Replacing one spoke

Quoted message said:

When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is rounded,
is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any others? Will that
affect the other spokes and make it harder to true the wheel when the
new spoke is put in?

This question applies to both radially and 3-cross laced wheels.

If I need to, which spokes should I loosen before cutting?

Thanks,
jp

Should loosen spokes before putting the strain on the rim from just
cutting a spoke. ideally, loosen all the spokes all around, cut the
spoke and start over tensioning, rounding, truing, dishing.

OK, ideally, how much should I loosen the spokes all around: half a
turn, one turn, more?

Quoted message said:

OK, ideally, how much should I loosen the spokes all around: half a
turn, one turn, more?

Depends on how tight it is but a couple of turns each, with one turn
each spoke, all around, then another full turn...

Hi JP,

I would use a Vise-grip tightened on the spoke close to the nipple and
one on the nipple close to the rim (so it doesn't crush the nipple) and
back the nipple out. then you won't have to cut the spoke. The rim will
go out of true but will come back with the tightening of the new one. I
always use a Vise-grip when trueing to keep the spoke from turning.

Happy trails

1) If you're CUTTING a spoke you should always loosen the others.
2) If a spoke breaks just replace it and retension it to the others.

"Tom" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

1) If you're CUTTING a spoke you should always loosen the others.
2) If a spoke breaks just replace it and retension it to the others.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
So, this is my first question: How do the other spokes know whether the
spoke was cut or just broke? If it's necessary to release the tension
before cutting a spoke, how is it that riders replace broken spokes every
day with no apparent after effects?

Secondly, why would cutting vs loosening make a difference?

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Should loosen spokes before putting the strain on the rim from just
cutting a spoke. ideally, loosen all the spokes all around, cut the
spoke and start over tensioning, rounding, truing, dishing.

Why is cutting a spoke to replace it different from replacing a broken
spoke?

Jasper

Quoted message said:

When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is rounded,
is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any others? Will that
affect the other spokes and make it harder to true the wheel when the
new spoke is put in?

This question applies to both radially and 3-cross laced wheels.

I've never loosened the other spokes when replacing one, I don't see any
advantage to doing that. If your nipple is damaged, why not just replace
it with a new one on the existing spoke?

[email hidden said:

"]When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is rounded,
is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any others? Will that
affect the other spokes and make it harder to true the wheel when the
new spoke is put in?

This question applies to both radially and 3-cross laced wheels.

If I need to, which spokes should I loosen before cutting?

Thanks,
jp

Think of the forces applied to the other spokes, rim, and hub if that one spoke broke while riding.
Can they handle it?
If so, go ahead and cut, but be aware that the loose part of the spoke may shoot out like an arrow.
It may, however, be easier to lace in the "new" spoke in an interlaced wheel if you back off the tension on all spokes.
I understand the Jobst Brandt isn't positive towards Spokey or DT 3 sided spoke wrenches, but they do help prevent nipple rounding.
Proper lubrication at the threads and nipple head to rim hole (eyelet if there is one) is very important while building and also helps protect those areas during the life of the wheel.

Peter Chisholm said:

Quoted message said:

When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is
rounded, is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any
others? Will that affect the other spokes and make it harder to
true the wheel when the new spoke is put in?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This question applies to both radially and 3-cross laced wheels.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

If I need to, which spokes should I loosen before cutting?

Quoted message said:

Should loosen spokes before putting the strain on the rim from just
cutting a spoke. ideally, loosen all the spokes all around, cut the
spoke and start over tensioning, rounding, truing, dishing.

Don't mess with the other spokes or it will take twice as long to get
it back to where it was when the spoke is replaced. I would try to
get the spoke nipple off using pliers and pulling the rim toward the
side from which the spoke3 approached to slacken it.

Jobst Brandt

Dans le message de
news:[email hidden],
holio <[email hidden]> a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Quoted message said:

Hi JP,

I would use a Vise-grip tightened on the spoke close to the nipple and
one on the nipple close to the rim (so it doesn't crush the nipple)
and back the nipple out. then you won't have to cut the spoke. The
rim will go out of true but will come back with the tightening of the
new one. I always use a Vise-grip when trueing to keep the spoke from
turning.

Happy trails

If removing the spoke by releasing it from the nipple doesn't require
loosening other spokes, why does cutting have that requirement ? It seems
that there is no difference in slack in the result of either operation.

Quoted message said:

When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is rounded,
is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any others?

Does a wheel explode when a spoke breaks? No. So cutting one won't
make the wheel go kablooie either. (Okay, it might with one of those
idiotic 16-spoke wheels, but you've got something that's designed to
be ridden instead of looked at, right?)

If you have to cut it, do so. OTOH, I find that a few seconds of heat
from a lighter flame, followed by vigorous application of vice-grips,
often loosens even badly stuck nipples. If nothing else works,
though, the cutters are your friend. If the tire and spoke cover band
have been removed, and if there's still appreciable tension on the
spoke, put a rag over the rim to catch the nipple popping out.

Quoted message said:

Will that
affect the other spokes and make it harder to true the wheel when the
new spoke is put in?

The only problem is physical; getting the new spoke fished into place
is sometimes a minor pain in the neck. You didn't really think that
everyone relaced a wheel just to replace a busted spoke, did you?
(Yes, I'm aware that there are people who do just that. This does not
make it necessary.)

Quoted message said:

This question applies to both radially and 3-cross laced wheels.

Radial spoking makes single-spoke replacement a breeze. Cross makes a
better wheel IME, though.

Quoted message said:

If I need to, which spokes should I loosen before cutting?

None, in my opinion. The repair will also be faster that way since
there will be fewer spokes in need of tweaking to get the wheel trued,
assuming it was reasonably close to begin with.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

I am surprised how much difference of opinion there is on this issue.
Ranging from loosen a lot of spokes before doing it to just cut it.

From a physical arguement, the only different I see between cutting the
spoke and breaking the spoke while riding is that there is load placed on
the wheel while the spoke breaks. I am not sure which is better, no load or
load?

Secondly, if load is placed on the wheel, and indeed wheels hang by their
spoke, the loading, i suspect will break the spoke, which will even put a
larger stress on the area of spoke breakage...

Am I wrong?

David

"david" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am surprised how much difference of opinion there is on this issue.
Ranging from loosen a lot of spokes before doing it to just cut it.

From a physical arguement, the only different I see between cutting the
spoke and breaking the spoke while riding is that there is load placed on
the wheel while the spoke breaks. I am not sure which is better, no load

or

Quoted message said:

load?

Secondly, if load is placed on the wheel, and indeed wheels hang by their
spoke, the loading, i suspect will break the spoke, which will even put a
larger stress on the area of spoke breakage...

Am I wrong?

If a spoke breaks on you, you don't usually get the luxury of loosening
adjacent ones first. But the replacements usually go in just fine. I doubt
cutting would be any different from breaking.

But why not just replace the nipple? Other suggestions here say back it
off with pliers - or why not get a screwdriver onto the top?

Quoted message said:

When replacing just one spoke one a wheel when the nipple is rounded,
is it ok to just cut the spoke without loosening any others? Will that
affect the other spokes and make it harder to true the wheel when the
new spoke is put in?

When I am out riding and a spoke decides to "cut itself", I just
unscrew the busted piece, open my brakes, and keep going. When I get
home (or to a bike shop), I stick a new spoke in, tighten it up until
the wheel is true again... and that's it.

I don't see how cutting a single spoke at home would hurt anything.

On Tue, 6 Dec 2005 14:37:36 -0500, "david" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I am surprised how much difference of opinion there is on this issue.
Ranging from loosen a lot of spokes before doing it to just cut it.

Yup. Not uncommon for the opinions to differ. (The all-time champion
subjects for this (IIRC) are helmets pro/con, whether the load on the
wheel hangs from the upper spokes or stands on the lower ones or isn't
described by either of those, and chain lubrication and cleaning
substances and techniques. The ordering may vary.)

Quoted message said:

From a physical arguement, the only different I see between cutting the
spoke and breaking the spoke while riding is that there is load placed on
the wheel while the spoke breaks. I am not sure which is better, no load or
load?

Well, that all depends. If the spoke breaks aywhere except while it's
pointing straight at the road surface or close to it, then the spoke's
under essentially its rest tension when it breaks; little or no
difference from getting cut during repair. If it's pointing straight
down, the tension is less due to the load on the wheel. If it's one
spoke off of the contact point, the tension is actually higher than at
rest. I don't know if anyone has ever actually captured the data for
what position in the wheel's rotation accounts for the majority of
spoke failures, but I'd expect it to be just aft of the road contact
point, in the position where the loading pulses to its highest point
just after dropping to its lowest.

Quoted message said:

Secondly, if load is placed on the wheel, and indeed wheels hang by their
spoke,

Oh, please, let's not get into *that* one again.

Quoted message said:

the loading, i suspect will break the spoke, which will even put a
larger stress on the area of spoke breakage...

The loading of the rim is distributed over many spokes. Breaking one
out of 32 or 36 isn't that big of a deal. It becomes a more serious
issue when the spoke count drops. It has often been reported here
that with a single spoke broken, 20-spoke and 16-spoke wheels can
become so wobbly as to make the bike unridable. Even then, the wheel
seldom takes any permanent damage; replacing the spoke and retruing
the wheel returns it to service in nearly every instance unless
something else acts to distort the wheel. (In the one case I've seen
in which a 16-spoke wheel tacoed when a spoke failed, the bike's owner
admitted having overtensioned all of the spokes in an attempt to
"make the wheel stiffer" because a friend had told him this was a neat
thing to do. He was lucky. The spoke failed as soon as he got on the
bike.)

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Werehatrack said:

Yup. Not uncommon for the opinions to differ. (The all-time champion
subjects for this (IIRC) are helmets pro/con, whether the load on the
wheel hangs from the upper spokes or stands on the lower ones or isn't
described by either of those, and chain lubrication and cleaning
substances and techniques. The ordering may vary.)

Helmets and chains? People really post about those things here? I
thought that was limited to rec.bicycles.misc ! 🙂

Ken
--
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

Ken M said:

Werehatrack said:

Yup. Not uncommon for the opinions to differ. (The all-time champion
subjects for this (IIRC) are helmets pro/con, whether the load on the
wheel hangs from the upper spokes or stands on the lower ones or isn't
described by either of those, and chain lubrication and cleaning
substances and techniques. The ordering may vary.)

Helmets and chains? People really post about those things here? I
thought that was limited to rec.bicycles.misc ! 🙂

Greasing tapers, on the other hand....

Ron

Quoted message said:

Don't mess with the other spokes or it will take twice as long to get
it back to where it was when the spoke is replaced. I would try to
get the spoke nipple off using pliers and pulling the rim toward the
side from which the spoke3 approached to slacken it.

Jobst Brandt

I'd try a screw driver on the nipple first. Sometimes that works.
Sometimes, one of those spoke wrenches with 3 flats work when a 2
sided wrench doesn't.