Which will it be Iran? Off the Map/back to

ptlwp said:

Europe.

I have to say that the folks in Iran seem so confused these days, as any other day.

Not many of them tbh. The man with the mic is out of his depth.

ptlwp said:

This is getting confusing. I am not sure that any of this real estate is for sale.

The lack of for sale signs stopped the Zionists. If in doubt shoot or deport the owner. They could certainly try that in Austria, it would be interesting to see how far they got with the 1947 style approach.

ptlwp said:

Since when does Iran get to speak for the middle east, first of all, and secondly, why is everyone, all of a sudden so shocked? Is everyone afraid of a big land grab or something?

tsk tsk

The Iranian dude is clearly the GWB style choice. Bad move Iran, but they're stuck with the idiot for the while. Much in the same way the Israelis and Palestinians are stuck with Sharon and "Cease fire - not" Mofaz.

darkboong said:

Not many of them tbh. The man with the mic is out of his depth.

The lack of for sale signs stopped the Zionists. If in doubt shoot or deport the owner. They could certainly try that in Austria, it would be interesting to see how far they got with the 1947 style approach.

The Iranian dude is clearly the GWB style choice. Bad move Iran, but they're stuck with the idiot for the while. Much in the same way the Israelis and Palestinians are stuck with Sharon and "Cease fire - not" Mofaz.

A George Bush for every country, my friends!!! We got 2.5 or so years left. (our intelligence wasn't intelligent (neither was our president), but even he, didn't talk about wiping any of the axis of evil "off the map".

Get it through your head, for once and for all; the Zionists were "going home" not shooting nor deporting anyone, 'til things got real ugly.

[censored] was an Austrian but the Nazi's were German, so many places, how can one choose?

ptlwp said:

A George Bush for every country, my friends!!! We got 2.5 or so years left. (our intelligence wasn't intelligent (neither was our president), but even he, didn't talk about wiping any of the axis of evil "off the map".

Get it through your head, for once and for all; the Zionists were "going home" not shooting nor deporting anyone, 'til things got real ugly.

[censored] was an Austrian but the Nazi's were German, so many places, how can one choose?

The Austrians also were Nazi's .... Some of the worse,if the distinction could be made for "I'm a badder nazi then you are."

ptlwp said:

Europe.

I have to say that the folks in Iran seem so confused these days, as any other day.

I think you're referring to the comments made by President Ahamadinijad (hope that spelling is correct).

To assume that his view reflects the entire Iranian view is naive.

ptlwp said:

First they want to have Israel wiped off the map. Then they decide the holocaust is at best "a hoax" and if it were true,

The Germans setup concentration camps where they murdered Jew, homosexuals, Soviets, Europeans in their tens of millions

ptlwp said:

Europe.

why send surviving victims down to the mideast? Keep them (Jews) in Europe from whence they came, says Prez.

I agree with the view that the Jews should have been repatriated to their country of origin.
Why should they be sent to a region where they have no connection?
These people were mostly Europeans - they should have been repatriated to Europe.

Moving them to Alaska or Palestine - places to which they have no connection - would be unfair to the indigenous population and indeed to the survivors.

ptlwp said:

Europe.

Indeed, can Israel annex part of Switzerland, Austria, Germany/and or France?

Or, should Canada, the USA or Australia give up some prime real estate?

This is getting confusing. I am not sure that any of this real estate is for sale.

Since when does Iran get to speak for the middle east, first of all, and secondly, why is everyone, all of a sudden so shocked? Is everyone afraid of a big land grab or something?

tsk tsk

I don't think that anywhere should have been annexed : they should have been returned to their original locations and provided with financial assistance.

I think that the Iranian President is correct in stating that the "solution" arrived at by relocating the Jewish survivors to Palestine has only created more problems.

I don't agree that the Iranians Presidents view about the concentration camps being a hoax.
The records show that millions of gypsies, homosexuals, mentally handicapped people, soviet people and Jews were murdered in the concentration camps.

ptlwp said:

Get it through your head, for once and for all; the Zionists were "going home" not shooting nor deporting anyone, 'til things got real ugly.

They weren't "going home", they didn't even have homes to go to there, so they simply took them by violence. Home was Europe, they are white colonialists. In the end it was they who made things "real ugly" by your own admission, it wasn't something that magically happened by accident. It was a deliberate pre-meditated campaign of terror and violence to drive out the people who lived there. You want some more Ben "Kill the women and children" Gurion quotes ?

It's interesting that Iran hasn't offered to embrace the Palestinians and allow them to settle in their boundaries.
I guess it will be unpleasant but I think there must be some Europeans who will possibly support Israel's view Iran cannot be allowed to possess WMD:

"On 21 September 2004 Israel acknowledged that it was buying 500 BLU-109 bunker-buster bombs, which could be used to destroy Iran's nuclear facilities. The bombs, which can penetrate more than 7 feet of reinforced concrete, are part of a $319 million package of air-launched bombs.
The German magazine Der Spiegel reported in October 2004 that Israel had completed plans for a pre-emptive strike against Iran's nuclear facilities. Der Spiegel reported that a special unit of the Mossad had received order in July 2004 to prepare a detailed plan, which had been delivered to the Israeli Air Force. The source for the report, an IAF pilot, said the plan to take out Iran's nuclear sites was "complex, yet manageable." Israel's plan assumes that Iran has six nuclear sites, all of which would be attacked simultaneously."

darkboong said:

They weren't "going home", they didn't even have homes to go to there, so they simply took them by violence. Home was Europe, they are white colonialists. In the end it was they who made things "real ugly" by your own admission, it wasn't something that magically happened by accident. It was a deliberate pre-meditated campaign of terror and violence to drive out the people who lived there. You want some more Ben "Kill the women and children" Gurion quotes ?

Hebrews were going home to the promised land; the land of milk and honey, but no oil....hummmmmm......but a promise is a promise.

ptlwp said:

Hebrews were going home to the promised land; the land of milk and honey, but no oil....hummmmmm......but a promise is a promise.

No one was stopping them, promise or otherwise. The fact is that they kicked out the people already living there, which was not part of this mythical "promise", non-legally binding promise that has been used by the religious fundamentalists to justify the murder and dispossesion of innocents.

Get this into your thick skull : I don't buy the "promised" line from pious maniacs like you and I never will. If they had title deeds and a sun-tan I might have given more credence to the idea that the Palestinians didn't belong there. As it turns out they just raped, killed and bulldozed their way through village after village and that has not stopped and it bloody well should stop.

The Palestinian Arabs are the descendents of post Roman immigrants of Turkish, Arab and Iranian blood and in some cases may be converted Jews. They are the offspring of invaders - people who ethnically cleansed Jews in ancient times.
They are not, as they claim to be, direct descendents of the Philistines of ancient times. The modern Palestinians conquered the land they now live in and displaced Jews. They ethnically cleansed Jewish people who then migrated elsewhere.

darkboong said:

No one was stopping them, promise or otherwise. The fact is that they kicked out the people already living there, which was not part of this mythical "promise", non-legally binding promise that has been used by the religious fundamentalists to justify the murder and dispossesion of innocents.

Get this into your thick skull : I don't buy the "promised" line from pious maniacs like you and I never will. If they had title deeds and a sun-tan I might have given more credence to the idea that the Palestinians didn't belong there. As it turns out they just raped, killed and bulldozed their way through village after village and that has not stopped and it bloody well should stop.

Carrera said:

The Palestinian Arabs are the descendents of post Roman immigrants of Turkish, Arab and Iranian blood and in some cases may be converted Jews. They are the offspring of invaders - people who ethnically cleansed Jews in ancient times.
They are not, as they claim to be, direct descendents of the Philistines of ancient times. The modern Palestinians conquered the land they now live in and displaced Jews. They ethnically cleansed Jewish people who then migrated elsewhere.

Get it through your thick skull.........they RAN and left because they were AFRAID of the STUPID RUMORS that some kind of MASS slaughter was going to be done and this was disinformation and WASNOT going to happen.

THEY ABANDONED THEIR PROPERTY ON THEIR OWN OF THEIR OWN ACCORD.

There WAS a first temple....there was a second temple....both were destroyed. There was Masada; this is fact and history and you thick ones who cannot understand the right to return to property that was stolen and ruined by Romans and whatever.............happy Channukah.........Judas Maccabee purified the temple with oil, in Jerusalem which had been defiled with idols and Roman trash, pagan idol worshipprers, many of whom, still are today!!!!!!!

I don't know anyone who can prove there is a G-d or that there isn't a G-d. The Jews feel that since the Balfour Declaration was made in 1948, that the land of Israel was rightfully returned to them after years of laying fallow and barren, the Israeli's were able to turn it into a place with groves of oranges and all types of great things.

Coveting thy neighbors goods is a bad thing. The Arabs should make peace an get on with life, and try to live decently and each of them whomever, should stop the fighting......that will happen when the messiah comes; or returns, depending upon your belief.

Anti-Jews will not ever change. Jews will be scapegoats to eternity or until the Messiah comes and are prepared for such.

Carrera said:

The Palestinian Arabs are the descendents of post Roman immigrants of Turkish, Arab and Iranian blood and in some cases may be converted Jews. They are the offspring of invaders - people who ethnically cleansed Jews in ancient times.

Clearly untrue because Jews have *always* lived in that area, alongside Gentiles. It appears that you can't grasp the concept of Jews living alongside other people (visit Stamford Hill if you want direct evidence).

Carrera said:

They are not, as they claim to be, direct descendents of the Philistines of ancient times. The modern Palestinians conquered the land they now live in and displaced Jews. They ethnically cleansed Jewish people who then migrated elsewhere.

Utter rubbish, the proof is in the fact that Jews have *always* lived in that region. Ethnic cleansing either didn't happen or it failed outright. The Palestinians and native Jewish population have substantially similar genetic makeup... Clearly you can't accept that the only difference between a Jew and a Gentile is their creed.

ptlwp said:

I don't know anyone who can prove there is a G-d or that there isn't a G-d. The Jews feel that since the Balfour Declaration was made in 1948, that the land of Israel was rightfully returned to them after years of laying fallow and barren, the Israeli's were able to turn it into a place with groves of oranges and all types of great things.

That is all well and good until you take into account that this "Barren" and "Fallow" land was in fact the most intensely cultivated bit of turf in the region *before* all those grand declarations. Furthermore the State of Israel is ploughing up Palestinian Olive Groves that date back hundreds and in some cases *thousands* of years. I suppose if you are a racist [censored] you might think that Palestinians can't cultivate, fact is they can and have done for thousands of years. Hell, they provided the majority of the labour behind Israel's agriculture until 2000...

ptlwp said:

There WAS a first temple....there was a second temple....both were destroyed. There was Masada; this is fact and history and you thick ones who cannot understand the right to return to property that was stolen and ruined by Romans and whatever.............happy Channukah.........Judas Maccabee purified the temple with oil, in Jerusalem which had been defiled with idols and Roman trash, pagan idol worshipprers, many of whom, still are today!!!!!!!

I don't know anyone who can prove there is a G-d or that there isn't a G-d. The Jews feel that since the Balfour Declaration was made in 1948, that the land of Israel was rightfully returned to them after years of laying fallow and barren, the Israeli's were able to turn it into a place with groves of oranges and all types of great things.

Coveting thy neighbors goods is a bad thing. The Arabs should make peace an get on with life, and try to live decently and each of them whomever, should stop the fighting......that will happen when the messiah comes; or returns, depending upon your belief.

Anti-Jews will not ever change. Jews will be scapegoats to eternity or until the Messiah comes and are prepared for such.

Masada was not forced upon the jewish zealots, it was of their own volition, which they turned into self destruction.
Anyway, pass a nice Channukah. And you're wrong again. The story is that they had only enough oil for one day but this burned for several days, and thus became a miracle. Bollocks, they went to bed early, that's all.
The Balfour Declaration dated from about 1918.
Jews will not become scapegoats for violence if the Zionist SOI mend their ways, otherwise the diaspora is in for an increasingly rough time.
And as a matter of interest, which country grows the oranges that you eat.

ptlwp said:

Get it through your thick skull.........they RAN and left because they were AFRAID of the STUPID RUMORS that some kind of MASS slaughter was going to be done and this was disinformation and WASNOT going to happen.

I have already presented you with evidence of massacres gathered by Jewish Israeli historians (you have not refuted any of it).

I have already presented you with some choice Ben Gurion quotes (you have not refuted any of them).

Yet here in that squalid litany of denial you claim that none of it ever happened. You are deluding yourself with fairytales. You are no better than the Holocaust deniers.

ptlwp said:

THEY ABANDONED THEIR PROPERTY ON THEIR OWN OF THEIR OWN ACCORD.

The ones who got gunned down in their homes didn't.

As for the rest, they were undoubtedly under duress.

Here in the real world the Jews didn't flee the Nazis of their own accord, nor did the Gentiles suddenly leave their homes and livelihoods behind on the strength of a mere rumour. If you want to have a serious discussion you are going to have to pay more attention to the facts on the ground and be prepared to accept that things are not as black and white as you would like them to be.

Carrera said:

It's interesting that Iran hasn't offered to embrace the Palestinians and allow them to settle in their boundaries.
I guess it will be unpleasant but I think there must be some Europeans who will possibly support Israel's view Iran cannot be allowed to possess WMD:

Stay on topic.

Iran (nor anywhere else in the Middle East) should be obliged to embrace anyone.

The only people who need to accomodate the Palestinians are the Jews in the statelet called israel.

Carrera said:

The Palestinian Arabs are the descendents of post Roman immigrants of Turkish, Arab and Iranian blood and in some cases may be converted Jews. They are the offspring of invaders - people who ethnically cleansed Jews in ancient times.
They are not, as they claim to be, direct descendents of the Philistines of ancient times. The modern Palestinians conquered the land they now live in and displaced Jews. They ethnically cleansed Jewish people who then migrated elsewhere.

Philistines predated the Jews, for a long time

Chapter 35 Genesis.

ptlwp said:

There WAS a first temple....there was a second temple....both were destroyed. There was Masada; this is fact and history and you thick ones who cannot understand the right to return to property that was stolen and ruined by Romans and whatever.............happy Channukah.........Judas Maccabee purified the temple with oil, in Jerusalem which had been defiled with idols and Roman trash, pagan idol worshipprers, many of whom, still are today!!!!!!!

I don't know anyone who can prove there is a G-d or that there isn't a G-d. The Jews feel that since the Balfour Declaration was made in 1948, that the land of Israel was rightfully returned to them after years of laying fallow and barren, the Israeli's were able to turn it into a place with groves of oranges and all types of great things.

Coveting thy neighbors goods is a bad thing. The Arabs should make peace an get on with life, and try to live decently and each of them whomever, should stop the fighting......that will happen when the messiah comes; or returns, depending upon your belief.

Anti-Jews will not ever change. Jews will be scapegoats to eternity or until the Messiah comes and are prepared for such.

The Temple that you refer to is in the OT.
It is the OT that the Jews invoke to claim "God given land".

The same "God given land" belonged to someone else before it was allegedly given to the Jews by God.
Namely the Philistines occupied that land before Jews or Judaism ever existed.

I don't think that anyone here will deny that the Jewish people have been on the receiving end throughout time.
You would think that being on the receiving end, that they would at least understand the plight of Palestinians forcibly removed for what was their land in 1948 ? You'd assume that, wouldn't you ?

But no.
Whenever anyone supports the Palestinian cause, they're accused of being anti-semitic or anti-Jewish.

I have no difficulty in saying that I support the Palestinian cause : they're entitled to retrieve what was theirs.

limerickman said:

The same "God given land" belonged to someone else before it was allegedly given to the Jews by God.
Namely the Philistines occupied that land before Jews or Judaism ever existed.

Why do you keep saying alleged? You are Roman Catholic. Therefore you know that the Bible says that Palestine is the land that God promised to the Jews. Catholics believe both the New and Old Testaments. Last I knew was that as a Christian you are not to pick and choose want you want to believe in the Bible.

And yes Carrera is correct that the Philistines are not the original inhabitants of Palestine. They are believed to have come Crete and the Aegean isles. So they have not been there since time in memorial.

That being said, Carrera doesn't understand that the Palestinians were robbed of their land. They had legal ownership and it was taken from them and they had no say. The Palestinians were screwed. They were pushed out of the land like trash.