New Year pedolutionists

Michael Warner said:

In principle it's great to see people out riding on the work. In practice,
though, I wish the ones on mountain bikes - nearly everyone I pass - would
either pick another road (than the one I happen to be using!) or ride them
in the mountains they were designed for.

It's not the bike, it's the rider. Granted a mountain bike isn't the
ideal tool for the job in most occasions but there's nothing wrong with
them being on the road.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Michael Warner said:

daveL said:

I'm not entirely sure what this comment is getting at though.

Ok, I'll spell it out - the problem is that MTBs are slow and wide,
and trying to pass them safely is often a bit of a worry in busy traffic.

Then exercise some god-dammed common courtesy and wait. You have no
right to go faster than the person in front of you.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

DaveB said:

Hmmm, well I use them on the commuter and the SS. On the commuter because
I don't trust my ability to unclip quick enough in CBD traffic,

Obviously this is a personal thing, but I can get out of a clipless pedal
way quicker than I can get out of a properly tight toe strap. And if the
toe strap is loose I find I might as well just ride a decent flat pedal.

Still, if you're happy with the way you've got your bikes set up, keep
riding them that way.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"The wages of sin is death, but so's the salary of virtue, and at least
the Evil get to go home early on Fridays" - Pratchett

Zebee Johnstone said:

Who doesn't start from "look you lower life form, learn How We Do It or
sell the thing"

Why is that we have to be nice to get people riding bikes, but no matter
how much we try the above approach weirdos crawl out of the woodwork on
Usenet?

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"The wages of sin is death, but so's the salary of virtue, and at least
the Evil get to go home early on Fridays" - Pratchett

Andrew Price said:

Euan wrote - .

Quoted message said:

While the roads are still relatively quiet it's obvious that there's a
lot of new cyclists out there. Great, numbers on the road are our best
defence...[but]... Many of these pedolutionists have limited cycling
skills.

I think this might be the point at which the various State cycling groups
could actually do some good if they understood their function better -
people have made the effort to get a bike, get out of the car and ride on a
city road. That commendable start will very likely IMHO fail because they
will get sore or scared or fail to find kindred spirits on the road which
add so much to the enjoyment of cycling..

I don't think it's so much a question of state cycling bodies not
understanding their unction but one of having limited resources. At
such a level these initiatives cost a considerable amount of money and
time; something that can be hard to get past the board when all that's
being passed on is education which has little tangible to point the
finger at in the annual reports.

What's needed is a more grass roots approach such as you outlined later
in your post. I'm assuming the bunch was a roadie bunch? Therein lies
the first problem, commuting cyclists are (generally) solitary souls.
It's relatively easy for a new roadie to find a group and that's great
because a lot of roadies also commute. That doesn't help people such as
myself who do most of their miles solo.

Quoted message said:

If you can remember back to that time we all went through when it was all
new and confusing

Not really, I was about five. That's one of the biggest problems
Australia has, a lost generation of cycling.

In the UK I didn't get ferried around to the various out of school
activities, I rode. Everywhere. And that was considered normal That
doesn't happen here, in fact it doesn't happen much in the UK now.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Michael Warner said:

In principle it's great to see people out riding on the work. In
practice, though, I wish the ones on mountain bikes - nearly everyone I
pass - would either pick another road (than the one I happen to be
using!) or ride them in the mountains they were designed for.

Why? Why should I find an alternate route, or buy another bike [1]. I can
ride a mountain bike with knobbies to Sydney CBD from here in just under
an hour. My record on a slicked up commuter is 48 minutes, and it's
normally low 50s, so we're talking about a 10% speed difference. That's
really not that much, and if I were to only have one bike it'd be one I
can take where I really enjoy riding - offroad.

I suspect you're seeing new riders who've bought a "do everything" bike
that's also more comfortable *for a beginner rider* than a roadie. Yes,
the roadie will be more comfortable for long distances, and once you're
used to it. But mountain-style bikes are cheaper than roadies, and even
decent off road capable bikes start at about $700, vs about $1000 for the
cheapest "real" roadie I've seen.

[1] We'll ignore the fact that I have a dedicated commuter with 700c
wheels. It's got a flat bar and disc brakes. We'll also conveniently
ignore the ruling that I'm not allowed to buy any more bikes until I've
got room for them.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"The wages of sin is death, but so's the salary of virtue, and at least
the Evil get to go home early on Fridays" - Pratchett

Michael Warner said:

Ok, I'll spell it out - the problem is that MTBs are slow and wide

Right. I was polite in my other post, but now...

The fastest I've ever gone on a bike was 85 km/h on a mountain bike. I've
regularly passed roadies in Centennial Park and on the road on a mountain
bike, and I've been quicker down the hill from Waterfall on Sydney to the
Gong because I've got better brakes.

And I'm quite happy to wait behind a roadie until there's a reasonable
spot to pass them.
--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"The wages of sin is death, but so's the salary of virtue, and at least
the Evil get to go home early on Fridays" - Pratchett

Parbs said:

'Cause its soooo embarrassing to get passed on you carbon latte racer by
the guy with muddy shoes, coloured socks and helmet visor on the mountain
bike with big DJ forks running 2.5" tyres at 20psi and a big smile on his
face ;-)

XC whippets get the [censored] when you do that as well, but I think I might
try singlespeeding at the crits tomorrow.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"The wages of sin is death, but so's the salary of virtue, and at least
the Evil get to go home early on Fridays" - Pratchett

Bleve said:

Euan said:

Nearly home and hear that dreaded sound (no, not that one) of brakes on
rim. That's odd. Stop bike and spin front wheel. All good. Spin
back. Try to spin back. WTF?

Look at mech and the barrel adjuster's been wound all the way out,
locking on the rear brake. Not completely but enough to cause drag.
Thirty kilometers, on a day when I could actually leave the panniers at
work, all with the rear brake tearing my rim apart.

How did you manage to ride home (30km) without noticing your brake was
on?

Strong headwind and not used to feel of bike without panniers.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

quote='Euan'Michael Warner said:

daveL said:

I'm not entirely sure what this comment is getting at though.

Ok, I'll spell it out - the problem is that MTBs are slow and wide,
and trying to pass them safely is often a bit of a worry in busy traffic.

Then exercise some god-dammed common courtesy and wait. You have no
right to go faster than the person in front of you.
[/QUOTE]

Um, from how I read Michael he is waiting - not like the clowns who blow past my ear at red lights.
Showing courtesy is one thing, being happy about it can be another.

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaveB said:

LotteBum said:

wear a jersey as well), doing up his toe straps (who the [censored] uses them
these days!?!)

Hmmm, well I use them on the commuter and the SS. On the commuter
because I don't trust my ability to unclip quick enough in CBD traffic,
ad on the SS because I want to ride to the shops in whatever I'm wearing.

DaveB

If your toe straps are loose enough that they're quicker to get out of
than clipless pedals, they might as well not be there 😉

Tam

I've only recently gone clipless and I had straps that I could get in and
out of quikly and easily. They were still snug enough that I could haul up
on them and if I tried riding something with flat pedals my feet skidded all
over the place. They were definitely doing something for me.

Random Data said:

We'll also conveniently
ignore the ruling that I'm not allowed to buy any more bikes until I've
got room for them.

Ceiling racks! Perfect for that empty space above the bed.

Parbs said:

I'll have a flat white thanks with one sugar or a Coopers Sparkling Ale

Mmm, Coopers...

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Peter Signorini said:

My off-road MTB has bars that are 64 cms wide, as opposed to the average
road bar at around 40 cms (they should be abbout the width of your
shoulders) so there's 24 cms difference. But wait, it's only the right side
of the bar that matters when passing, so it's 12 cms wider that you are
forced to ride.

However, if there are parked cars or other obstacles on the left, you have
to ride further out to avoid them, so it's the full 24cm in that case.

Quoted message said:

So because of a 12 cm passing difficulty you're proposing to relegate all
MTB riders to a lesser road system.?

Nope, just pointing out that you're often a nuisance to roadies. The rest
is your hyperbole.

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Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Euan said:

Then exercise some god-dammed common courtesy and wait.

I do wait. And wait, and wait, sometimes. And I never complain
to them about it. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Random Data said:

The fastest I've ever gone on a bike was 85 km/h on a mountain bike. I've
regularly passed roadies in Centennial Park and on the road on a mountain
bike, and I've been quicker down the hill from Waterfall on Sydney to the
Gong because I've got better brakes.

Maybe you could come over and show our locals how it's done.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

Random Data said:

The fastest I've ever gone on a bike was 85 km/h on a mountain bike. I've
regularly passed roadies in Centennial Park and on the road on a mountain
bike, and I've been quicker down the hill from Waterfall on Sydney to the
Gong because I've got better brakes.

on gravel road downhills on my road/tourer I've often been faster than the MTBs,
probably because I haven't dared to brake.

Resound' [email protected] said:

"Tamyka Bell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

DaveB said:

LotteBum wrote:
> wear a jersey as well), doing up his toe straps (who the [censored] uses them
> these days!?!)

Hmmm, well I use them on the commuter and the SS. On the commuter
because I don't trust my ability to unclip quick enough in CBD traffic,
ad on the SS because I want to ride to the shops in whatever I'm wearing.

DaveB

If your toe straps are loose enough that they're quicker to get out of
than clipless pedals, they might as well not be there 😉

Tam

I've only recently gone clipless and I had straps that I could get
in and out of quikly and easily. They were still snug enough that I
could haul up on them and if I tried riding something with flat
pedals my feet skidded all over the place. They were definitely
doing something for me.

Maybe Tam is a clip system troll... ;-)

As a toe strap wearer, I can certainly confirm what you say. It seems
to be a myth made up by people in love with expensive "clipless"
systems (you know, the ones with the clips) that toe straps are
useless unless they are tight. They are not useless, and I wouldn't do
serious riding without them. Just for starters, without them, feet
have a habit of flying off the pedals at the most inopportune times --
even an unexpected bump in the road could do it (and has). With
just-tight-enough straps, my feet have never come off the pedals
unless I wanted them to, yet I can get my feet off the pedals almost
as easily as if the straps were not there. Furthermore, it is
eminently possible to pull up on straps that are not quite tight, thus
gaining a good portion of the efficiency of clips.

It should also be obvious that *tight* toe straps are *dangerous*
unless, perhaps, you are riding a fixed wheel on a velodrome (in which
case, these days, you'd almost certainly be using clips instead of
straps so you don't embarrass yourself by falling over while loosening
straps... ;-) ).

Cheers,

David

--

David Trudgett
http://www.zeta.org.au/~wpower/

Although people often bemoan political apathy as if it were a grave
social ill, it seems to me that this is just as it should be. Why
should essentially powerless people want to engage in a humiliating
farce designed to demonstrate the legitimacy of those who wield the
power?

-- Dmitry Orlov

aeek said:

on gravel road downhills on my road/tourer I've often been faster than the
MTBs, probably because I haven't dared to brake.

Also because you're a faster cyclist than the MTBers, and there's probably
the fact you remember overtaking an MTB on dirt. The right bike certainly
makes a difference to speed, but the rider is still providing the power -
Brad McGee on a Kmart special would beat me on anything without 125cc of
assistance.

--
Dave Hughes | [email hidden]
"SCSI is *not* magic. There are fundamental technical reasons why it is
necessary to sacrifice a young goat to your SCSI chain now and then."
- Daniel M. Drucker

David Trudgett said:

As a toe strap wearer, I can certainly confirm what you say. It seems
to be a myth made up by people in love with expensive "clipless"
systems (you know, the ones with the clips) that toe straps are
useless unless they are tight. They are not useless, and I wouldn't do
serious riding without them. Just for starters, without them, feet
have a habit of flying off the pedals at the most inopportune times --
even an unexpected bump in the road could do it (and has). With
just-tight-enough straps, my feet have never come off the pedals
unless I wanted them to, yet I can get my feet off the pedals almost
as easily as if the straps were not there. Furthermore, it is
eminently possible to pull up on straps that are not quite tight, thus
gaining a good portion of the efficiency of clips.

Serious strap systems include specially shaped shoe soles and pedals
that can't slip apart horizontally, don't they? Do you use something like
that, or just a standard flat pedal with street shoes? I'd be surprised
if the latter could be set up to slip apart easily (without the need to
loosen the strap) yet stay in securely, even when you're pulling up on
the pedal.

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Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw