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a much
more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike, FS
or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are based
on.
JD

Report
Chris G
Archived post

22 October 2005, 21:27 UTC #7

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris Crosscountry said:
"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:
Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on everything
these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to the
efficiency of the hard tail.
Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode a
smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this, a
rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a much
more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike, FS
or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are based
on.
JD
The last time would have been a few days ago. I have both hard tail and FS
xc/trail bikes I have been riding these types of bikes (among others) for
quite a few years (mid 90's). I have a great deal on experience setting up
most of the available platform shocks. I personally use and own 2 Manitou
swingers, a Fox DHX 5.0 and a few custom valved Romics. I ride a steel hard
tail allot as well. I have ridden all over British Columbia and Utah as well
as some riding in Eastern Canada and USA. So I guess I would say I base my
opinions on mostly my own personal experience. Which FS bike do you ride?

Report
JD
Archived post

23 October 2005, 00:42 UTC #8

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris Crosscountry said:
"Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
> Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
> crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
> hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
> like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on everything
these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to the
efficiency of the hard tail.
Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode a
smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this, a
rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a much
more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike, FS
or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are based
on.
JD
The last time would have been a few days ago. I have both hard tail and FS
xc/trail bikes I have been riding these types of bikes (among others) for
quite a few years (mid 90's). I have a great deal on experience setting up
most of the available platform shocks. I personally use and own 2 Manitou
swingers, a Fox DHX 5.0 and a few custom valved Romics. I ride a steel hard
tail allot as well. I have ridden all over British Columbia and Utah as well
as some riding in Eastern Canada and USA. So I guess I would say I base my
opinions on mostly my own personal experience. Which FS bike do you ride?
So, you rode a rigid bicycle on a smooth trail a few days ago? Where,
pray tell?
Define "great deal of experience". Do you work at a bike shop?
Were you live and ride mostly is what I was really asking, not a
resume' of where you have been a tourist. Experience starts at home if
you ride enough.
JD

Report
Chris G
Archived post

23 October 2005, 01:31 UTC #9

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris Crosscountry wrote:
> "Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
>
> > Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
> > crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
> > hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
> > like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
>
> In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
> Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on
> everything
> these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to
> the
> efficiency of the hard tail.
Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode a
smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this, a
rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a much
more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike, FS
or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are based
on.
JD
The last time would have been a few days ago. I have both hard tail and
FS
xc/trail bikes I have been riding these types of bikes (among others) for
quite a few years (mid 90's). I have a great deal on experience setting
up
most of the available platform shocks. I personally use and own 2 Manitou
swingers, a Fox DHX 5.0 and a few custom valved Romics. I ride a steel
hard
tail allot as well. I have ridden all over British Columbia and Utah as
well
as some riding in Eastern Canada and USA. So I guess I would say I base
my
opinions on mostly my own personal experience. Which FS bike do you ride?
So, you rode a rigid bicycle on a smooth trail a few days ago? Where,
pray tell?
Define "great deal of experience". Do you work at a bike shop?
Were you live and ride mostly is what I was really asking, not a
resume' of where you have been a tourist. Experience starts at home if
you ride enough.
JD
You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
Which FS bike do you ride again?

Report
JD
Archived post

23 October 2005, 05:32 UTC #10

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
>
> Chris Crosscountry wrote:
>> "Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
>> news:[email hidden]...
>>
>> > Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the RF
>> > crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up the
>> > hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on climbs,
>> > like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in half.
>>
>> In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that shock.
>> Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on
>> everything
>> these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to
>> the
>> efficiency of the hard tail.
>
>
> Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode a
> smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
> vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this, a
> rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a much
> more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike, FS
> or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are based
> on.
>
> JD
>
The last time would have been a few days ago. I have both hard tail and
FS
xc/trail bikes I have been riding these types of bikes (among others) for
quite a few years (mid 90's). I have a great deal on experience setting
up
most of the available platform shocks. I personally use and own 2 Manitou
swingers, a Fox DHX 5.0 and a few custom valved Romics. I ride a steel
hard
tail allot as well. I have ridden all over British Columbia and Utah as
well
as some riding in Eastern Canada and USA. So I guess I would say I base
my
opinions on mostly my own personal experience. Which FS bike do you ride?
So, you rode a rigid bicycle on a smooth trail a few days ago? Where,
pray tell?
Define "great deal of experience". Do you work at a bike shop?
Were you live and ride mostly is what I was really asking, not a
resume' of where you have been a tourist. Experience starts at home if
you ride enough.
JD
You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
No, you keep dodging questions and spinning weak answers without
specifics on the ones you choose to "answer".
Quoted message said:
Which FS bike do you ride again?
How about I answer your question like you might answer mine?
I ride a Marzocchi Z100 XFly, a Marzocchi Z150 QR20, Fox Float R and a
custom sprung Romic.
I should go into a huge semi-narcissistic back-patting session about
how great I am at tuning my shocks and ride for the platforms these are
on, but I'll leave that to the dweebs.
JD

Report
Chris G
Archived post

23 October 2005, 05:46 UTC #11

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
No, you keep dodging questions and spinning weak answers without
specifics on the ones you choose to "answer".
Quoted message said:
Which FS bike do you ride again?
How about I answer your question like you might answer mine?
I ride a Marzocchi Z100 XFly, a Marzocchi Z150 QR20, Fox Float R and a
custom sprung Romic.
I should go into a huge semi-narcissistic back-patting session about
how great I am at tuning my shocks and ride for the platforms these are
on, but I'll leave that to the dweebs.
JD
Sorry, I should have clarified about where I ride. I live in BC, Vancouver
area, but travel through out the province regularly. Do you need me to be
more specific?
What does custom sprung mean? Do you mean custom valved?
PS. A custom valved Romic is the ticket. It takes few attempts to get it
right but when it is on, it better than anything I have ridden.

Report
JD
Archived post

23 October 2005, 06:03 UTC #12

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
No, you keep dodging questions and spinning weak answers without
specifics on the ones you choose to "answer".
Quoted message said:
Which FS bike do you ride again?
How about I answer your question like you might answer mine?
I ride a Marzocchi Z100 XFly, a Marzocchi Z150 QR20, Fox Float R and a
custom sprung Romic.
I should go into a huge semi-narcissistic back-patting session about
how great I am at tuning my shocks and ride for the platforms these are
on, but I'll leave that to the dweebs.
JD
Sorry, I should have clarified about where I ride. I live in BC, Vancouver
area, but travel through out the province regularly. Do you need me to be
more specific?
Only on your extensive travels all over Utah.
Quoted message said:
What does custom sprung mean? Do you mean custom valved?
ZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
JD

Report
Chris G
Archived post

23 October 2005, 06:07 UTC #13

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

>
> You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
No, you keep dodging questions and spinning weak answers without
specifics on the ones you choose to "answer".
> Which FS bike do you ride again?
How about I answer your question like you might answer mine?
I ride a Marzocchi Z100 XFly, a Marzocchi Z150 QR20, Fox Float R and a
custom sprung Romic.
I should go into a huge semi-narcissistic back-patting session about
how great I am at tuning my shocks and ride for the platforms these are
on, but I'll leave that to the dweebs.
JD
Sorry, I should have clarified about where I ride. I live in BC,
Vancouver
area, but travel through out the province regularly. Do you need me to be
more specific?
Only on your extensive travels all over Utah.
Quoted message said:
What does custom sprung mean? Do you mean custom valved?
ZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
JD
I am not sure what you mean? ZOOM? Forgive my ignorance.

Report
BR
Archived post

23 October 2005, 06:43 UTC #14

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris G said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

Chris G wrote:
> "JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> news:[email hidden]...
> >
> > Chris Crosscountry wrote:
> >> "Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
> >> news:[email hidden]...
> >>
> >> > Observations. I can climb longer without stopping, because the
> >> > RF
> >> > crankset has me spinning at 22x34, so I can drag more weight up
> >> > the
> >> > hill and get royally exhausted. however, when I stand up on
> >> > climbs,
> >> > like I always do on the SS, my efficiency is cut at least in
> >> > half.
> >>
> >> In half?? Sounds like you want to spend some time tuning that
> >> shock.
> >> Assuming it is one of the platform shocks that seem to be on
> >> everything
> >> these days, you should be able to dial it in so that it is close to
> >> the
> >> efficiency of the hard tail.
> >
> >
> > Tell us all then Chris Crosscountry, when was the last time you rode
> > a
> > smooth trail on a rigid bicycle? Better yet, tell us all about your
> > vast experience that allows you to make such judgements. Get this,
> > a
> > rigid bike accelerates much more quickly on smooth trails and is a
> > much
> > more stable platform for these conditions than any suspended bike,
> > FS
> > or HT. What do you ride? I want to know what your opinions are
> > based
> > on.
> >
> > JD
> >
>
> The last time would have been a few days ago. I have both hard tail
> and
> FS
> xc/trail bikes I have been riding these types of bikes (among others)
> for
> quite a few years (mid 90's). I have a great deal on experience
> setting
> up
> most of the available platform shocks. I personally use and own 2
> Manitou
> swingers, a Fox DHX 5.0 and a few custom valved Romics. I ride a steel
> hard
> tail allot as well. I have ridden all over British Columbia and Utah
> as
> well
> as some riding in Eastern Canada and USA. So I guess I would say I
> base
> my
> opinions on mostly my own personal experience. Which FS bike do you
> ride?
So, you rode a rigid bicycle on a smooth trail a few days ago? Where,
pray tell?
Define "great deal of experience". Do you work at a bike shop?
Were you live and ride mostly is what I was really asking, not a
resume' of where you have been a tourist. Experience starts at home if
you ride enough.
JD
You asked about my expierience, so i told you.
No, you keep dodging questions and spinning weak answers without
specifics on the ones you choose to "answer".
Quoted message said:
Which FS bike do you ride again?
How about I answer your question like you might answer mine?
I ride a Marzocchi Z100 XFly, a Marzocchi Z150 QR20, Fox Float R and a
custom sprung Romic.
I should go into a huge semi-narcissistic back-patting session about
how great I am at tuning my shocks and ride for the platforms these are
on, but I'll leave that to the dweebs.
JD
You're a true usenet hero

Report
Marty
Archived post

23 October 2005, 12:30 UTC #15

"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

ZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
JD
JD, You really have to put a warning label on stuff like that....... I need
a squeegy for my screen now.
That's funny. I don't care who you are. (my best Larry the Cable Guy).
Marty

Report
Bill Wheeler
Archived post

24 October 2005, 00:58 UTC #16

On 19 Oct 2005 10:07:27 -0700, "Paladin" <[email hidden]> wrote:
[snip hype induced coma]
;-)
I don't want to know what a Oingo Boingo feels like.
Quoted message said:
But I'll never forsake the Gray Lady, who's aging beautifully, and
still my favorite.. really.
word.
Quoted message said:
CDB
Nice,
Bill
The First law, Inertia: Unless acted upon by an outside force,
a body at rest tends to stay at rest,
and a body in motion tends to stay in motion.
Sir Isaac Newton

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JD
Archived post

24 October 2005, 01:41 UTC #17

Marty said:
"JD" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:

ZZZOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM
JD
JD, You really have to put a warning label on stuff like that....... I need
a squeegy for my screen now.
That's funny. I don't care who you are. (my best Larry the Cable Guy).
Maybe I should have changed the subject line to SR-71.
JD

Report

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