Mirror, mirror, on the bar...

I use one on the MTB/commuter. I have a few points where I need to
change lanes and like the mirror to assist in deciding when to do the
lane change. Never had one on the road bike and never had the need.

DaveB

I changed from bar end to helmet mount because the bar end was always being knocked out of focus. (yes, its dorky!)

Re wasteing too much time looking at it I reckon the same frequency that they tell you to use your motor vehicle mirrors applies, check about every 15 seconds- jest get into the habbit of doing it and you won't be surprised by the hoons who hoot every time they passes you!

Mike

SteppenW said:

Does it help you see the car?
Or does it simply cause distraction,
resulting in a cast and traction?

</poetry>

Do you have a opinion (well, of course you all do) on the use of bar-end
mirrors - good thing or bad? Have you used one and then junked it as a bad
idea, or would you not venture out on your morning commute without one? My
balance sheet so far:

Good:
You can see what's coming and take evasive action if it gets too close.

Bad:
Looks a bit dorky;
More wind resistance;
Spend more time watching out and less time looking ahead;
Less clearance - something else to smash.

Neil

I prefer a head-mounted mirror. There are several good reasons for this.
Being closer to the eye, it can be a lot smaller, so less wind
resistance, it's less subject to vibration through the frame, and it
doesn't go SMASH if you drop the bike on that side.
I wear glasses which provide a very convenient mounting, but you can
just as easily attach it to the helmet.
And it gives you fair warning of psychotic [censored] coming up in your
blind spot, which I for one appreciate, with good reason.
Cheers,
Ray.

SteppenW said:

Does it help you see the car?
Or does it simply cause distraction,
resulting in a cast and traction?

</poetry>

Do you have a opinion (well, of course you all do) on the use of bar-end
mirrors - good thing or bad? Have you used one and then junked it as a bad
idea, or would you not venture out on your morning commute without one? My
balance sheet so far:

Good:
You can see what's coming and take evasive action if it gets too close.

Bad:
Looks a bit dorky;
More wind resistance;
Spend more time watching out and less time looking ahead;
Less clearance - something else to smash.

Neil

I prefer a head-mounted mirror. There are several good reasons for this.
Being closer to the eye, it can be a lot smaller, so less wind
resistance, it's less subject to vibration through the frame, and it
doesn't go SMASH if you drop the bike on that side.
I wear glasses which provide a very convenient mounting, but you can
just as easily attach it to the helmet.
And it gives you fair warning of psychotic [censored] coming up in your
blind spot, which I for one appreciate, with good reason.
Cheers,
Ray.

SteppenW said:

Does it help you see the car?
Or does it simply cause distraction,
resulting in a cast and traction?

</poetry>

Do you have a opinion (well, of course you all do) on the use of bar-end
mirrors - good thing or bad?

Best 'traffic management device' around. It lets you predict traffic
behaviour, judge timing for manoeuvres, evaluate when you need to claim more
of the lane to discourage 'elbow shavers'. I feel somewhat at aloss when I
ride the trail MTB that has not got one. Mine's a handlebar mount, plugs
into the rear end of my unusual bar-ends and sits inboard of the handlebar
end, so dropping the bike and dislodging it, or bumping it as I pass cars in
traffic jams is not a problem. Anyhow I have solved the problem of leaning
or dropping the bike with a real cool kickstand a well.

Hope this diagram makes sense. The bar-ends have a rear-protruding section,
the mirror plugs in this and I set it inboard to get a good view past my
right thigh.

/__________\
I I _ I

Mirror

Disadvantages of the mirror? Oh I guess it is a bit dorky, but hey, I ride a
bike with a kickstand and mudguards!

Cheers
Peter

Peter Signorini said:

Mine's a handlebar mount, plugs into the rear end of my unusual bar-ends
and sits inboard of the handlebar end, so dropping the bike and dislodging
it, or bumping it as I pass cars in traffic jams is not a problem. Anyhow
I have solved the problem of leaning or dropping the bike with a real cool
kickstand a well.

Hope this diagram makes sense. The bar-ends have a rear-protruding
section, the mirror plugs in this and I set it inboard to get a good view
past my right thigh.

/__________\
I I _ I

Mirror

Oh, to see how it works you can sort of make out the mirror and bar-ends
here:
http://community.webshots.com/photo/512819351/1512828057074746151MjEcJH

Cheers
Peter

SteppenW said:

Do you have a opinion (well, of course you all do) on the use of bar-end
mirrors - good thing or bad?

I haven't used one although I did consider it at one point. I decided
against it for the following reasons:

1) I'm not paranoid about getting run over from behind. I reckon that
if someone were to do that there wouldn't be a lot I could do about it
even if I was aware of it given the speed differential.

2) It's my opinion that using your head to check for clearance etc adds
a very useful visual cue to other road users that you're about to change
course. It also facilitates eye contact and that sort of thing.

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

SteppenW said:

Does it help you see the car?

Better than any other mirror I've used.
Con: it can get knocked and the cheapies I use have to be counted as a
consumable, like tyres, etc.

Quoted message said:

Or does it simply cause distraction,

Only for a motorist that insists on driving behind me with high beam {:-).

Euan said:

1) I'm not paranoid about getting run over from behind. I reckon that
if someone were to do that there wouldn't be a lot I could do about it
even if I was aware of it given the speed differential.

Agree entirely. The mirror is all about more/easier information about your
road environment

Quoted message said:

2) It's my opinion that using your head to check for clearance etc adds
a very useful visual cue to other road users that you're about to change
course. It also facilitates eye contact and that sort of thing.

My visual cue is to signal with my arm. I will already have scoped the
traffic with the mirror first. Then I do a head check if traffic is heavy.

Quoted message said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

A good assessment of the traffic behind while comfortably riding a straight
course. A good proportion of my touring club colleagues, most of whom are
also regular commuters, find a mirror of some sort indispensible.

Cheers
Peter

Euan said:

2) It's my opinion that using your head to check for clearance etc adds
a very useful visual cue to other road users that you're about to change
course. It also facilitates eye contact and that sort of thing.

Good point. Most drivers notice when I glance over my shoulder,
assume that I want to change lanes and give me room - I can tell
this while still looking around. There's usually no need to signal -
I just raise my hand to acknowledge the courtesy.

If you don't regularly look back, you won't develop and maintain the
skill of not deviating while doing it, either.

--
Home page: http://members.westnet.com.au/mvw

TimC said:

On 2006-02-19, Aeek (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Euan said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

a) that it's not worth making a head check
b) greater frequency of checks
c) less dead time between looking forward and looking back

my mirrors http://www.flickr.com/photos/33362829@N00/46390839/

BEWARE most bar mirrors have curved glass - useful but deceptive.
Mirror shops can maybe convert them - my right is now flat.

That's why helmet mirrors are better -- even less dead time (none,
essentially, if you make good use of your peripheral vision for the
forward direction when using the mirror), and no need for a curved
mirror -- just scan your head to build up a picture of what's behind
you. Just beware the blind-spot in front of your mirror, which just
handily conceals the cars coming at you on a roundabout -- your brain
fills in blind spots with what it imagines is there, without you
sometimes being aware/remembering that it is there.

I use them to rule out whether I need to head-check.

Tim. Tim. Always head check.. always always always.

Sheesh.

Dave

Euan said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

a) that it's not worth making a head check
b) greater frequency of checks
c) less dead time between looking forward and looking back

my mirrors http://www.flickr.com/photos/33362829@N00/46390839/

BEWARE most bar mirrors have curved glass - useful but deceptive.
Mirror shops can maybe convert them - my right is now flat.

Andre

TimC said:

On 2006-02-19, dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

I use them to rule out whether I need to head-check.

Tim. Tim. Always head check.. always always always.

You misunderstand.

Mirror check, nope, road too busy, keep my line.

Or:

Mirror check, road appears to have a free spot for me. Headcheck --
oops, nope, there was a guy beside me, which my mirror missed. Better
keep my line.

Or:

Mirror check, road appears to have a free spot for me. Headcheck
confirmed, ok now move out.

It once came in very handy. The 4WD that got me in May last year -- I
had previously glanced in the mirror about 5 sec earlier, and it was
clear behind then. There were no side streets to speak of, and when
the 4WD pulled out, I didn't have time to do a headcheck (I would have
been less than 5m short of the 4WD when it started moving) -- I just
took my chances and moved out over the tram lines, because my brane
knew it was most likely still clear behind me. This turned an
accident that would have involved me going headfirst through the
driver's door window, into a glancing blow of their headlight --
something that made my leg hurt a bit for a few hours, but didn't
involve anything more than an anti-inflamitory to fix.

Heh. There's a song on now: "walk up the side of a mountain". Theme
song of Terrys road? Some would prefer the other bit -- "Swim in the
river, lie in the sun", although obviously they don't mean the Yarra.

OK sorry tim.. I dont actually headcheck on the pushy as often as on
the motorcyle.. On the motorcycle.. its think like a fighter pilot..
always know, on the pushy sometimes there is no point in knowing cos
you have less options.

Look at my other post for what I think is an undodgeable accident.

Dave

On 2006-02-19, Aeek (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

Euan said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

a) that it's not worth making a head check
b) greater frequency of checks
c) less dead time between looking forward and looking back

my mirrors http://www.flickr.com/photos/33362829@N00/46390839/

BEWARE most bar mirrors have curved glass - useful but deceptive.
Mirror shops can maybe convert them - my right is now flat.

That's why helmet mirrors are better -- even less dead time (none,
essentially, if you make good use of your peripheral vision for the
forward direction when using the mirror), and no need for a curved
mirror -- just scan your head to build up a picture of what's behind
you. Just beware the blind-spot in front of your mirror, which just
handily conceals the cars coming at you on a roundabout -- your brain
fills in blind spots with what it imagines is there, without you
sometimes being aware/remembering that it is there.

I use them to rule out whether I need to head-check.

--
TimC
Shame on you! Don't you love her? Girls don't want Kmart specials, they
want carbon - either as diamonds or as CF bikes! -- Tamyka in aus.bicycle

On 2006-02-19, dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:

Quoted message said:

TimC said:

I use them to rule out whether I need to head-check.

Tim. Tim. Always head check.. always always always.

You misunderstand.

Mirror check, nope, road too busy, keep my line.

Or:

Mirror check, road appears to have a free spot for me. Headcheck --
oops, nope, there was a guy beside me, which my mirror missed. Better
keep my line.

Or:

Mirror check, road appears to have a free spot for me. Headcheck
confirmed, ok now move out.

It once came in very handy. The 4WD that got me in May last year -- I
had previously glanced in the mirror about 5 sec earlier, and it was
clear behind then. There were no side streets to speak of, and when
the 4WD pulled out, I didn't have time to do a headcheck (I would have
been less than 5m short of the 4WD when it started moving) -- I just
took my chances and moved out over the tram lines, because my brane
knew it was most likely still clear behind me. This turned an
accident that would have involved me going headfirst through the
driver's door window, into a glancing blow of their headlight --
something that made my leg hurt a bit for a few hours, but didn't
involve anything more than an anti-inflamitory to fix.

Heh. There's a song on now: "walk up the side of a mountain". Theme
song of Terrys road? Some would prefer the other bit -- "Swim in the
river, lie in the sun", although obviously they don't mean the Yarra.

--
TimC
The triangle wheel was an improvement upon the square wheel:
It eliminates one bump. -- unknown

Peter Signorini said:

Euan said:

2) It's my opinion that using your head to check for clearance etc adds
a very useful visual cue to other road users that you're about to change
course. It also facilitates eye contact and that sort of thing.

My visual cue is to signal with my arm. I will already have scoped the
traffic with the mirror first. Then I do a head check if traffic is heavy.

I signal prior to maneuvering as is required by law. The head checks
give fellow road users more time to react, or not, to my intentions.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

A good assessment of the traffic behind while comfortably riding a straight
course.

I can ride a long way looking behind me without deviating one iota from
the straight and narrow. Practice practice practice :-)

Quoted message said:

A good proportion of my touring club colleagues, most of whom are
also regular commuters, find a mirror of some sort indispensible.

If it works for you and them, good. We're all different and one size
doesn't fit all?
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Aeek said:

Euan said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

a) that it's not worth making a head check

When is it not worth making a head check? I don't rely on my car
mirrors, buggered if I'd rely on a bike mirror if I had one. I would
have thought a head check would be mandatory if you're going to change
course?

Quoted message said:

b) greater frequency of checks

To what end? Not interested in what's behind me unless I'm maneuvering.

Quoted message said:

c) less dead time between looking forward and looking back

I'll give you that but I don't like the trade offs.
--
Cheers | ~~ __@
Euan | ~~ _-\<,
Melbourne, Australia | ~ (*)/ (*)

Euan said:

Aeek said:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2006 12:25:07 GMT, Euan <[email hidden]> wrote:

Quoted message said:

When is it not worth making a head check? I don't rely on my car
mirrors, buggered if I'd rely on a bike mirror if I had one. I would
have thought a head check would be mandatory if you're going to change

Exactly. I still need to head check to confirm its clear, but if I already know its not...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

b) greater frequency of checks

To what end? Not interested in what's behind me unless I'm maneuvering.

When I'm claiming the lane on a "country" road - to be more visible and ride on the good stripe.
I can comfortably monitor what's coming and move over early or head check.
I don't need that much road unless I'm hammering downhill,
and I can do without a headon beside me!

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

c) less dead time between looking forward and looking back

I'll give you that but I don't like the trade offs.

When I'm most concerned about the non-indicator ahead turning left anyway,
but I want to allow for, and maybe influence, the guy behind me too.
Especially when I'm constrained by a bike lane.

Andre

In aus.bicycle on Sun, 19 Feb 2006 03:15:07 GMT

Euan said:

Aeek said:

Euan said:

3) I can't see what possible information a mirror can give me which I
don't already get when using my head.

a) that it's not worth making a head check

When is it not worth making a head check? I don't rely on my car
mirrors, buggered if I'd rely on a bike mirror if I had one. I would
have thought a head check would be mandatory if you're going to change
course?

well.. when I'm riding the motorcycle, it goes like:
1) think "I want to change lanes"
2) mirror check.
2a) damn, something's there, OK, wait....
2b) nothing, put on indicator
3) head check
3a) ah. car there. OK, wait
3b) no car, let's go.

I can just use head checks, but the flick of eye to mirror is quick
enough.

I also like to scan them regularly to spot potential problems. Car
edging up beside me and so on. Part of the road picture. Not to
mention police cars.... Useful to know they are there!

Zebee