Zocor - evil, evil, evil

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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Paul M. Cook said:

"Stan Horwitz" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

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In article <y5Q7f.16009$Io4.7733@trnddc06>,
"Paul M. Cook" <[email hidden]> wrote:
>
> You presented not one fact. You provided an emotional reaction to a

fact.

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> The fact being that the AMA suppressed a cure for ulcers for 20 years
> because it would have had a direct and severe impact on the drug

industry.

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> Even in the 1980s the cure rate from the treatment being employed in
> Australia was in the 10s of thousands and nobody fied from taking

bismuth

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> and a common antibiotic. Yet the AMA stonewalled.
>
> Paul

That's interesting. How do you know this?

It's been around since I first read it 21 years ago. It's not new, it

was

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almost a scandal. The AMA capitulated finally and allowed limited

trials.

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It was only when the trials produced exceptional results that they

finally

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approved the therapy. And this is just one example of many. How many
people had to endure a medical condition that was treatable? Why did it
take 20 years for the treatment using common and proven safe (also very
cheap) drugs to be approved? Public safety has to be preserved sure but
this was just ridiculous.

There is nothing in the literature about this. I have been around for
56 years and doing research with physicians and hospitals for 33 of
them. Find this anywhere and prove it. If it was so scandalous, why
isn't it written up anywhere in the medical literature?

http://www.tallpoppies.net.au/cavalcade/warren.htm

As I recall it was Time Magazine, 1984. Pardon me for not knowing which
issue. And it was written about in other publications over the years as
well.

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The above article is about the Aussies who cultured Helicobacter
pylori in 1982. Within 5 years of this, and further experiments by
them, the idea had been thoroughly tested & treatment patterns
changed. You are completely misinformed and incorrect in your claims.

I am not aware that the Australian therapy has changed. I do know the final
treatment approved here is different than the one initially used in
Australia.

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First of all, the AMA cannot "suppress" anything. It is a professional
organization with no legal enforcement powers whatsoever. The AMA does
not "allow" clinical trials. These "trials" as you call them, are
done at hospitals, universities, pharmas, and other places that have
business or academic interest in the field of medicine.

The AMA sets guidlines about what a doctor can or cannot do. It does not
matter if the treatment is harmless they cannopt prescribe it unless it is
an approved treatment. The AMA is very much a factor in this *especially*
when it involves using pre-approved drugs for ailments not initially
approved.

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There is the case of an invention that safely removed plaque from the

walls

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of severely clogged arteries. It required a simple surgical procedure

very

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much like an angioplasty (which itself is not entirely safe) but it is
permanent in that it removes the plaque by turning it into a loose
suspension using high frequency sound and then suctioning it away. It

was

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shelved by the FDA and the AMA without reason and some researchers

insisted

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it was because the drug companies were pushing and lobbying against it
because it would have affected sales of their plaque reducing drugs.

The AMA does not shelve anything. The FDA can deny approval to a
procedure, certainly, though with your usual inaccuracies and
broad-stroke description, you are making no sense.

I noted it was the FDA and the AMA. You have a triad working here. FDA,
AMA and pharmaceutical manufacturers.

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By the way, it is only recently that statins have been proven to
reduce plaque, so what drugs are you talking about the drug companies
trying to protect at some time in the past?

Good question. I'll see if I can retrieve it.

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Ultrasound is certainly used to visualize plaque. The whole thing you
are talking about is absurd. Nothing removes plaque in any
"permanent" way. If lifestyle and pre-disposition still exist, it can
re-deposit. Of course angioplasty is not entirely safe. Neither would
your suctioning system. You go into heart arteries & you have an
inherently dangerous procedure.

Permanet was probably a bad choice of words. But it did remove plaque
rather than merely compress it. And I suppose iof proper steps were taken
afterwards it would not return or to nearly as severe a degree.

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Then we have the case of marijuana. Here is a plant that has proven

medical

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benefits. It treats glaucoma, it alleviates severe nausea in chemo
patients, it has been shown to be an effective anti-depressant, it has
helped cure fibromyalgia, it has shown promise in helping patients with
chronic pain syndrome. And the list goes on. Yet it is not even

considered

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as a potential therapy because everything it does is also done by

incredibly

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expensive drugs already on the market many of which do no perform nearly

as

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well as marijuana does. The drug companies have the most lobbyists in
Washington and this is no coincidence.

No one doubts the efficacy of marijuana in certain medical cases you
twit. The Feds will not allow it to be reclassified. Go smoke a big
one & perhaps the clarity will come to you in a pipe dream.

I don't smoke dope. But marijuana does work. And if "no one" doubts it
then why are we decades away from it being approved? We know the Feds won't
reclassify it and that was my point. I've been arguing that big money
dictates public health and often that is neglected for money. You are the
twit if you can brush off pharmaceutical lobbying, hundreds of millions a
year in loibbying costs, not to mention millions given in legal bribes to
politicians and still live in your little secure world safe from any fears
that maybe something isn't quite right.

And being a secretary in a hospital does not make you an authority.

Paul

Quoted message said:

Boron

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:10:41 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

I'm sorry. Really. I tried. I posted facts. I posted citations that
corroborated the facts. I posted more facts and more corroboration.

You keep babbling on as if you are in some sort of hyperactive lying
contest. The whoppers get bigger and bigger as if the more you
reiterate the same lie, somehow it will become fact. It won't.

YOU are wrong.

YOU are misinformed.

YOU do not know what you are talking about.

YOU are out of your depth.

Go make yourself a nice cup of tea. Take a pill. Get a grip on
reality.

Tie that tinfoil tiara on real tight, Tootsie, as I am tossing you
into the Bozo Bin.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Boron

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:11:46 -0400, Stan Horwitz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <y5Q7f.16009$Io4.7733@trnddc06>,

Paul M. Cook said:

You presented not one fact. You provided an emotional reaction to a fact.
The fact being that the AMA suppressed a cure for ulcers for 20 years
because it would have had a direct and severe impact on the drug industry.
Even in the 1980s the cure rate from the treatment being employed in
Australia was in the 10s of thousands and nobody fied from taking bismuth
and a common antibiotic. Yet the AMA stonewalled.

Paul

That's interesting. How do you know this?

A little birdie told him...a cuckoo.

Boron

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 22:10:41 GMT, "Paul M. Cook"
<[email hidden]> wrote:

I'm sorry. Really. I tried. I posted facts. I posted citations that
corroborated the facts. I posted more facts and more corroboration.

You posted a date. That is about it.

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You keep babbling on as if you are in some sort of hyperactive lying
contest. The whoppers get bigger and bigger as if the more you
reiterate the same lie, somehow it will become fact. It won't.

YOU are wrong.

YOU are misinformed.

YOU do not know what you are talking about.

YOU are out of your depth.

Quoted message said:

Go make yourself a nice cup of tea. Take a pill. Get a grip on
reality.

Tie that tinfoil tiara on real tight, Tootsie, as I am tossing you
into the Bozo Bin.

Supposedly I was already in the bozo bin.

OK, fine. The phramaceuticals don't lobby politicians and spend about 250
million bucks a year doing it. Drugs never make it onto the market that
kill, are withdrawn and then 2 days later released again after the CEO of
the manufacturer has a private chat with some selected senators. Never
happens. Alternative treatments are never withheld because drug company
profits are at risk. We would never see drug companies lobbying for
complete immunity from vaccine defects. There is no link between thymerisol
and autism - just 50,000 "anecdotal" cases.

Anyone who believes otherwise is a tin-foil hat compsiracy theorist.

What is Santa bringing you this year?

Paul

"Boron Elgar" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 14:11:46 -0400, Stan Horwitz <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <y5Q7f.16009$Io4.7733@trnddc06>,

Paul M. Cook said:

You presented not one fact. You provided an emotional reaction to a

fact.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The fact being that the AMA suppressed a cure for ulcers for 20 years
because it would have had a direct and severe impact on the drug

industry.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Even in the 1980s the cure rate from the treatment being employed in
Australia was in the 10s of thousands and nobody fied from taking

bismuth

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

and a common antibiotic. Yet the AMA stonewalled.

Paul

That's interesting. How do you know this?

A little birdie told him...a cuckoo.

I'm still waiting for the facts and figures you keep referring to which so
far seem to be nothing more than your opinion.

Paul