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How I spent Last Sunday(50k)

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General fitness, health and nutrition
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12 January 2006
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15 January 2006
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Doug Freese
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  1. http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/SPORTS06/601120313/1002/NEWS

    If you can't read the page or don't want to sign in if it is demanded,
    see the few words at the bottom.

    This is not a race for my pal Lance. Not because of the distance but you
    don't know who is your competition at any given moment.

    It's your typical Fat Ass race, come and do some or all. They only ask
    that you check in if you plan to run the entire race so they can mark
    off your laps. Over 70 started and you have no idea how many loops each
    person will do. For me and an my band of 8 we didn't care. The writer of
    this article is the co director and friend so I drag my winter Ho's(it's
    their adopted term so don't let anyone get a wedgie in their shorts) to
    the race for the weekly long run.

    For some people a 5k loop is boring but there is the advantage of
    passing your car every 5k to eat and drink. No need to carry anything,
    add and subtract layers of clothes plus you get to watch people. There
    were five of us that ran side by side from the start because our pace is
    about the same. Others from the group were doing less and kicked it to a
    higher gear. We were maybe in the middle of 70 just doing our laps
    watching the people in front of us do their thing.

    For the first two laps we had a guy tag along who was telling an old
    Boston tale of hitting the med tent with a calf cramp and then
    strapping him down and off the hospital with ice on his testicles. All
    the time he is saying I have a cramp in my calf. He gets to the
    hospital and the ER doc verifies, yes he has a calf cramp and off he
    goes home. We are running and laughing almost to the point we have to
    stop. This started all the shrinkage jokes and did he ever have
    kids,etc. It went verbally down hill from there. We got about 7 laps out
    of that plus a few other war stories that crawl out of the closest after
    I wake up.

    Next thing I know we have three to go and then there is just the two of
    us. We have been paying absolutely no attention to the race. Very little
    idea where we were in race and didn't really care. There was one female
    in front of us that was really flying. Damn near see contrails as she
    ran and great running form. We hit lap 9, two to go, and the fast
    evaporatedand we are passing people like they are stationary. It's early
    in the year and many overestimate their abilities and [censored] the bed big
    time. I'd say we did not slow very much. We were not racing and simply
    trying to hold a steady pace. After the fact we had averaged 9:03 but we
    had stopped for about a minute at each lap to eat, drink, change
    clothes, potty stop, etc. so we likely averaged about 8:45. Not to bad
    for a 50k when our longest run was 14 miles.

    Dot, you may know Alicja Barahona from her Iditarod record of 7 days 16
    hours

    1. Byron Lane (38) 3:52:04
    2. Tim Henderson (36) 3:58:56
    3. Ken Klemp (48) 4:09:43
    4. Jacque Schiffer ( 41) 4:41:33
    4. Doug Freese (60) 4:41:33
    6. Eric Gross (48) 5:11:40
    7. Jeanine Armbrust (39) 5:12:42
    8. Jay Lustgarten (45) 5:21:10
    9. Alicja Barahona (51) 5:22:29
    10. Leo Saposnick (59) 5:22:52
    11. Erika Abraham (67) 5:47:13
    12. Larry Phillips (44) 5:50:05
    13. Cornell Dawson ( 64) 5:54:52
    14. Barbara Sorrell (48) 5:57:00
    15. Lois Grayson (48) 6:36:25
    15 Charlie Dermody (54) 6:36:25

    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Women's winner repeats
    Jacquie Schiffer of Olivebridge, Ulster County, repeated as women's
    titlist. Once again, the Onteora Runners Club star teamed with fellow
    Onteora stalwart Doug Freese, running the entire length of the race
    together. The ageless Freese, 60, who looks and runs at about half his
    age, was cracking jokes the entire way and encouraging Schiffer to her
    fourth-place finish of 4:41:33.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    P.S. I never knew she had won last year.

  2. On Thu, 12 Jan 2006 11:29:13 GMT, "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    It's your typical Fat Ass race,

    Sounds like it IS a race for launch-a-snot.

  3. Doug Freese said:

    http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/SPORTS06/601120313/1002/NEWS

    If you can't read the page or don't want to sign in if it is demanded,
    see the few words at the bottom.

    There wasn't any sign-in screen. It came up fine.

    Quoted message said:


    This is not a race for my pal Lance. Not because of the distance but you
    don't know who is your competition at any given moment.

    And that was an interesting report, even if it missed the aspect of
    position versus your competition.
    But wow! tied for fourth place when you were just doing a "training
    run".

    Thanks Doug for the report.
    Congratulations on the fine finish!
    Ed
    PS give HI s to the HO s

  4. Good job Doug, I do admire your commitment to your community in
    advocating & fostering a running lifestyle. I am sure you
    coached/motivated/inspired many a runner in your day. Kudos. Now
    having said that allow me to place this under the lens of scrutinty.
    Per the article...

    "Lane's winning time was 3 hours, 52 minutes, 4 seconds, an average of
    7:28 per mile for the 31.1 hilly miles at Norrie. Henderson, a
    36-year-old from Sayville, Long Island, was next in 3:58:56. It was
    Henderson's first time under 4 hours for the distance and represented a
    five-minute, personal-best time for 50km. Lane's finish was the 11th
    fastest in race history, and he became the 10th man to break the 4-hour
    barrier since the race's inception in 1996. Henderson's time was 15th
    fastest in race history, and he is the 11th man to dip under 4:00."

    Honestly, on first blush, this "hype" over Lane in context to these
    times struck me as....huh? These are times to rave over? So before
    I passed judgement...I looked up some of Lane's times over the
    years...looked up lots of our (New York) regional times at
    http://www.newyorkultrarunning.org/

    In sum, after being informed, reviewed, and briefed....I am not
    impressed. I did extensive research on Lane's history....and I
    honestly believe assuming I am healthy, I can break 4 hours for a 50K
    the very first time I try one. I simply do see many competitive fields
    at that ny ultra site in scanning results over the races and
    years...nothing like what I am used to every single time I race.

    Why do I say that? I BQ'ed my first Marathon, NYC (tough course) w/a
    3:18 with no LSD training. Zero, none. When I did that in '03 my 1/2M
    time was 1:31 and I had only raced in 2 Half Marathons and 1 18 Mile
    race, my BMI was slightly over 26 at the time too.

    Now? My BMI is down to 25, Half-M to 1:27. I am significantly faster
    now, at distance, than I was in '03. Boston & NYC '04, NYC '05....all
    tales of injury...never even should have entered NYC'05. Wanna good
    laugh and a shot of me down & in the dumps in agony Doug?
    http://brightroom.com/view_user_photo.asp?EVENTID=7803&PWD=&ID=18911996&FROM=photos&BIB=5751

    Doug I give you much props for predicting well what in fact happened
    to me (long term injury in trying to run NYC). I still have pain in
    the knee, but I can run now at about 60% or for 5 miles. It doesn't
    feel like anything degenerative is taking place in doing so, it's
    bearable. I am wearing Brooks Trance shoes (fancy boats) & running
    with the girlfriend and together....these two keep me at a slow pace
    wherein I can sustain putting in some distance. It's been 4
    consecutive days now and each day feels better.

    You know damn well I run in snow and zero degrees too. Ok, my hills
    are road surface...but my training course is hilly. Yes I know the
    transition to dirt/trails...i'm not sweating it. I'm coming back Doug
    and I am going to first find a Spring Trail 1/2M in the region...and
    eventually do one of these trail 50K races. It in fact would be nice
    to get out of New York City and have a reduced field of competition. I
    just have to focus on smart training, stretching before/after...and
    employing preventative methods/practices to reduce risk of injury in
    being a runner. i.e, using the Stick, Balls, etc...there's an array
    of things I never employed pre or post training runs and racing. I
    gotta improve that part of my game.

    Had I never got injured I'd be racing tonight, indoor, 800m. I think
    Donovan's racing the mile tonight indoors at the New Balance Track
    facility/Armory in Washington Heights/Manhattan.

  5. Quoted message said:

    You know damn well I run in snow and zero degrees too. Ok, my hills
    are road surface...but my training course is hilly. Yes I know the
    transition to dirt/trails...i'm not sweating it. I'm coming back Doug

    Road surface and incline make a huge difference.

    Don't think hilly training courses. Central park hills are relatively gentle
    and the paved surface really helps you run faster. I think a better comparison
    would be the Vanny cross country course -- dirt surface and severe hills. I ran
    17:46 on that thing in about 16:40 shape.

    Still, I agree that you're not going to get as deep a field in an ultra. It's
    very much a niche sport. The local NYRR races bring in guys like Henwood
    (former olympian), Downin (national class, legit olympic trials contender) and
    Kabiso (who's good enough to challenge the other guys) And these semi-elite
    guys are just the local team-points regulars -- let's not even get started on
    those races where the world class guys show up (Mottram, Kastor, Meb, Ramaala,
    etc)

    Quoted message said:

    Had I never got injured I'd be racing tonight, indoor, 800m. I think
    Donovan's racing the mile tonight indoors at the New Balance Track
    facility/Armory in Washington Heights/Manhattan.

    Doubling in the mile/800. Just got myself a nice pair of $20- track spikes.

    Cheers,
    --
    Donovan Rebbechi
    http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

  6. Quoted message said:

    In sum, after being informed, reviewed, and briefed....I am not
    impressed. I did extensive research on Lane's history....and I
    honestly believe assuming I am healthy, I can break 4 hours for a 50K
    the very first time I try one.


    Wow, do you really believe this? I'm no expert on ultra/trail stuff
    (only done one 50K to date), but I think you're way off base here. I'm
    roughly 30 minutes faster than you in the marathon, and I would not
    feel at all confident about running that same race under 4 hours.
    Maybe after a couple of tries at the distance but not on the first try.

    I think your chances of going sub-4 on the first try would be less than
    1%.

  7. "Doug Freese" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/SPORT
    S06/601120313/1002/NEWS

    Quoted message said:


    ...
    For some people a 5k loop is boring but there is the advantage of
    passing your car every 5k to eat and drink. No need to carry anything,
    add and subtract layers of clothes plus you get to watch people. There


    ....

    Yes, perfect for training, and for a free race like that.

    Quoted message said:

    ...
    trying to hold a steady pace. After the fact we had averaged 9:03 but we
    had stopped for about a minute at each lap to eat, drink, change
    clothes, potty stop, etc. so we likely averaged about 8:45. Not to bad
    for a 50k when our longest run was 14 miles.

    Damn good for training I'd say! The stopping part is so true for training
    loops. It adds up really quickly. In my first 50 mile at finger lakes 50's
    it was so easy to stop and waste time at the finish area, and I killed over
    30 mins in 3 stops there. In training it's not a problem but in an ultra
    race it's a learned skill to get everything you'll need but be fast. It's a
    similar skill to stop immediately to get that stick out of your shoe so it
    doesn't hobble you later.

    But what to do when you come to that scenic spot? Some stop to take
    pictures. Someone in the escarpment trail run I passed going up Blackhead
    was taking a picture. Not that I'm competitive, but if I'm in a race I'm
    focused and don't want to stop. In training, I love to stop and stretch,
    take in scenic views, and even eat lunch on occasion. Long runs as a
    backcountry journey are in many ways far more enjoyable than races for that
    reason.

    -Tony

  8. Quoted message said:

    I think your chances of going sub-4 on the first try would be less than


    1%.
    ____

    care to be accurate Tom? 2 years ago i bq'ed my first time running a
    marathon..... with zero LSD training/running....i ran 3:18 on nyc's
    course with a 1:31 1/2M & 26+ bmi. i now am a 1:27 1/2M (on a hilly
    course) w/a bmi of 25. 42 Minutes Tom...from 3:18, not as you say,
    "roughly 30 minutes".

    the key for me is to stay healthy in doing this stuff we do. as for
    the odds?...please....i've accomplished bigger things with slimmer
    odds....give me a break tom b....your 1% is so absurd i can't even
    entertain or have fun your playing "jimmy the greek". nice shot
    though.

  9. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think your chances of going sub-4 on the first try would be less than


    1%.
    ____

    care to be accurate Tom? 2 years ago i bq'ed my first time running a
    marathon..... with zero LSD training/running....i ran 3:18 on nyc's
    course with a 1:31 1/2M & 26+ bmi. i now am a 1:27 1/2M (on a hilly
    course) w/a bmi of 25. 42 Minutes Tom...from 3:18, not as you say,
    "roughly 30 minutes".


    Good work on the math, Lance! Now let's work on that reading
    comprehension. If you re-read my post, you might just uncover what
    "roughly 30 minutes" refers to.

    Quoted message said:

    the key for me is to stay healthy in doing this stuff we do. as for
    the odds?...please....i've accomplished bigger things with slimmer
    odds....give me a break tom b....your 1% is so absurd i can't even
    entertain or have fun your playing "jimmy the greek". nice shot
    though.


    OK, so it sounds like you were serious here, and not "Lance-trolling".
    I was being generous with the 1% estimate. The best way for you to
    prove me wrong is to get out there and bust off a sub-4. Oops, forgot
    about your bulletproof excuse...

  10. Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    I think your chances of going sub-4 on the first try would be less than


    1%.
    ____

    care to be accurate Tom? 2 years ago i bq'ed my first time running a
    marathon..... with zero LSD training/running....i ran 3:18 on nyc's
    course with a 1:31 1/2M & 26+ bmi. i now am a 1:27 1/2M (on a hilly
    course) w/a bmi of 25. 42 Minutes Tom...from 3:18, not as you say,
    "roughly 30 minutes".

    Lance, you're just getting worked up over nothing. Read what he said.
    He said his marathon time is roughly 30 minutes faster than your marathon.

    Anyway, let's put your figures and claims under a little scrutiny.

    Your marathon PR = 3:18 => 7:23 pace
    At 7:23 pace, you would finish a 50K in 3:54 - just barely under 4:00.
    And we know it gets harder to hold the same pace as the distance increases.

    Tom's marathon PR = 2:45 => 6:18 pace
    At 6:18 pace, he would finish a 50K in 3:15 - 3 minutes faster than your
    marathon PR.

    Looks like Tom is overly pessimistic about his own abilities.
    You are overly optimistic. You think you can wake up and get
    out of bed and "conquer" a 50K, just like that.

    Two years ago, you were younger. Today, you are older and injured.
    Even to get back to a 3:18 level will take you some time. Forget
    doing a 50K in 4:00. In fact, I think you'll never be able to do so.
    Just concentrate on the 1/2M, M distances while you still can.

    Quoted message said:

    the key for me is to stay healthy in doing this stuff we do. as for
    the odds?...please....i've accomplished bigger things with slimmer
    odds....give me a break tom b....your 1% is so absurd i can't even
    entertain or have fun your playing "jimmy the greek". nice shot
    though.

    Ah, so "jimmy the greek" (whatever that means) doesn't like it
    when others play "jimmy the greek" on him. But seriously, I don't
    think his 1% is too off the mark. I'd put it closer to 0.67%.
    There is a 0.67% chance that you'll do a sub-4:00 50K on your first try.

    Bottom line, Lance, is that potential is just that - potential.
    It's no use until and unless it's translated into reality.

    jobs

  11. Quoted message said:

    marathon PR = 3:18 => 7:23 pace


    At 7:23 pace, you would finish a 50K in 3:54 - just barely under 4:00.
    And we know it gets harder to hold the same pace as the distance
    increases.
    ___

    jobs....the foundation of your arguments was when i had a bmi of 26+
    and a 1/2M PR of 1:31. Yes...I am older...but the bottom line is I am
    much faster today slightly slimmer...than your reference points.
    1:27 1/2M & BMI 25. I guess you don't want to factor that reality
    into the speculation.....do you?

    Quoted message said:

    You think you can wake up and get


    out of bed and "conquer" a 50K, just like that.

    Well...that's exactly precisely what I did in the NYC Marathon...no
    training, never did it, I just showed up and BQ'ed. That's literally
    what I did, that's how I race. Yeah...I think I can do it.

    You used the term "conquer", not me, but to answer your question, yes.
    I agree, talk is cheap, action speaks louder than words. I am eye'ing
    some races in Maryland/PA/NJ/NY/CT....and I think I'll be able to get
    back in racing shape by April.

    Ya know Tony S. & Jobs...you guys could invite me to one of these
    killer trail races. I see this race out my way called Mudders &
    Grunters...but at 5 miles it's a bit short. I'm looking for a 15K or
    1/2M before I try a 50K.

  12. Quoted message said:

    OK, so it sounds like you were serious here.

    thanks tom...i was being very serious. i do need to get out of the
    city and hit trails and balance out my running & racing. I am
    projecting to be 100% race ready in April and am eye'ing the two races
    below, one is a Half M and the other is a 30K.

    http://www.windcoweb.com/hookhalf/
    Hook Mountain Half-Marathon

    http://www.sullivanstriders.org/30k.htm
    Wurstboro Moutain 30K

    Now the downside of entering these events is in looking at them & their
    times, I think I will win 1st place in my age group in both. In fact
    I'll set the Masters Course record if I enter that Hook Mountain
    Half-Marathon. This prospect of this is not fulfilling and it makes
    me wonder why Yannis does this...enters races where no one can compete
    against him. No, I would not dominate my AG like he does....but I will
    win my AG in both it seems to me.

    Please...if anyone knows of a competitive trail race of 15K-30 in a
    distance within 2 hours drive of NYC...let me know....as soon as
    April...perhaps late March. Otherwise I will enter one of these races
    and just do it.

  13. [email hidden] wrote:
    .....

    Quoted message said:

    Ya know Tony S. & Jobs...you guys could invite me to one of these
    killer trail races. I see this race out my way called Mudders &
    Grunters...but at 5 miles it's a bit short. I'm looking for a 15K or
    1/2M before I try a 50K.

    Sorry, but I'm not into trail races. I'm not strong enough yet.
    For now, I'm just going to concentrate on the 5K where I think I
    have the potential to go sub-12:37.35. Just have to train a bit.
    And knock off 7+ minutes from my current PR.

    Good luck finding a race.
    jobs

  14. <[email hidden]> wrote> http://www.windcoweb.com/hookhalf/

    Quoted message said:

    Hook Mountain Half-Marathon

    http://www.sullivanstriders.org/30k.htm
    Wurstboro Moutain 30K

    Now the downside of entering these events is in looking at them & their
    times, I think I will win 1st place in my age group in both.

    Quoted message said:

    In fact I'll set the Masters Course record if I enter that Hook Mountain
    Half-Marathon.

    The 2005 40+ HM winner ran a 1:21. What's your best on flat roads?

    You've got to look at the elevation profile. In a 1/2 marathon I ran last
    year with a 1800' climb & matching descent, all on dirt, the winner (with a
    1:06 hm on the flat) ran 1:15. Most folks ran 10-14 minutes slower than a
    road course.

    So you can use that as a guide if you can get the elevation profile.

    -- Dan

  15. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    OK, so it sounds like you were serious here.

    thanks tom...i was being very serious. i do need to get out of the
    city and hit trails and balance out my running & racing. I am
    projecting to be 100% race ready in April and am eye'ing the two races
    below, one is a Half M and the other is a 30K.

    http://www.windcoweb.com/hookhalf/
    Hook Mountain Half-Marathon

    This race is run in the area where I do a majority of my long run training.
    It's mostly flat, except when you're going down the steep hill to the river,
    and when you come back up it. It's a seriously steep hill for a road race.
    About 2/3 is on road, and 1/3 on cinder trail. Very scenic, but not really a
    trail race in my book. Let me know if you decide to do this one; it's right
    in my area. I could give you a taste of the real trails in the area that I
    run on.

    Quoted message said:

    http://www.sullivanstriders.org/30k.htm
    Wurstboro Moutain 30K

    I ran the roosa gap roller coaster on wurtsboro mountiain back in '94. It
    appears the 30k goes up the same mountain (there's really only one mountain
    there). One monster hill and then rollers, but all road. If it's like the
    roller coaster, it will cook your quads coming back down the mountain unless
    you train for that.

    Quoted message said:

    Now the downside of entering these events is in looking at them & their
    times, I think I will win 1st place in my age group in both. In fact
    I'll set the Masters Course record if I enter that Hook Mountain
    Half-Marathon. This prospect of this is not fulfilling and it makes
    me wonder why Yannis does this...enters races where no one can compete
    against him. No, I would not dominate my AG like he does....but I will
    win my AG in both it seems to me.

    Don't count on it; it's a challenging course.

    Quoted message said:

    Please...if anyone knows of a competitive trail race of 15K-30 in a
    distance within 2 hours drive of NYC...let me know....as soon as
    April...perhaps late March. Otherwise I will enter one of these races
    and just do it.

    Unless there's something I don't know about in Jersey, it's tough to find
    many real trail races within 2 hours of NYC. The Reading PA area has deep
    fields, and I think the Albany area does also.

    -Tony

  16. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    marathon PR = 3:18 => 7:23 pace


    At 7:23 pace, you would finish a 50K in 3:54 - just barely under 4:00.
    And we know it gets harder to hold the same pace as the distance
    increases.
    ___

    jobs....the foundation of your arguments was when i had a bmi of 26+
    and a 1/2M PR of 1:31. Yes...I am older...but the bottom line is I am
    much faster today slightly slimmer...than your reference points.
    1:27 1/2M & BMI 25. I guess you don't want to factor that reality
    into the speculation.....do you?

    Quoted message said:

    You think you can wake up and get


    out of bed and "conquer" a 50K, just like that.

    Well...that's exactly precisely what I did in the NYC Marathon...no
    training, never did it, I just showed up and BQ'ed. That's literally
    what I did, that's how I race. Yeah...I think I can do it.

    You used the term "conquer", not me, but to answer your question, yes.
    I agree, talk is cheap, action speaks louder than words. I am eye'ing
    some races in Maryland/PA/NJ/NY/CT....and I think I'll be able to get
    back in racing shape by April.

    Ya know Tony S. & Jobs...you guys could invite me to one of these
    killer trail races. I see this race out my way called Mudders &
    Grunters...but at 5 miles it's a bit short. I'm looking for a 15K or
    1/2M before I try a 50K.

    What are you looking for? A course that will beat the [censored] out of you? In
    that case, you could do some orienteering this Spring - a blue course will
    run 1:10 to 1:30 for the top guys - and there's nothing more brutal IMO than
    a hard-run orienteering course. Of course you'd need to learn map & compass
    skills, and that would take years to master. (They've had orienteering in
    central park also). Trail races, even the escarpment trail, are pieces of
    cake compared to orienteering.

    The annual "A" meet at West Point is May 6-7 this year. You run both days,
    for 1:10-1:30 mins each day, unless you get lost, in which case you'll be
    out there longer. The West Point cadets set tough courses, and the terrain
    up there is the most brutal I've ever orienteered on - extremely rocky, very
    hilly, many swamps. The last time I ran at west point (about 5 years ago) I
    got lost for 15 minutes trying to find one control (checkpoint). The blue
    course is so tough, it's only for age 21 to 35, though sometimes older folks
    run it. Age group races for 35 and up move to shorter courses, first the red
    course, then the green course, and eventually the even shorter brown course.
    I'm hoping I can get into good enough shape to run the lesser red course at
    west point this year.

    http://www.us.orienteering.org/

    If perchance you want to try this, there are active local clubs close to the
    city. But seriously, there just aren't a whole lot of trail races around
    NYC.

    -Tony

  17. Doug Freese said:

    http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060112/SPORTS06/601120313/1002/NEWS

    'Tis interesting to have Pillsbury Doughboy as ad on the page 😉 For
    some reason that just caught my eye.

    Quoted message said:

    For the first two laps we had a guy tag along who was telling an old
    Boston tale of hitting the med tent with a calf cramp and then
    strapping him down and off the hospital with ice on his testicles. All
    the time he is saying I have a cramp in my calf. He gets to the
    hospital and the ER doc verifies, yes he has a calf cramp and off he
    goes home. We are running and laughing almost to the point we have to
    stop. This started all the shrinkage jokes and did he ever have
    kids,etc. It went verbally down hill from there. We got about 7 laps out
    of that plus a few other war stories that crawl out of the closest after
    I wake up.

    What many people don't realize is this is the ultimate test of running
    at conversational effort 😉

    Quoted message said:


    After the fact we had averaged 9:03 but we

    Quoted message said:

    had stopped for about a minute at each lap to eat, drink, change
    clothes, potty stop, etc. so we likely averaged about 8:45. Not to bad
    for a 50k when our longest run was 14 miles.

    not too shabby!

    Quoted message said:


    Dot, you may know Alicja Barahona from her Iditarod record of 7 days 16
    hours

    I didn't, but I just looked. Very impressive! (Sometimes they just
    report outright winner - regardless of division run/bike/ski or sex - so
    I hadn't noticed the breakdown by division and sex and route before.) I
    probably saw her at the start last year, but obviously wouldn't know her 😉

    Quoted message said:


    P.S. I never knew she had won last year.


    Women tend to do without a lot of fanfare. Julie's still Julie, even
    with her successes outside last summer.

    Dot

    --
    "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste
    away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog

  18. Quoted message said:

    http://www.windcoweb.com/hookhalf/
    Hook Mountain Half-Marathon

    http://www.sullivanstriders.org/30k.htm
    Wurstboro Moutain 30K

    Now the downside of entering these events is in looking at them & their
    times, I think I will win 1st place in my age group in both.

    Wurstboro Mountain 30K has what looks like at 1000' climb over the first
    3.5M and then some rollers before a long downhill and finally a slight
    uphill/flat final 10K. 2005 40 YO winning time 2:17:31

    Quoted message said:

    In fact
    I'll set the Masters Course record if I enter that Hook Mountain
    Half-Marathon.

    Master course record: 1:12:19
    2005 40 YO winning time: 1:21:30

    Lance, you're so full of [censored] on this, it's not even very entertaining.
    I have an acquaintance who dised trail/ultra runners almost as much as
    you but unlike you, has run over 15 sub 3 marathons. He does at least
    train on serious hills/trails so had some appreciation for what was
    involved. But he still thought that because he is a 2:50 marathoner, all
    he had to do was show up and win. Well, I finally convinced him to enter
    a low key local 50K. He too thought he would break 4 hours easily. At
    mile 20, where you came back through the start/finish area, he dropped
    after taking 3:00 to do those first 20 miles. True he was in first place
    at the time but at mile 10 he had a 12 minute lead over 2nd and 16 over
    3rd. By M20 that lead was down to less than a minute, there were 5 other
    runners within 3 minutes and his pace was dropping like a rock. By his
    own admission, if he had continued he would have finished no higher than
    10th out of 50 finishers and would have been beaten by at least 2 women :-)

    So please do one or both of those races and then post a race report. I
    can always use a good laugh!
    --
    - The Trailrunner

    Anti-Spam Alert: If you wish to reply, cut the *BS*

    Trails of the Diablo Valley
    *Running - Hiking - Nature*
    http://www.geocities.com/yosemite/trails/6016/

  19. "The Trailrunner" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Lance, you're so full of [censored] on this, it's not even very
    entertaining. I have an acquaintance who dised trail/ultra runners
    almost as much as you but unlike you, has run over 15 sub 3 marathons.
    He does at least train on serious hills/trails so had some
    appreciation for what was involved. But he still thought that because
    he is a 2:50 marathoner, all he had to do was show up and win. Well, I
    finally convinced him to enter a low key local 50K. He too thought he
    would break 4 hours easily.

    More anecdote:

    For years I would bump into the Lance's at the Escarpment Trail race.
    Now this is dinky 30k with the record around 2:50. The entry form for
    this race is about 4-5 pages describing the difficulty of the race and
    suggests to add about an hour to one's best marathon time. Each year
    the redliners with reading challenges, or should I say inflated egos,
    would come to the race first off in racing flats. A usual giveaway.
    When asked they would say the course record soft.

    There is an aid station at mile 12, Dutchers Notch for those that have
    run the race, which is were the Lance's discover reality and they sit
    for a long while and then either walk the rest of the race or come out
    with aid station crew.

    Jim, he's a road weenie and hasn't got any idea what he is talking about
    but we must give him the benefit of the doubt for now. 😉
    He is such a head case, I doubt he will get off the injured reserve
    list long enough to do anything but use his keyboard.

    -Doug

  20. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    Good job Doug, I do admire your commitment to your community in
    advocating & fostering a running lifestyle. I am sure you
    coached/motivated/inspired many a runner in your day. Kudos. Now
    having said that allow me to place this under the lens of scrutinty.
    Per the article...

    Why thank you lance.

    Quoted message said:


    "Lane's winning time was 3 hours, 52 minutes, 4 seconds, an average of
    7:28 per mile for the 31.1 hilly miles at Norrie. Henderson, a
    36-year-old from Sayville, Long Island, was next in 3:58:56. It was
    Henderson's first time under 4 hours for the distance and represented
    a
    five-minute, personal-best time for 50km. Lane's finish was the 11th
    fastest in race history, and he became the 10th man to break the
    4-hour
    barrier since the race's inception in 1996. Henderson's time was 15th
    fastest in race history, and he is the 11th man to dip under 4:00."

    Honestly, on first blush, this "hype" over Lane in context to these
    times struck me as....huh? These are times to rave over? So before
    I passed judgement...I looked up some of Lane's times over the
    years...looked up lots of our (New York) regional times at
    http://www.newyorkultrarunning.org/

    Let me help you with FA events so you can save some keystrokes and keep
    you from making a bigger fool out of yourself. These are off season
    events and people come to these not so much for competition but to get a
    long run and test some facit of their training. It's January and winter
    in the NE in case you forgot and most distance runners are just starting
    to ramp up for spring races. The fact that we finished 4th should have
    been the clue. So, to look at race times of any individual runner is of
    no value, acutally silly. Someday I hope you will understand that not
    everyone that shows up a race is there to run hard.

    Quoted message said:

    In sum, after being informed, reviewed, and briefed....I am not
    impressed.

    I don't think anyone was trying to impress you, The subject was "How I
    spent last Sunday" - just a day, nothing more. Isn't this a running
    board, where things about running are discussed? Are you suggesting we
    shouldn't talk about a "race" unless we go balls to the wall? Are you
    that pumped with testosterone it limits your thought process?
    Rhetorical!

    You may but I don't usually jump from 14 to 31 miles in my long run.
    OTOH, I, and those that I run with, have years of distance base and can
    do it without repercussions. It lets me know a little about my condition
    on my time line which we all strive to know at any given point. The fact
    that I took off Monday, ran 1/2 hour Tuesday, and an hour Wednesday and
    Thursday, is a good sign. To repeat, this is what FAT ASS races are all
    about.

    Quoted message said:

    eventually do one of these trail 50K races.

    Good goal. Try the HAT run some year in March. It's an easy trail and
    fun. Used by many as their first.

    -DF

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