Cleaning my frame.

On Thu, 21 Aug 2003 22:16:16 +0000, Fraggle did issue forth:

Quoted message said:

I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
the grease and grunge!

I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.

From reading the bottle it sounds quite aggresive (you have to wash it off within a minute or so,
it does not list the dire consequences if you dont, but....) Not the sort of thing you want in
your chain or mech, however with the spray gun nozzle i bet it goes everywhere.

Muc Off is really agressive stuff. If you wash it off within about 30 seconds of spraying it on,
it's not so bad though.

For what you're doing, I'd recommend alcohol, as it'll clean any surface grease off and will
evaporate leaving no residue.

Huw "Try a nice chianti" Pritchard

Fraggle said:

I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
the grease and grunge!

I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.

I bought some a while back (only 'cause it was on special offer) and have not been very impressed.
Yeah, it's okay, but for the price they charge I'd want it to actually clean and buff the bike for
me. I won't be buying any again, think I'll try car shampoo next. Mix some up in the empty Muc-Off
bottle and pre-spray with that, should work with general road grime...

Quoted message said:

Anyone got any feelings that is a bad idea? maybe fairy liquid is just as good?

Probably do just fine for the job you have, gotta be worth trying before splashing out on the Muc
Off. You could also use white spirit.

Incidently, if you want more reflective strips, the Northants road safety web shoppy do them very
cheaply. Loads of different colours, 20p for a 10cm x 3cm strip.

shopcreator.comproduct 69745.stmOpen ↗

I've got two reflective bands around each front fork leg of my hack and it's very visible in
headlights.

Bob
--
Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage

Fraggle said:

I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
the grease and grunge!

Or because your not sticking them on properly. 99% of adhesives nowadays are pressure sensitive
acrylic adhesives , rather than the tacky petroleum based gums of yesteryear. The key word is
PRESSURE sensitive, once you have a clean substrate you need to apply your strips with presutre to
break the little bubbles of suspended adhesive on the rear surface, a hard but rounded edge like a
CD case is ideal for this. The reflective stuff you have bought is likely to be 7/10 year life
adhesive ( We supply lots of it to Merseyside police) and onto a clean surface with proper
application will last well beyond that time.

[email hidden] (Marc) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Fraggle said:

I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
the grease and grunge!

Or because your not sticking them on properly. 99% of adhesives nowadays are pressure sensitive
..... clean substrate ....a clean surface with proper application will last well beyond that time.

Thanks for the advice, They do stick better with increased pressure, I used my parks tool 🙂 However
without a "clean substrate" the edges don't stay down even as I watch!

just ordered Hope Sh1t Shifter Cleaner from wiggle, ah impulse buying on the internet I love it!

Fragg

"Fraggle" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I got some little sticky reflective strips from halfords, but they wont stick to my frame due to
the grease and grunge!

I guess I am going to buy some of that pink "muc off" or similar stuff.

From reading the bottle it sounds quite aggresive (you have to wash it off within a minute or so,
it does not list the dire consequences if you dont, but....) Not the sort of thing you want in
your chain or mech, however

with

Quoted message said:

the spray gun nozzle i bet it goes everywhere.

Anyone got any feelings that is a bad idea? maybe fairy liquid is just as good?

Thanks for your thoughts

Fragg

Having used Muc Off to clean customers' bikes as well as my own bikes, motorcycles and parts of the
car, I rate it. It won't matter if it gets in your chain and cassette as you've already cleaned
those parts with a biodegradeable degreaser such as Ecotec... haven't you??

Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never use it
on your car either.

--
Adam Dugmore

Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling

Quoted message said:

Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never use
it on your car either.

I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork on
any of my bikes.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never
use it on your car either.

I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
on any of my bikes.

Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very tight
fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

--
Adam Dugmore

Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling

Adam Dugmore tried to scribble ...

Quoted message said:

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork, hence never
use it on your car either.

I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
on any of my bikes.

Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

Jet wash .. £39.95 and it cleans the Landrover and the patio too.

Course, it also removes [censored] paint like it wasn't even there too ....😉

--
Digweed

Adam Dugmore said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork

I would be interested in learning where that information comes from, what salts and paint it relates
to exactly, and what exactly is meant by "wrecked". What do the frames end up looking like?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the paintwork
on any of my bikes.

Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

Why would I want to do that? I only use a specialist product (if you can call it that) for dishes
because it is cheap and it works. It also happens to work on bike frames and a million other things.

Quoted message said:

It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

Maybe they are "tight fisted" because they invest all their bike budget into parts and accessories
that really matter and have got none left to waste on vastly overpriced cosmetics. Not everyone has
unlimited funds.

I find it funny that people worry that much about bike paintwork - which is actually very hard to
damage anyway with any mild cleaning product.

~PB

"Pete Biggs" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Adam Dugmore said:

Quoted message said:

> Can't recommend Fairy liquid - it contains salts which will wreck your paintwork

I would be interested in learning where that information comes from, what salts and paint it
relates to exactly, and what exactly is meant by "wrecked". What do the frames end up
looking like?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I find that hard to believe. A mild solution of washing up liquid has never damaged the
paintwork on any of my bikes.

Your bike, your call. Would you do your dishes with car shampoo, though? Though not.

Why would I want to do that? I only use a specialist product (if you can call it that) for
dishes because it is cheap and it works. It also happens to work on bike frames and a million
other things.

Quoted message said:

It makes me laugh the amounts people will spend on a bike or a car, but suddenly they get very
tight fisted when it comes to cleaning products.

Maybe they are "tight fisted" because they invest all their bike budget into parts and accessories
that really matter and have got none left to waste on vastly overpriced cosmetics. Not everyone
has unlimited funds.

I find it funny that people worry that much about bike paintwork - which is actually very hard to
damage anyway with any mild cleaning product.

Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be washing
any of my bikes.

--
Adam Dugmore

Kawasaki ZZR-600 - Purple! Honda CB500R - Dead and gone... Kona Explosif - Sparkling

Adam Dugmore said:

Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be
washing any of my bikes.

It's not just about your bikes and my bikes is it? As this is a public newsgroup, it should be about
discussing what is and isn't suitable to use on bike paintwork in general. More evidence and
technical data may help others decide on what products to use. Further information on salts in
washing-up liquid would be interesting.

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Adam Dugmore said:

Like I said, your bike, your call. I don't much care what you use as you're not going to be
washing any of my bikes.

It's not just about your bikes and my bikes is it? As this is a public newsgroup, it should be
about discussing what is and isn't suitable to use on bike paintwork in general. More evidence and
technical data may help others decide on what products to use. Further information on salts in
washing-up liquid would be interesting.

The only really good solid fact I can find with a quick trawl with Google is that in Sweden, there
is a limit of 1.5% salt in washing up liquid if it is to carry the "Good Environmental Choice"
label. Source: snf.sebmv kem cleaninga crit.pdfOpen ↗ This rather suggests there may
be washing up liquids with salt content in a range around this figure. Ecover, for example, state
that salt is among ingredients making up 5% of its washing up liquid.

Salt is used to thicken washing up liquid (and lots of other detergent based products - check your
cheap shampoo bottle in the bathroom!), so if you are going to clean bikes with it, use a thin
runny one.

Apart from the corrosion issue with metals, salt will also attack (albeit usually slowly) many types
of paint, particularly clear surface coats. This isn't easy to corroborate on the web, but ask
anyone who has a seafaring boat.

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Jim Price said:

The only really good solid fact I can find with a quick trawl with Google is that in Sweden, there
is a limit of 1.5% salt in washing up liquid if it is to carry the "Good Environmental Choice"
label. Source: snf.sebmv kem cleaninga crit.pdfOpen ↗ This rather suggests there may
be washing up liquids with salt content in a range around this figure. Ecover, for example, state
that salt is among ingredients making up 5% of its washing up liquid.

Salt is used to thicken washing up liquid (and lots of other detergent based products - check your
cheap shampoo bottle in the bathroom!), so if you are going to clean bikes with it, use a thin
runny one.

Apart from the corrosion issue with metals, salt will also attack (albeit usually slowly) many
types of paint, particularly clear surface coats. This isn't easy to corroborate on the web, but
ask anyone who has a seafaring boat.

Surely there's a world of difference between a boat continually floating in sea water and a bike
frame getting the occasional wash with *diluted* washing-up liquid?

~PB

How does the salt compare to the potassium hydroxide in muc-off?

cheers, clive

Pete Biggs said:

Surely there's a world of difference between a boat continually floating in sea water and a bike
frame getting the occasional wash with *diluted* washing-up liquid?

Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of difference,
the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while, as the effects of the sea are really
extreme. If you left your bike in the sea for a month, it would be corroded so badly it may not be
worth fishing it out again. In the canal would be a different thing, and you might get it working
with a good clean and lube, and maybe new bearings all round. I'd add another tip if you're going to
use washing up liquid - wash it again with clean water afterwards, because any of the salt left
behind gets to do its dirty work over potentially quite a long time if you leave any smears.

None of the effects of salt are going to dissolve your bike right in front of your eyes the minute
you finish washing it, but that doesn't make it a good thing to use on your bike on a regular basis.

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Jim Price said:

Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of
difference, the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while

What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

~PB

Pete Biggs said:

Jim Price said:

Yep. About the same difference as there is between your boat being constantly in the sea and
occaisionally riding your bike through salted slush in the winter. Even with a world of
difference, the effect on your bike may still be noticable after a while

What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

And how long is a piece of string? It will depend on the chemistry between any deposits from the
cleaning materials and your paintwork/exposed metalwork, and then on how long it is before you next
ride in the rain etc. etc. I have no details on any of that, so it would be GIGO to comment exactly.
Take your chances with a "while", or just take the easy option and avoid applying salt to your bike.

--
Jim Price

jimprice.dsl.pipex.comjimprice.dsl.pipex.comOpen ↗

Conscientious objection is hard work in an economic war.

Pete Biggs said:

What are the effects exactly and how much of a while?

Can't give you exact figures, but I've seen moving parts on aluminium climbing gear seize completely
solid after a brief dip in seawater and not getting a comprehensive clean ASAP. Being a sea kayaker
I see a lot of salt water effects on stuff, and it really does bugger up practically anything metal
it touches :-( Alloy tent poles travelling inside, which is more or less waterproof aside from the
odd drip, have been known to split on subsequent use if not well cleaned between trips. Salt in
solution will seep into any cracks and then crystals grow which seize moving parts as well as open
up cracks to let in more water and cause more corrosion.

When I had a car I never bothered washing it *except* a drive-through with underbody wash and wax in
winter after any long drive with salted roads. My car might have been in a general state of
component decay, but the bodywork was fine.

From what I've seen salt really is worth avoiding as much as you can. I usually clean my frames
with an old rag and elbow grease, with a little GT85 to help clean off stubborn muck (it seems to
work and I've got the can there for general lube at the same time).

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email hidden]
dundee.ac.uk~pjclinchOpen ↗

Rhubarb is poisonous.

~PB