Real hubs, Revolution spokes

I got a Real road hub from cambria bikes beginning this year. The cassette body has some play, i.e.
it slide in and out with play about 1mm. So your cassette ended up sliding back/forth(?) or
in/out(?) for about 1mm-2mm. Due to that reason, when I was pedaling on my largest gear (25t), the
chain eventually "shift" into the empty space between the 25t cog and the drive-side spokes, causing
the rear der + hanger bend into wheel and the entire bike flip over and I took a tumble and crash
hard into the pavement. That's my experience with Real hub.

Kwan

"Mark Vieselmeyer" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any opinions on Real hubs? I saw some for about 80% off, and was

wondering

Quoted message said:

if there's some problem with them, or reason why they're so heavily discounted.

I'm also interested in whether the 14/17/14 DT Revolution spokes would be sturdy enough for me (I
weigh about 215lbs). I'd be using them with

32-hole

Quoted message said:

MA2 700c rims.

Thanks for any input!

- mark

check out mtbreview.com there is some discussion on repairing the hub B

(remove clothes to reply)

Mark-<< I'm also interested in whether the 14/17/14 DT Revolution spokes would be sturdy enough for
me (I weigh about 215lbs). I'd be using them with 32-hole MA2 700c rims. >><BR><BR>

I wouldn't recommend using them on the rear. Probably the front would be OK, ride thinking 'light
thoughts'.

Using them on the rear makes no sense for somebody of your or any other's size. Does nothing,
answers no question, solves no problem, makes for a less reliable wheel.

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted message said:

I wouldn't recommend using them on the rear.

For a person who has ridden 15ga, 32 spoke rears for 10+ years w/o any spoke damage, wouldn't a 36
spoke revolution rear be OK. The literature says that the 14/17/14 spokes are stronger than the
15/16/15 spokes.

B

(remove clothes to reply)

Belij-<< For a person who has ridden 15ga, 32 spoke rears for 10+ years w/o any spoke damage,
wouldn't a 36 spoke revolution rear be OK. The literature says that the 14/17/14 spokes are stronger
than the 15/16/15 spokes. >><BR><BR>

Well the literature says that 14g striaght spokes are stronger strength to weight, than double butts
but don't make for a stronger wheel. I think 14/17 are too thin for a rear, I would use 15/16 way
before 14/17

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Qui si parla Campagnolo <[email hidden]> wrote:
: Belij-<< For a person who has ridden 15ga, 32 spoke rears for 10+ years w/o any spoke damage,
: wouldn't a 36 spoke revolution rear be OK. The literature says that the 14/17/14 spokes are
: stronger than the 15/16/15 spokes. >><BR><BR>

: Well the literature says that 14g striaght spokes are stronger strength to weight, than double
: butts but don't make for a stronger wheel. I think 14/17 are too thin for a rear, I would use
: 15/16 way before 14/17

I did some searches through the rbt archives and it turns out this has been discussed a length
numerous times. Apparently the 14/17 spokes are difficult to work with because they twist too
easily. It sounds like more of a hassle than it's worth. So what would be the recommendation for a
light and reliable 32 spoke wheelset? Would 15/16 with 14/15 on the rear drive side be a
reasonable setup?

Thanks,

- mark

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Belij-<< For a person who has ridden 15ga, 32 spoke rears for 10+ years w/o any spoke damage,
wouldn't a 36 spoke revolution rear be OK. The literature says that the 14/17/14 spokes are
stronger than the 15/16/15 spokes. >><BR><BR>

Well the literature says that 14g striaght spokes are stronger strength to weight, than double
butts but don't make for a stronger wheel. I think 14/17 are too thin for a rear, I would use
15/16 way before 14/17

Excel Sports Boulder builds a wheel they call the Excel Sports Threat using King hubs, CXP-33 rims,
and Revolution spokes, 32 3x. They claim they are a "staff favorite for both training and racing."

Wayne

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I did some searches through the rbt archives and it turns out this has been discussed a length
numerous times. Apparently the 14/17 spokes are difficult to work with because they twist too
easily. It sounds like more of a hassle than it's worth. So what would be the recommendation for a
light and reliable 32 spoke wheelset? Would 15/16 with 14/15 on the rear drive side be a
reasonable setup?

I run 15/16 all around. No need to have different size nipples around.
-----------------
Alex __O _-\<,_ (_)/ (_)

Mark Vieselmeyer said:

Any opinions on Real hubs? I saw some for about 80% off, and was wondering if there's some problem
with them, or reason why they're so heavily discounted.

Quoted message said:

I'm also interested in whether the 14/17/14 DT Revolution spokes would be sturdy enough for me (I
weigh about 215lbs). I'd be using them with 32-hole MA2 700c rims.

If anyone has information of DT-Revolution spokes breaking at midspan, I'd like to hear about it.
These spokes don't have a failure problem but a building problem. The larger than usual thread
diameter causes more torque from thread friction while the slender mid-spans have strongly reduced
torsional rigidity (as the 4th power of diameter).

If you know how to build with these spokes then you can make good wheels that will last long. I'm
not a fan of oversized spoke holes in flanges or special nipples. That's why I choose 1.6-1.8mm
DT spokes.

You're lucky to still have MA-2 rims around.

Jobst Brandt [email hidden]

[email hidden] wrote:
: Mark Vieselmeyer writes:

:> Any opinions on Real hubs? I saw some for about 80% off, and was wondering if there's some
:> problem with them, or reason why they're so heavily discounted.

:> I'm also interested in whether the 14/17/14 DT Revolution spokes would be sturdy enough for me (I
:> weigh about 215lbs). I'd be using them with 32-hole MA2 700c rims.

: If anyone has information of DT-Revolution spokes breaking at midspan, I'd like to hear about it.
: These spokes don't have a failure problem but a building problem. The larger than usual thread
: diameter causes more torque from thread friction while the slender mid-spans have strongly reduced
: torsional rigidity (as the 4th power of diameter).

: If you know how to build with these spokes then you can make good wheels that will last long. I'm
: not a fan of oversized spoke holes in flanges or special nipples. That's why I choose 1.6-1.8mm
: DT spokes.

: You're lucky to still have MA-2 rims around.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised to find them. They've actually been sitting idle in my garage for
several years. They're on a cheap set of wheels I'd had on a beater bike that I almost never rode. I
noticed them while going through my junk for anything I could salvage for my latest project, and
recalled reading something here about certain individuals hoarding those particular rims, so I
figured it would be a shame to let them go to waste.

Anyway, thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

- mark

regarding those MA2 rims-- I have a pair of new ones in my garage (and just built up a set of wheels
with another new pair that I haven't even used yet).

When I went to my LBS for spokes, I was strongly recommended not to build wheels with those rims
'unless you got 'em for free or something,' because, he said, he'd had many failures with MA2's
over the years. He tried to sell me CXP-33's. I still consider myself lucky to have an extra set
of rims...

In article said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

: You're lucky to still have MA-2 rims around.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised to find them. They've actually been sitting idle in my garage for
several years. They're on a cheap set of wheels I'd had on a beater bike that I almost never rode.
I noticed them while going through my junk for anything I could salvage for my latest project, and
recalled reading something here about certain individuals hoarding those particular rims, so I
figured it would be a shame to let them go to waste.

Anyway, thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

- mark

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

Belij-<< For a person who has ridden 15ga, 32 spoke rears for 10+ years w/o any spoke damage,
wouldn't a 36 spoke revolution rear be OK. The literature says that the 14/17/14 spokes are
stronger than the 15/16/15 spokes. >><BR><BR>

Well the literature says that 14g striaght spokes are stronger strength to weight, than double
butts but don't make for a stronger wheel. I think 14/17 are too thin for a rear, I would use 15/16
way before 14/17

FWIW, I've built up some wheels for light riders with 14/17 on the left and 14/15 on the right.
Since the left spokes have much lower tension, it works out that BOTH sides of the wheel have spokes
tensioned to their optimum level.

I can't swear this really makes a difference over an otherwise well-built wheel using ONLY 14/15
spokes, but I haven't had any problems with 'em.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

Wayne-<< Excel Sports Boulder builds a wheel they call the Excel Sports Threat using King hubs,
CXP-33 rims, and Revolution spokes, 32 3x. They claim they are a "staff favorite for both training
and racing." >><BR><BR>

What bunk. They also made a 14/15 right, 3 cross and 2 cross left using revs on an Open Pro, that
breaks spokes with regularity. Making a CXP-33 with revs on the rear means a less reliable wheel.
Favorite for training-yikes..How much more do those 32 Revs weigh compared to
14/15??

My understanding is that spoke durability is a function of stress relief and proper tension or
lack thereof, and not a function of spoke gauge. It also seems to me that the advantage of ultra
thin spokes from a performance (speed) perspective is not due to less weight, which is pretty
minimal, but from reduced wind resistance at high speed. Of course, this may be minimal too in
some people's opinion.

Wayne

Qui si parla Campagnolo said:

wpein-<< My understanding is that spoke durability is a function of stress relief and proper
tension or lack thereof, and not a function of spoke gauge. >><BR><BR>

No such thing as a free lunch. Thin spokes make for a less reliable wheel, all else being equal.
These CXP/Revs are for selling. An Open Pro with 14/15 would weigh less, cost less and be more
reliable.

There must be a reason for their reduced reliability, and it must be because the wheels were not
built as well for whatever reason. If the builder does not achieve sufficient tension due to the
thin spokes, then it could be because the builder didn't go the extra mile to do so. It seems to me
Revs require additional effort to build correctly.

Quoted message said:

wpein-<< It also seems to me that the advantage of ultra thin spokes from a performance (speed)
perspective is not due to less weight, which is pretty minimal, but from reduced wind resistance
at high speed. >><BR><BR>

errrr...how much advanyage do ya think there would be? From spaokes that are
1.8mm thick to 1.5mm thick??

That would be .3 mm X 32 spokes = .96 mm or almost a centimeter. Figure about 20 centimeters long.
So, about 20 square centimeters of additional surface area churning up wind resistance. I'll let
others decide if that is significant or not.

Wayne

Jobst knows his stuff. Listen to him. Build your wheels correctly and tension them as needed. I
commute on some of the worst roads in the country and have had exactly one broken spoke on my 32
spoke wheels. I'm talking about wheels I built myself in 1997 with Revs and alloy nips. Good tension
creats a single rolling unit. The rim doesn't know the difference. Spend the extra dough to have a
guru build your wheels. My other tip is to ride bigger tires. More air over the rims will save you a
lot of headaches if you're 215 lbs like the dude who started the thread. I like any of the high-end
Michelins in 25c.

By the way, riding light wheels does make a difference, mainly if you're racing. Otherwise I
recommend 15g straight spokes and brass nips. Cheap and light enough! Enjoy,
J.

Michael <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

regarding those MA2 rims-- I have a pair of new ones in my garage (and just built up a set of
wheels with another new pair that I haven't even used yet).

When I went to my LBS for spokes, I was strongly recommended not to build wheels with those rims
'unless you got 'em for free or something,' because, he said, he'd had many failures with MA2's
over the years. He tried to sell me CXP-33's. I still consider myself lucky to have an extra set
of rims...

In article said:

[email hidden] wrote:

Quoted message said:

: You're lucky to still have MA-2 rims around.

Yeah, I was kind of surprised to find them. They've actually been sitting idle in my garage for
several years. They're on a cheap set of wheels I'd had on a beater bike that I almost never
rode. I noticed them while going through my junk for anything I could salvage for my latest
project, and recalled reading something here about certain individuals hoarding those particular
rims, so I figured it would be a shame to let them go to waste.

Anyway, thanks, everyone, for the feedback.

- mark

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

Jobst knows his stuff. Listen to him.

snip

Quoted message said:

Otherwise I recommend 15g straight spokes

That's not listening to Jobst! :-)

Rick