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No Helmets Needed?

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Road Cycling
Published
5 January 2006
Last activity
16 January 2006
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NYC XYZ
Posts
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  1. HH said:

    "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>
    .

    Quoted message said:

    Only a savage and a barbarian like Frank K. would sink that low.

    <snip>

    I'm only guessing, but I'd bet Frank K. has never been called a savage and a
    barbarian in rec.bicycles.misc. Not even in one of their stupid helmet
    threads.

    Tough crowd in the recumbent room.

    See
    <http://highracers.blogspot.com/2005/12/save-recumbent-community-join-lamfra.html>
    for one person's opinion. 😉

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

  2. "The Wogster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Edward Dolan wrote:


    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Anyone who does not wear SOMETHING on their blasted head when in the
    great out of doors is uncivilized. If you were civilized you would know
    this much at least. But you are a barbarian and a savage who goes about
    the world uncovered. You belong in New Guinea, not the Western World.

    In the good old days, a gentleman of culture and leisure such as myself
    would not be caught dead out of doors without SOMETHING on his blasted
    head. I blame President Kennedy for setting in motion this penchant for
    not wearing anything on your blasted head. Frank, I urge you, put
    SOMETHING on that blasted head of yours, most especially when you are
    riding your bike. Otherwise, you will look like the dork and the jerk
    that you are.

    I am also of the notion that grown men should not be wearing baseball
    style of caps. They are for nerdy teenagers, not dignified men of the
    world. Go back to the 1930's if you would know what we should be wearing
    on our blasted heads.

    I suppose that means we need to wear a wool suit, tie and spats, with
    Oxfords to go along with that fedora. I spend 6 months of the year
    wearing a touque outside, typically wear a ball cap during the summer,
    when being active. They keep the sun off your head, the sun out of your
    eyes, work well for keeping rain out of your eyes as well.

    I do not like any kind of caps. Hats are what is called for for grown men.
    Caps are for kids. Men wearing caps look absurd. They look dorky and jerky.

    But most men dress like slobs these days in every respect. Men who wear blue
    jeans are especially hideous.The fatter and uglier we get, the worse we
    dress. The only solution is the grave when the world will be rid of our
    loathsome presence.

    I refer you to the good old days of the 1930's and 1940's when men looked
    like men with proper hats on their heads. Apparently those days are gone
    forever and we are doomed to go into the future looking like very old kids
    with beanies on our heads and blue jeans on our asses. It is really quite
    laughable.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
    aka
    Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

  3. "Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:42:36 -0600, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:


    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    By advocating that cyclists should not wear helmets they are in effect
    committing murder by proxy.

    Not true. By asking people to look a the data they are exposing the
    truth about h*lmets...that they will not protect you in a major head
    impact truama. 'Murder by proxy' sounds like you believe that a h*lmet
    will save your life, when in fact any impact of sufficient force to
    kill you will do so regardless of whether or not you remembered to don
    your foil lined stryfoam hat.

    I'm not advocated not wearing h*lmets, and I'm not advocating wearing
    them either. I do think one should not expect protection from anything
    more serious than minor scrapes & bruises. Proper riding skills are
    much more effective at saving one's bacon than are the foam hats.

    I have fallen down more on my recumbent than I ever did on my upright,
    of course I have riden much more since making the change as well. Most
    of my spills have been comical low speed events, and I have never come
    close to hitting my head on anything.

    My main point was that I do not want lay folks like you and me making
    decisions based on our reading of the data and/or a statistic because we are
    not qualified to know what to think. We are not expert in the field of
    safety. My appeal is to authority. As in all walks of life, it is best to
    leave most things in their hands.

    It is very dangerous to think for yourself about most matters. It is far
    better and safer to rely on the experts (in their field of expertise only)
    to do our thinking for us. That way we will live longer and healthier.

    If it is possible that you and Frank K. are right, then it will be up to you
    to convince the powers that be that you are right. It may be that you could
    become one of those powers yourself and then dictate to the rest of us what
    we should think about the matter. But until that day arrives, I will go with
    the status quo, thank you very much!

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
    aka
    Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

  4. Mike Rice said:

    ...
    I knew Mr. Dolan was aware he was cross-posting, something he has
    claimed to never do. And now I see why. He thirsts for new blood,
    having successfully (in secret partnership with Mr. Ed Gin)...

    Do you have DEFINITIVE PROOF, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, of Ed Gin's
    involvement?

    There are many Monkeys on The Island, and some have never posted using
    their real names.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

  5. "Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    HH said:

    "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>
    .

    Quoted message said:

    Only a savage and a barbarian like Frank K. would sink that low.

    <snip>

    I'm only guessing, but I'd bet Frank K. has never been called a savage
    and a
    barbarian in rec.bicycles.misc. Not even in one of their stupid helmet
    threads.

    Tough crowd in the recumbent room.

    See
    <http://highracers.blogspot.com/2005/12/save-recumbent-community-join-lamfra.html>
    for one person's opinion. 😉

    If I went to this link and saw something I did not like (an obscenity for
    instance) I would have to spend the next half dozen posts taking Mr. Sherman
    to the woodshed. I am tired of doing that, so I won't bother going to his
    links anymore than I would bother going to the links of Ed Gin (the criminal
    vandal troll who destroyed ARBR).

    Mr. Sherman has always had a very strange sense of humor which I have never
    understood. Truth to tell I am not amused by anything anymore. That is for
    kids and dunces.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
    aka
    Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

  6. "Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    Peter Clinch said:

    ...
    One thing to bear in mind with 'bents is they have rather different
    performance characteristics to typical uprights. You'll typically be
    slower up hills, faster into headwinds and down hills. This can be a
    problem for all concerned if you're on a group tour on a hilly, windy
    circuit, depending on how much folk are happy to wait up and take it at
    a slowest pace. Lower machines can make life a little more awkward to
    speak to folk next to you, and the fact that other folk can't draft you
    can be an annoyance to some, though it'll depend on the group.
    Something to bear in mind if you're into group riding though.

    The most annoying thing on larger group rides is when a cluster of
    upright cyclists spread out and take up the whole road (or whole lane
    when there is oncoming traffic) on a descent. This forces the rider on
    an aerodynamic recumbent to ride the brakes all the way down the hill.
    I am sure these same upright riders would be "pissing and moaning"
    if a slow group of Fat Old Geezers (FOGs) on recumbents did the same on
    an uphill section.

    Recumbent cyclists like to go as fast as they can downhill to make up for
    their turtle pace going uphill. However, no matter how fast recumbents go
    downhill, they can never make it up. They will inevitably fall behind
    uprights. If you aren't fast going uphill, you are not in the game.
    Elementary, my dear Watson!

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
    aka
    Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

  7. Edward Dolan said:

    "Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    See
    <http://highracers.blogspot.com/2005/12/save-recumbent-community-join-lamfra.html>
    for one person's opinion. 😉

    If I went to this link and saw something I did not like (an obscenity for
    instance) I would have to spend the next half dozen posts taking Mr. Sherman
    to the woodshed. I am tired of doing that, so I won't bother going to his
    links anymore than I would bother going to the links of Ed Gin (the criminal
    vandal troll who destroyed ARBR)....

    Mr. Ed Dolan casts spurious accusations towards Ed Gin.

    --
    Tom Sherman - Fox River Valley

  8. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Edward Dolan said:

    If I went to this link and saw something I did not like (an obscenity for
    instance) I would have to spend the next half dozen posts taking Mr. Sherman
    to the woodshed.

    Yeah, fantasy can be so grueling.

    Quoted message said:

    I am tired of doing that,

    Scared-y cat.

    Quoted message said:

    so I won't bother going to his
    links anymore than I would bother going to the links of Ed Gin (the criminal
    vandal troll who destroyed ARBR).

    Mr. Sherman has always had a very strange sense of humor which I have never
    understood.

    It's understandable that humour escapes you.

    Quoted message said:

    Regards,


    Be fruitful, multiply, and go forth.

    While you're at it, I suggest designing/building yourself
    a real recumbent instead of buying that off-the-shelf,
    pre-made,stock stuff that inept lusers such as yourself
    resort to. Maybe it'll help improve your self-image.
    Especially if you can ride it around the block without
    tbe wheels falling off in the first hundred yards.

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

  9. "Tom Keats" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    [...]

    Quoted message said:

    While you're at it, I suggest designing/building yourself
    a real recumbent instead of buying that off-the-shelf,
    pre-made,stock stuff that inept lusers such as yourself
    resort to. Maybe it'll help improve your self-image.
    Especially if you can ride it around the block without
    tbe wheels falling off in the first hundred yards.

    You bet, nothing like reinventing the wheel. That is what idiots do all the
    time.

    The only reason to build your own recumbent is to save some money.
    Otherwise, it is a waste of time and effort. Anyone on RBM build their own
    bikes? Of course not. That is because they have more brains than do we
    recumbent cyclists.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
    aka
    Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Edward Dolan said:

    The only reason to build your own recumbent is to save some money.
    Otherwise, it is a waste of time and effort. Anyone on RBM build their own
    bikes? Of course not.

    You'd be surprised. You've gotcher tallbikes & chopperz --
    things that are boldly in-yer-face, unlike your recessive,
    shy, shrinking-violet street luges that wanna get run over
    in the blind spots in front of cement trucks while you
    introvertedly avoid eye-contact or any other communication
    with fellow road users. Such self-wrapped cocoonery!

    Quoted message said:

    That is because they have more brains than do we
    recumbent cyclists.

    Not brains. Balls.

    Speaking of which -- you're not so great after all, are you?

    --
    -- Nothing is safe from me.
    Above address is just a spam midden.
    I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn [point] bc [point] ca

  11. On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 23:55:11 -0600, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Mike Rice" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    On Fri, 6 Jan 2006 16:42:36 -0600, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>
    wrote:


    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    By advocating that cyclists should not wear helmets they are in effect
    committing murder by proxy.

    Not true. By asking people to look a the data they are exposing the
    truth about h*lmets...that they will not protect you in a major head
    impact truama. 'Murder by proxy' sounds like you believe that a h*lmet
    will save your life, when in fact any impact of sufficient force to
    kill you will do so regardless of whether or not you remembered to don
    your foil lined stryfoam hat.

    I'm not advocated not wearing h*lmets, and I'm not advocating wearing
    them either. I do think one should not expect protection from anything
    more serious than minor scrapes & bruises. Proper riding skills are
    much more effective at saving one's bacon than are the foam hats.

    I have fallen down more on my recumbent than I ever did on my upright,
    of course I have riden much more since making the change as well. Most
    of my spills have been comical low speed events, and I have never come
    close to hitting my head on anything.

    My main point was that I do not want lay folks like you and me making
    decisions based on our reading of the data and/or a statistic because we are
    not qualified to know what to think. We are not expert in the field of
    safety. My appeal is to authority. As in all walks of life, it is best to
    leave most things in their hands.

    It is very dangerous to think for yourself about most matters. It is far
    better and safer to rely on the experts (in their field of expertise only)
    to do our thinking for us. That way we will live longer and healthier.

    If it is possible that you and Frank K. are right, then it will be up to you
    to convince the powers that be that you are right. It may be that you could
    become one of those powers yourself and then dictate to the rest of us what
    we should think about the matter. But until that day arrives, I will go with
    the status quo, thank you very much!

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan

    You are welcome to your styro hat, I almost always wear one as well.
    But I know it is mainly a psychological comfort, and some protection
    in case of low impact events only.

    Be careful to which experts you defer your thinking Ed. In the case of
    H*lm*ts, the most vocal experts in favor are the manufacturers. I
    believe their primary interest is the $.

    Do you feel it is irrelevant that the safest area in the world for
    cycling (the Netherlands) has perhaps the lowest incidence of h*lm*t
    use? And what is your answer to the experts who point out that no
    population has ever shown a decrease in head impact injury when h*lm*t
    use increased?

    I'm sure you are aware that h*lm*t threads take on a life of their
    own. You've seen it many times before. It is your kind of thread. Most
    folks have closed minds and will not think at all.

    Indiana Mike

  12. On 6 Jan 2006 22:13:41 -0800, "Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Mike Rice said:

    ...
    I knew Mr. Dolan was aware he was cross-posting, something he has
    claimed to never do. And now I see why. He thirsts for new blood,
    having successfully (in secret partnership with Mr. Ed Gin)...

    Do you have DEFINITIVE PROOF, BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT, of Ed Gin's
    involvement?

    There are many Monkeys on The Island, and some have never posted using
    their real names.

    Ooh-Ooh-Ooh! I stand corrected.

    I freely admit I have only the most minor suspicion as to Mr. Gin's
    collusion with Mr. Dolan in this regard. I have personally never met
    either of the gentlemen in question, and only mentioned them in the
    same breath in hopes of stirring up our very prolific resident thorn.

    How many times are you going to ask me for this proof? I get awfully
    tired of your sidestepping the real issue at hand, you know. I've been
    locked in this windowless room with no doors for so long that I have
    forgotten whatever the butler did anyway.

    The gun is still smoking.

    Indiana Mike

  13. On Sat, 7 Jan 2006 00:15:36 -0600, "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    "Johnny Sunset" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    HH said:

    "Edward Dolan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    <snip>
    .
    > Only a savage and a barbarian like Frank K. would sink that low.

    <snip>

    I'm only guessing, but I'd bet Frank K. has never been called a savage
    and a
    barbarian in rec.bicycles.misc. Not even in one of their stupid helmet
    threads.

    Tough crowd in the recumbent room.

    See
    <http://highracers.blogspot.com/2005/12/save-recumbent-community-join-lamfra.html>
    for one person's opinion. 😉

    If I went to this link and saw something I did not like (an obscenity for
    instance) I would have to spend the next half dozen posts taking Mr. Sherman
    to the woodshed. I am tired of doing that, so I won't bother going to his
    links anymore than I would bother going to the links of Ed Gin (the criminal
    vandal troll who destroyed ARBR).

    Mr. Sherman has always had a very strange sense of humor which I have never
    understood. Truth to tell I am not amused by anything anymore. That is for
    kids and dunces.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan the (snipped)

    Since I know you won't look at this, and I think yuou might
    apprecriate this particular item I will describe it for you, Ed.

    This page has nothing offensive, only an invitation to join LAMFRA. It
    appears to be a flyer, legend reads:
    "Sick of loudmouth fascistswith frozen brains ruining the recumbent
    community with their crybaby whining and right wing diatribes? You are
    not alone." appearing above a graphic with the slashed circle in red
    over a figure with an upraised fist riding a recumbent, and wearing a
    hat emblazoned with a swastika.

    Beneath the image reads:
    "join LAMFRA: Lowracers Against Minnesota Fascist Recumbent [censored]"

    Indiana Mike


  14. Quoted message said:

    Be careful to which experts you defer your thinking Ed. In the case of
    H*lm*ts, the most vocal experts in favor are the manufacturers. I
    believe their primary interest is the $.

    Actually the most vocal group is pediatricians, followed by doctors in
    general. The manufacturers tend to be less vocal, because it would be
    seen as too self-serving.

    Quoted message said:

    Do you feel it is irrelevant that the safest area in the world for
    cycling (the Netherlands) has perhaps the lowest incidence of h*lm*t
    use?

    The reason for this has been explained many times. It's due to
    differences in cycling road infrastructure, the attitudes of drivers
    towards cyclists, the near 100% use of lighting at night, etc. If you go
    to the Netherlands, you'll understand the difference.

    Quoted message said:

    And what is your answer to the experts who point out that no
    population has ever shown a decrease in head impact injury when h*lm*t
    use increased?

    The population studies do show that a) cycling is not a dangerous
    activity, and b) compulsion laws are a bad idea. But don't fall for the
    junk science promulgated by people from the anti-compulsion side. They
    have taken spurious correlation to levels usually only seen in fake
    studies for OTC medications, herbal remedies, and diet pulls.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure you are aware that h*lm*t threads take on a life of their
    own. You've seen it many times before. It is your kind of thread. Most
    folks have closed minds and will not think at all.

    That's fine, but what's sad is when the people with closed minds cause
    other people to close their minds as well.

  15. On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 03:29:52 -0800, SMS <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Be careful to which experts you defer your thinking Ed. In the case of
    H*lm*ts, the most vocal experts in favor are the manufacturers. I
    believe their primary interest is the $.

    Actually the most vocal group is pediatricians, followed by doctors in
    general. The manufacturers tend to be less vocal, because it would be
    seen as too self-serving.

    I have a friend who is a physical therapist. He has had patients who
    suffered debilitating head injury while riding without h*lm*ts and
    will never have a normal life as a result. He is a h*lm*t proponent.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    Do you feel it is irrelevant that the safest area in the world for
    cycling (the Netherlands) has perhaps the lowest incidence of h*lm*t
    use?

    The reason for this has been explained many times. It's due to
    differences in cycling road infrastructure, the attitudes of drivers
    towards cyclists, the near 100% use of lighting at night, etc. If you go
    to the Netherlands, you'll understand the difference.

    I agree that these factors should have a much larger effect on cycling
    safety than H*lm*t use.

    Quoted message said:


    Quoted message said:

    And what is your answer to the experts who point out that no
    population has ever shown a decrease in head impact injury when h*lm*t
    use increased?

    The population studies do show that a) cycling is not a dangerous
    activity, and b) compulsion laws are a bad idea. But don't fall for the
    junk science promulgated by people from the anti-compulsion side. They
    have taken spurious correlation to levels usually only seen in fake
    studies for OTC medications, herbal remedies, and diet pulls.

    Quoted message said:

    I'm sure you are aware that h*lm*t threads take on a life of their
    own. You've seen it many times before. It is your kind of thread. Most
    folks have closed minds and will not think at all.

    That's fine, but what's sad is when the people with closed minds cause
    other people to close their minds as well.

    Point taken. I am not trying to be anti-h*lm*t, I wear one most of the
    time myself. After all, minor injuries are far more common than major
    injuries, and a h*lm*t may well prevent some uncomfortable scrapes and
    such. I still do not want to hit my head on pavement, even when
    wearing my styro hat. The h*lm*t could excaberate a rotational injury.

    One post in this thread had a quote in the nature of 'A helmet is a
    good idea if you can convince yourself it will offer only slight
    protection.' (paraphrased). Can we agree this is a reasonable view?

    Indiana Mike

  16. Mike Rice said:

    I have a friend who is a physical therapist. He has had patients who
    suffered debilitating head injury while riding without h*lm*ts and
    will never have a normal life as a result. He is a h*lm*t proponent.

    I have a relative that is also a PT, and she's has the same
    perspective. However I don't believe that doctors or PT's, who only
    deal with the injured patients, have a balanced view. It's fine for
    them to explain how helmets reduce the severity of head injuries, and
    certainly the ER and accident data shows this to be beyond question,
    but the number of such injuries is sufficiently low that compulsion, at
    least for adults, is not warranted. It's better to approach the issue
    through education, which will not alienate people.

    Ironically the biggest contribution toward more compulsion is the rash
    of junk science papers and articles generated by the anti-compulsion
    forces. The medical community feels obliged to respond in some way, and
    they have the respectability that is necessary to get the compulsion
    laws pushed through.

  17. Edward Dolan said:

    "The Wogster" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Edward Dolan wrote:

    [...]

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Anyone who does not wear SOMETHING on their blasted head when in the
    great out of doors is uncivilized. If you were civilized you would know
    this much at least. But you are a barbarian and a savage who goes about
    the world uncovered. You belong in New Guinea, not the Western World.

    In the good old days, a gentleman of culture and leisure such as myself
    would not be caught dead out of doors without SOMETHING on his blasted
    head. I blame President Kennedy for setting in motion this penchant for
    not wearing anything on your blasted head. Frank, I urge you, put
    SOMETHING on that blasted head of yours, most especially when you are
    riding your bike. Otherwise, you will look like the dork and the jerk
    that you are.

    I am also of the notion that grown men should not be wearing baseball
    style of caps. They are for nerdy teenagers, not dignified men of the
    world. Go back to the 1930's if you would know what we should be wearing
    on our blasted heads.

    I suppose that means we need to wear a wool suit, tie and spats, with
    Oxfords to go along with that fedora. I spend 6 months of the year
    wearing a touque outside, typically wear a ball cap during the summer,
    when being active. They keep the sun off your head, the sun out of your
    eyes, work well for keeping rain out of your eyes as well.

    I do not like any kind of caps. Hats are what is called for for grown men.
    Caps are for kids. Men wearing caps look absurd. They look dorky and jerky.

    In winter, I would rather be a warm dork, then, well there has never
    been a proper hat, designed for winter use, except maybe those Russian
    things made from dead animal fur. They are heavy, and really kind of ugly.

    Quoted message said:

    But most men dress like slobs these days in every respect. Men who wear blue
    jeans are especially hideous.The fatter and uglier we get, the worse we
    dress. The only solution is the grave when the world will be rid of our
    loathsome presence.

    There is, of course, a solution to that, more human powered miles, fewer
    car miles. The more calories you burn, given the same amount of food,
    the less weight you need to worry about.

    Quoted message said:

    I refer you to the good old days of the 1930's and 1940's when men looked
    like men with proper hats on their heads. Apparently those days are gone
    forever and we are doomed to go into the future looking like very old kids
    with beanies on our heads and blue jeans on our asses. It is really quite
    laughable.

    If one does no physical activity faster then a walk or cycles at less
    then 7MPH, and does so only when the temperature is between 40F and 75F
    then clothing from those days would make sense. Mind you the
    practicality of denim outside of those temperature regions, also doesn't
    make sense, because it chaffs in the summer, and since it's cotton, it
    simply gets cold and wet in winter.

    One thing we have really gained, recently is activity centred clothing,
    where the way you dress, is indictive of activity, the stuffed shirt can
    wear a shirt and tie. The cyclist can wear cycling clothes, the hiker
    can wear hiking clothes (other then the pocket placement, and no need of
    a chamios) this is similar to cycling clothing.

    W

  18. Mike Rice said:

    I have a friend who is a physical therapist. He has had patients who
    suffered debilitating head injury while riding without h*lm*ts and
    will never have a normal life as a result. He is a h*lm*t proponent.

    Um, shouldn't you asterisk abusers also b*st*rdize the SUBJECT line?!?

    <eg>

    Bill "helmet h*ir" S.

  19. Mike Rice said:

    On Sat, 07 Jan 2006 03:29:52 -0800, SMS <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Be careful to which experts you defer your thinking Ed. In the case of
    H*lm*ts, the most vocal experts in favor are the manufacturers. I
    believe their primary interest is the $.


    Actually the most vocal group is pediatricians, followed by doctors in
    general. The manufacturers tend to be less vocal, because it would be
    seen as too self-serving.

    I have a friend who is a physical therapist. He has had patients who
    suffered debilitating head injury while riding without h*lm*ts and
    will never have a normal life as a result. He is a h*lm*t proponent.

    I have a relative who is also a PT, and has the same view. If you just
    ask medical professionals, of course you're going to get mainly
    pro-helmet views, since they are seeing the results of not wearing a
    helmet. Very few people don't understand that in the event of head
    impact accident, that the helmet wearer will fare better, the extent of
    how much better is the real debate.

    OTOH, the medical professionals have a skewed view of the issue, since
    they are looking only at the tiny fraction of the population that had an
    accident in the first place. Still, the medical professional's opinions
    carry a lot of weight in public policy.

    Ironically all the junk science promulgated by the anti-compulsion
    forces plays a part in the efforts of the medical establishment for more
    compulsion laws, and hurts the anti-compulsion cause when public policy
    is being made. Who are you going to listen to as a policy maker, someone
    who deals with injuries that could have been lessened or eliminated by
    the use of a helmet, or someone that rants about walking and gardening
    helmets?

  20. On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 07:26:24 -0800, SMS <[email hidden]>
    said in <[email hidden]>:

    Quoted message said:

    the high voluntary
    compliance rate in my club was probably an anomaly due to its location
    in Silicon Valley, where most of the club members had high levels of
    education.

    Yes, it's well known that dot commers are *much* smarter than the
    Dutch.

    Or perhaps it was exposure to relentless propaganda? No, surely
    not...

    Guy
    --
    http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

    "To every complex problem there is a solution which is
    simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken

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