nearly stolen bike

Michael Klontzas said:

Now the problem is that because the d-lock was so abused, I couldn't
unlock it and when I called 999 and the local police station basically
they told me it was my problem. So, I had to leave it there for the rest
of the night and assuming that it is still there in the morning (which is
debatable, particularly as the rear wheel is unsecured) I suppose I
should contact an ironmonger (there is one right across the street!), get
them to cut through my d-lock with an angle grinder, release what's left
of the bike and take it to a bike shop for assessment etc.

Condolances. Having a bike stolen or vandalised is more traumatic
than being rejected by the girl you love.

Will you tell us whether or not anyone challenges you or the
ironmonger when you take an angle grinder to the lock?

I have a theory that to steal a van full of bikes, a couple of people,
dressed in hi-vis jackets, armed with angle grinders, could turn up at
any bike park and nick the lot without anyone questioning them.

Michael Klontzas said:

Now the problem is that because the d-lock was so abused, I couldn't
unlock it and when I called 999 and the local police station basically
they told me it was my problem.

I suspect in part because you used 999 for an non-emergency situation.

So, I had to leave it there for the rest

Quoted message said:

of the night and assuming that it is still there in the morning (which is
debatable, particularly as the rear wheel is unsecured) I suppose I
should contact an ironmonger (there is one right across the street!), get
them to cut through my d-lock with an angle grinder, release what's left
of the bike and take it to a bike shop for assessment etc.

Now I am wondering:

a) what are the chances of the frame/fork being repaired? Or is it a
write-off? I believe that dented aluminium frames are not safe.
b) has any anyone had a similar experience with an ironmonger? Would they
do that (at a reasonable cost)? A friend told me he had to do it himself
once and it was remarkably easy -- I wish his angle grinder didn't need
to be plugged to the mains.
c) any other suggestions?
d) why would anyone try to steal a bike that is going to be seriously
damaged and become worthless in the process?

Take some photographs, contact Squire to ask what they suggest and the
insurance company to see if they will accept the photographs as evidence
so you don't have to recover it. If they will, strip the frame of
anything useful and leave it locked up. Someone will remove it
eventually If they won't and its a write off, its much easier to cut
the frame than the lock - a hacksaw will do the job.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

d) why would anyone try to steal a bike that is going to be seriously
damaged and become worthless in the process?

Because it can!

Thieves and the assorted scum do not think like you. If it is there
and there is a chance of stealing it then it 'must' be stolen! Failing
that it 'must' be damaged to deprive you of something that said
assorted scum could never legitimately buy.

It's sad but that's my view on it. My best bike is only ridden and
never locked anywhere (save in the shed). If I go somewhere where I
know I have to leave the bike unattended, but still locked, for some
time then I go on my skip-saved hack bike.

You have my sympathy. I had a similar experience in 1978, before D-Locks
were around. I had locked frame and one wheel to signpost and other
wheel to frame.

I returned to find frame and both wheels bent, but locks intact. The
bike was an obvious write-off.

I managed to salvage many components.

It is *horrible* to return to a wreck of what was once your pride and
joy. I's rather return to nothing, or a wrecked lock (as has happened
three times) and buy a shiny new mount; sometimes you can lock a bike
too well...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

nobody760 said:

d) why would anyone try to steal a bike that is going to be seriously
damaged and become worthless in the process?

Because it can!

Someone tried nicking my pitched tent from a campsite in North Wales.
It's one of those with bendy poles and the idiots didn't know how to
take it down. In the process of trying to steal it they ripped the
flysheet, lost to the wind or nicked the ground sheet, tore the floor
of the inner and bent the poles. The only recoverable parts were the
pegs! My sleeping bag and other items inside the tent were strewn
across the campsite.

Michael Klontzas said:

I returned to my bike a couple of hours ago to find out that some %£%£^%
had tried to steal it unsuccessfully. They cut the cable lock securing
rear wheel and frame against the rails, and then turned the whole frame,
trying to twist the d-lock by using the bottom tube as a lever. Amazingly
enough, the Squire d-lock that secured front wheel and frame against a
rail didn't give up, probably because they couldn't rotate the frame by
more than 45 degrees. They gave up but the fat aluminium tube is now
dented, the front fork is a bit bent and the front wheel is somewhat
buckled.

Now the problem is that because the d-lock was so abused, I couldn't
unlock it and when I called 999 and the local police station basically
they told me it was my problem. So, I had to leave it there for the rest
of the night and assuming that it is still there in the morning (which is
debatable, particularly as the rear wheel is unsecured) I suppose I
should contact an ironmonger (there is one right across the street!), get
them to cut through my d-lock with an angle grinder, release what's left
of the bike and take it to a bike shop for assessment etc.

Now I am wondering:

a) what are the chances of the frame/fork being repaired? Or is it a
write-off? I believe that dented aluminium frames are not safe.
b) has any anyone had a similar experience with an ironmonger? Would they
do that (at a reasonable cost)? A friend told me he had to do it himself
once and it was remarkably easy -- I wish his angle grinder didn't need
to be plugged to the mains.
c) any other suggestions?
d) why would anyone try to steal a bike that is going to be seriously
damaged and become worthless in the process?

As the bike is damaged (and assuming it's insured) it might be a
blessing if it gets nicked.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:04:08 +0000, Bertie Wiggins
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Someone tried nicking my pitched tent from a campsite in North Wales.
It's one of those with bendy poles and the idiots didn't know how to
take it down. In the process of trying to steal it they ripped the
flysheet, lost to the wind or nicked the ground sheet, tore the floor
of the inner and bent the poles. The only recoverable parts were the
pegs! My sleeping bag and other items inside the tent were strewn
across the campsite.

Little [censored] :-(

I'm very sorry to hear this. Which site was it?

Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:31:34 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:04:08 +0000, Bertie Wiggins
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Someone tried nicking my pitched tent from a campsite in North Wales.
It's one of those with bendy poles and the idiots didn't know how to
take it down. In the process of trying to steal it they ripped the
flysheet, lost to the wind or nicked the ground sheet, tore the floor
of the inner and bent the poles. The only recoverable parts were the
pegs! My sleeping bag and other items inside the tent were strewn
across the campsite.

Little [censored] :-(

I'm very sorry to hear this. Which site was it?

Dinas Mawddwy in the south, or just south of, the Snowdonia National
Park. It was a 1 month old Trango 3.1, not a cheap tent.

Bertie Wiggins said:

I have a theory that to steal a van full of bikes, a couple of
people, dressed in hi-vis jackets, armed with angle grinders,
could turn up at any bike park and nick the lot without anyone
questioning them.

A bit like the story my dad told me about a couple of guys who turned
up at the George hotel in Edinburgh. They told the receptionist that
they were there to take the carpet away for cleaning. It never came
back.
This was a 30 or 40 years ago.
--
the.Mark

Bertie Wiggins said:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:31:34 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:04:08 +0000, Bertie Wiggins
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]

Quoted message said:

Someone tried nicking my pitched tent from a campsite in North Wales.
It's one of those with bendy poles and the idiots didn't know how to
take it down. In the process of trying to steal it they ripped the
flysheet, lost to the wind or nicked the ground sheet, tore the floor
of the inner and bent the poles. The only recoverable parts were the
pegs! My sleeping bag and other items inside the tent were strewn
across the campsite.

Little [censored] :-(

I'm very sorry to hear this. Which site was it?

Dinas Mawddwy in the south, or just south of, the Snowdonia National
Park. It was a 1 month old Trango 3.1, not a cheap tent.

Were you in the tent when it happened?

--
Måns Rullgård
[email hidden]

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:07:50 +0000, Måns Rullgård <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Bertie Wiggins said:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:31:34 +0000, Peewiglet <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:04:08 +0000, Bertie Wiggins
<[email hidden]> wrote:

[...]
>Someone tried nicking my pitched tent from a campsite in North Wales.
>It's one of those with bendy poles and the idiots didn't know how to
>take it down. In the process of trying to steal it they ripped the
>flysheet, lost to the wind or nicked the ground sheet, tore the floor
>of the inner and bent the poles. The only recoverable parts were the
>pegs! My sleeping bag and other items inside the tent were strewn
>across the campsite.

Little [censored] :-(

I'm very sorry to hear this. Which site was it?

Dinas Mawddwy in the south, or just south of, the Snowdonia National
Park. It was a 1 month old Trango 3.1, not a cheap tent.

Were you in the tent when it happened?

I was in the pub.

Bertie Wiggins said:

Condolances. Having a bike stolen or vandalised is more traumatic
than being rejected by the girl you love.

Thanks

Quoted message said:

Will you tell us whether or not anyone challenges you or the
ironmonger when you take an angle grinder to the lock?

It took the ironmonger less than 5 mins to cut through the d-lock, and he
made a quick fiver. To answer your question, in a busy street nobody
challenged us at all. An they walked past people would stare at the
fireworks display produced by the angle grinder but nothing more. Only a
guy told me it would be faster and more subtle if I asked one of the
local youths to do it for me! I am not surprised though. Police and
ironmonger treated this kind of bike recovery as a routine matter. They
must know from experience that there won't be any complications with
people calling 999.

--
Michael Klontzas
'If everything seems to be coming your way,
you're probably in the wrong lane'
(Borstelmann's Rule)

nobody760 said:

Thieves and the assorted scum do not think like you. If it is there
and there is a chance of stealing it then it 'must' be stolen! Failing
that it 'must' be damaged to deprive you of something that said
assorted scum could never legitimately buy.

I had problems in the past with people apparently kicking or whatever my
previous bike while it was locked.

Quoted message said:

It's sad but that's my view on it. My best bike is only ridden and
never locked anywhere (save in the shed). If I go somewhere where I
know I have to leave the bike unattended, but still locked, for some
time then I go on my skip-saved hack bike.

Yes, I wish I had the space for multiple bikes too. Now, if I go for a
nice bike I feel it will be attacked within 4 months (like my current
one, which was only worth £400 new). I am not sure what kind of bike I
should go for next. Probably a cheap MTB sadly.

--
Michael Klontzas
'If everything seems to be coming your way,
you're probably in the wrong lane'
(Borstelmann's Rule)

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

You have my sympathy. I had a similar experience in 1978, before D-Locks
were around. I had locked frame and one wheel to signpost and other
wheel to frame.

I returned to find frame and both wheels bent, but locks intact. The
bike was an obvious write-off.

I managed to salvage many components.

It is *horrible* to return to a wreck of what was once your pride and
joy. I's rather return to nothing, or a wrecked lock (as has happened
three times) and buy a shiny new mount; sometimes you can lock a bike
too well...

I thought about that too. I believe that the reason they couldn't remove
the bike was because of my usual locking strategy. Crucially, the d-lock
was holding a fat aluminium down tube, the front wheel and a rail. This
means there wasn't much space for handling really, particularly as the
keyhole was as always on the other side of the rails and closer to the
spokes. It takes me a while to unlock it with the key! Also, the
handlebars were entangled in the rails so that rotating the bike was
almost impossible.

Knowing about the twisting-the-d-lock trick, I was thinking it would
perhaps be a better strategy to use the d-lock on the rear wheel instead,
since the tubes there are so much thinner and rotating the bike would
certainly make them snap. The assumption here is that noone in the right
mind would attempt this because the bike would quickly be rendered
worthless.

Both strategies fail to recognise that actually someone could be
irrational enough to have a go (and take certain risks), even if that
meant the frame would certainly be damaged beyond repair.

They were so determined to rotate the frame trying to twist the d-lock,
that they removed first what was standing in the way: a coil lock
(trivial, I know), the locked front wheel and the inside handlebar
extension.

All people who saw the bike agreed it is a write-off. The dent in the
down tube is small but as we all know aluminium doesn't like dents.
Perhaps it would be better if it was stolen. Now it will just be binned.

--
Michael Klontzas
Before enlightenment / chopping wood / carrying water
After enlightenment / chopping wood / carrying water
Zen Proverb

Zog The Undeniable said:

As the bike is damaged (and assuming it's insured) it might be a
blessing if it gets nicked.

I am not very familiar with the small print in this case. I am told there
is a home insurance in the name of my landlady. I understand that
typically such insurance covers bikes even if they are damaged/stolen
away from home. Soon I'll have the document in my hands and get a better
idea. I just hope they will acknowledge this is a write-off and offer to
replace it, in which case surely it is as if it was stolen, isn't it?

Thanks everyone for the replies.

--
Michael Klontzas
'If everything seems to be coming your way,
you're probably in the wrong lane'
(Borstelmann's Rule)

"Michael Klontzas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All people who saw the bike agreed it is a write-off. The dent in the
down tube is small but as we all know aluminium doesn't like dents.
Perhaps it would be better if it was stolen. Now it will just be binned.

How straight is the frame?

Provided it's not horribly twisted, I'd just ride it, and keep an eye out
for cracks. I wouldn't take it mountain biking, but for a hack bike it now
has the advantage that it looks a wreck.

cheers,
clive

Michael Klontzas said:

Yes, I wish I had the space for multiple bikes too. Now, if I go for a
nice bike I feel it will be attacked within 4 months (like my current
one, which was only worth £400 new). I am not sure what kind of bike I
should go for next. Probably a cheap MTB sadly.

A Brompton and take it with you to solve the problem.

--
Tony

"The best way I know of to win an argument is to start by being in the
right."
- Lord Hailsham

Michael Klontzas came up with the following;:

Quoted message said:

I returned to my bike a couple of hours ago to find out that some %£%£^%
had tried to steal it unsuccessfully.

....

Quoted message said:

They gave up but the fat aluminium tube is now
dented, the front fork is a bit bent and the front wheel is somewhat
buckled.

Commiserations. Far better, IMHO, to have it nicked completely than simply
wrecked.

Quoted message said:

Now the problem is that because the d-lock was so abused, I couldn't
unlock it and when I called 999 and the local police station basically
they told me it was my problem.

Quite right too. Calling 999 for this is absolutely crass and a complete
waste of Police time.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!

Clive George said:

"Michael Klontzas" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

All people who saw the bike agreed it is a write-off. The dent in the
down tube is small but as we all know aluminium doesn't like dents.
Perhaps it would be better if it was stolen. Now it will just be binned.

How straight is the frame?

Provided it's not horribly twisted, I'd just ride it, and keep an eye out
for cracks. I wouldn't take it mountain biking, but for a hack bike it now
has the advantage that it looks a wreck.

I am tempted to do just that, particularly now that I know the home
insurance policy doesn't cover the bike. To my inexperienced eyes it
doesn't look too bad: http://www.klontzas.com/bike/

and I don't ride hard anyway -- only on tarmac but there is always the
occasional pothole or hump, and thin-ish high pressure tyres don't absorb
much of the shock.

It could be wishful thinking but I get the impression people quote from
the textbook that aluminium just snaps without warning before they even
see the damage. Either that, or aluminium is a lot more brittle than I
could possibly imagine and I may end up in hospital.

The PC who came to my place for fingerprints today even suggested that
perhaps I could support the dented area with an outer tube or something!

--
Michael Klontzas
'If everything seems to be coming your way,
you're probably in the wrong lane'
(Borstelmann's Rule)