All students obviously travel by car

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Started a 5 day course at University of Central England today.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

But does it tell you where the cycle parking facilities are? Does it inform you that showers are
available? No!

But students never shower!

Back in the dim & distant recesses of the late 1970's when I embarked on my degree, very, very few
students travelled to & from uni by car. It was a *noticeable* thing when a student had a car.
Those that did tended to have wealthy parents who had provided the vehicle, or were working & doing
their courses part-time & sent on said course by their employer. Bog-standard undergrads couldn't
afford a car!

How times change... At my local uni *loads* of students are running cars - car parking is a major
problem. True - there's lots using bikes too, but there's a heck of a lot using cars.

When Vernon's daughter went off to uni - she was part of the normal student life - she ran a car, as
did his eldest son. This was funded by working outside of studies.

There was no-way, no-how I could have run a car on my student grant and I can't help but wonder how
students are doing it these days. Are they all working so much outside their studies to fund said
studies that a car is now *needed* to get them from home to work to uni??? Ican't help but think
that if sao much outside work goes on, studies *must* be suffering as a result.

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

Richard Bates <[email hidden]> wrote [something that was adequately
summarised in the Subject line].

It certainly seems that at Oxford a higher proportion of the undergraduates than of the academic
staff have cars here. I am wondering whether we ought to make it a (negative) selection criterion at
admissions.

When I were a lad we were astonished at the idea that there had only recently (remember, this was
when it were all trees round 'ere... which I suppose it still is) been a University regulation about
green lights on undergraduates' cars. I mean, that had obviously been at a costume-drama sort of
Peter Wimsey time in the past when only the sort of toff who could afford to run a car could be an
undergraduate here, before it got over-run by us grammar-school boys.

We are still riding around on our bikes (and in some of my colleagues' cases, waiting at bus-stops)
but a terrifying number of the Future Of The Nation that we mistakenly let in here these days spend
most of the time they are not on the phobile moan worrying about where to move the car so as to
avoid the next fine from the City's parking militia (who dress in Great War uniforms, except the
ones on mopeds who are dressed for Star Wars, and except that they do not use puttees).

And then there's Volvo Thursday. Don't start me off on that.

In article <[email hidden]>, one of infinite monkeys at the keyboard

of (wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) said:

Back in the dim & distant recesses of the late 1970's when I embarked on my degree, very, very few
students travelled to & from uni by car.

Likewise. Cambridge actively discouraged us from running cars.

Quoted message said:

How times change... At my local uni *loads* of students are running cars - car

Could that be down to the change in numbers of students? When it was predominantly the
relatively-intelligent young going to university, we cycled. Now it's every tom, [censored] and harry, and
a herd mentality dominates.

Quoted message said:

There was no-way, no-how I could have run a car on my student grant and I can't help but wonder
how students are doing it these days.

No grants. Socially-acceptable big loans. The idea of living on slender means has gone out of the
window for the herd.

--
Axis of Evil: Whose economy needs ever more wars? Arms Exports $bn: USA 14.2, UK 5.1, vs France 1.5,
Germany 0.8 (The Economist, July 2002)

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could that be down to the change in numbers of students? When it was predominantly the
relatively-intelligent young going to university, we

cycled.

Quoted message said:

Now it's every tom, [censored] and harry, and a herd mentality dominates.

I think this started in the late 1980s - when I was in *6th form* there were a number of students
who already had cars.

Alex

Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) comms room 2 said:

I think this started in the late 1980s - when I was in *6th form* there were a number of students
who already had cars.

To keep up with their friends who had already left school?

I say raise the driving age to 18 to remove the mental link between first job and first car among
the unskilled workforce.

Colin McKenzie.

"Richard Bates" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Started a 5 day course at University of Central England today. The literature combined with a 15
minute spiel goes into great detail about where the car parks are, how much they are, how long you
are allowed to park on the road and even how frequently cars have been towed away from the single
yellow line.

It gives maps of how to get there from Birmingham Airport.

It gives details of local train services and approximate frequency.

It cops out of giving bus information by providing the phone number for the hotline.

But does it tell you where the cycle parking facilities are? Does it inform you that showers are
available? No!

Love and <insert favourite object here> from Rich x

--
Two drums and a cymbal fall over a cliff. Boom boom, Tish. Email address is false. It begins thus:
richard@

Aw C'mon Rich!!...you know that's because that they know that due to the benefits of cycling,
cyclists are *obviously* intelligent enough to find out these details for themselves, whereas those
relying on someone/thing else to 'do it for them', expect and indeed cannot function without the
information being supplied for them. Rejoice in the fact that this has been recognised and is being
taken into account when planning the uni literature. Cheers, Dave. ;-)

"Mr R@t (2.3 zulu-alpha) [comms room 2]" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could that be down to the change in numbers of students? When it was predominantly the
relatively-intelligent young going to university, we

cycled.

Quoted message said:

Now it's every tom, [censored] and harry, and a herd mentality dominates.

I think this started in the late 1980s - when I was in *6th form* there

were

Quoted message said:

a number of students who already had cars.

Disposable income keeps on going up, just look at 5th november!

Another factor is cost and reliability of cars. In the mid 80's unless you had a good amount of
money you'd be buying something very ropey indeed that needed a lot of repairs. I remember
friends+brother spending many hours farting about with minis etc. just to keep them going. (also
figured out how to paint them so they didnt rust)

And right now, you can get a car that will not break down for 100 quid.

Mr R@t \(2.3 zulu-alpha\) comms room 2 said:

"Nick Kew" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could that be down to the change in numbers of students? When it was predominantly the
relatively-intelligent young going to university, we

cycled.

Quoted message said:

Now it's every tom, [censored] and harry, and a herd mentality dominates.

I think this started in the late 1980s - when I was in *6th form* there were a number of students
who already had cars.

When I was in the first form (1973 IIRC), three sixth formers had Messerschmidts. (Three wheelers,
not 109s). Kewl.

Tim
--
In space no one can eat ice cream

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:14:56 +0100 someone who may be Tim Hall <[email hidden]>
wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

When I was in the first form (1973 IIRC), three sixth formers had Messerschmidts. (Three wheelers,
not 109s). Kewl.

I think a 109 would have been an interesting way to travel to school. The field at the back of
the house would probably have been suitable, the rugby pitches at school would certainly have
been suitable.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX <[email hidden]> wrote:

: There was no-way, no-how I could have run a car on my student grant and I can't help but wonder
: how students are doing it these days. Are they all working so much outside their studies to fund
: said studies that a car is now *needed* to get them from home to work to uni??? Ican't help but
: think that if sao much outside work goes on, studies *must* be suffering as a result.

I doubt that they *need* a car to get to/from work any more than most of the rest of us do.

I think there's a few interlinked causes

1) Cars are much cheaper than they were
2) Students are in so much debt anyway, that actually it's not unreasonable to say "bugger it" [1]

And yes, lots of student's studies are suffering becuase they are doing too much paid work and not
enough academic work. Funnily enough, it's mainly the students from poor backgrounds who suffer.

Arthur

[3] Current fees are about £1,000/year. Students loans (ment for living costs) are currently
£3,950/yr outside London. It's pretty hard to see how you can get out of uni these days owing
less than £15k even living very cheaply and working in the holidays without doing lots of work
in term time.

As of next year, students will be able to apply for £1,000/yr in grants, means tested. But of course
by then we'll have top-up fees of £3,000 yr, so that'll improve things no end.

--
Arthur Clune clune.orgclune.orgOpen ↗ "Techolibertarians make a philosophy out of a personality defect"
- Paulina Borsook

Quoted message said:

Disposable income keeps on going up, just look at 5th november!

TMAI

The b****ds have started already round here.....

Richard Webb

[email hidden] (wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Back in the dim & distant recesses of the late 1970's when I embarked on my degree, very, very few
students travelled to & from uni by car. It was a *noticeable* thing when a student had a car.
Those that did tended to have wealthy parents who had provided the vehicle

This was also true in the mid-eighties when I was at University. I knew one student with a car and,
yes, she had rich parents.

Where I work we often have students on 3 month placements - most of these seem to drive. And...

Quoted message said:

How times change... At my local uni *loads* of students are running cars - car parking is a major
problem. True - there's lots using bikes too, but there's a heck of a lot using cars.

My father-in-law works at a sixth form college, and parking is now a problem there...

Quoted message said:

There was no-way, no-how I could have run a car on my student grant and I can't help but wonder
how students are doing it these days.

The real cost of car ownership and usage has fallen drastically in the last 20 years? (Something
that you never hear about from the motoring lobby for some reason....)

Toby

--
Remove spamtrap to reply by mail

[email hidden] (wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX) wrote in
:"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

Back in the dim & distant recesses of the late 1970's when I embarked on my degree, very, very few
students travelled to & from uni by car. It was a *noticeable* thing when a student had a car.
Those that did tended to have wealthy parents who had provided the vehicle

This was also true in the mid-eighties when I was at University. I knew one student with a car and,
yes, she had rich parents.

Where I work we often have students on 3 month placements - most of these seem to drive. And...

Quoted message said:

How times change... At my local uni *loads* of students are running cars - car parking is a major
problem. True - there's lots using bikes too, but there's a heck of a lot using cars.

My father-in-law works at a sixth form college, and parking is now a problem there...

Quoted message said:

There was no-way, no-how I could have run a car on my student grant and I can't help but wonder
how students are doing it these days.

The real cost of car ownership and usage has fallen drastically in the last 20 years? (Something
that you never hear about from the motoring lobby for some reason....)

Toby

--
Remove spamtrap to reply by mail

On a related issue, I do some work for the OU and regularly travel to various residential schools.
For one last year I went by train and bike. When I got there I asked if there was a mileage rate for
a bikes as it wasn't on the expenses claim form. It turned out that there was a rate of 7.5p per
mile. Since then the admin person has kindly updated the form and the bike mileage section gets as
much prominence as the car mileage section. Unfortunately I haven't used my bike for OU work since
:-(

Colin

Colin Blackburn said:

On a related issue, I do some work for the OU and regularly travel to various residential schools.
For one last year I went by train and bike. When I got there I asked if there was a mileage rate
for a bikes as it wasn't on the expenses claim form. It turned out that there was a rate of 7.5p
per mile. Since then the admin person has kindly updated the form and the bike mileage section
gets as much prominence as the car mileage section. Unfortunately I haven't used my bike for OU
work since :-(

IIRC the Inland Revenue will allow them to pay you at the rate of 25p/mi for a bike. If they won't
pay that much you can claim the difference between that rate and what you get on your tax return.
Not as good as getting the full amount but better than nothing.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain

In article <[email hidden]>, junk@raven- family.com says...

Quoted message said:

Colin Blackburn said:

On a related issue, I do some work for the OU and regularly travel to various residential
schools. For one last year I went by train and bike. When I got there I asked if there was a
mileage rate for a bikes as it wasn't on the expenses claim form. It turned out that there was a
rate of 7.5p per mile. Since then the admin person has kindly updated the form and the bike
mileage section gets as much prominence as the car mileage section. Unfortunately I haven't used
my bike for OU work since :-(

IIRC the Inland Revenue will allow them to pay you at the rate of 25p/mi for a bike. If they won't
pay that much you can claim the difference between that rate and what you get on your tax return.
Not as good as getting the full amount but better than nothing.

As I don't normally fill in a tax return, and am happy not to, I don't think I'll ask for one for
the 20 odd miles I cycled. Thanks for the tip though.

Colin

Quoted message said:

On a related issue, I do some work for the OU and regularly travel to various residential schools

Speaking of which & digressing a bit...

A friend of mine uses her bike to get to & from work. She uses her bike during the day in
connection with her work. Her employers won't give her mileage for using her bike, but will if she
uses the car...

Plus, she has now been told she cannot store her bike inside the building where she works - it was
kept in an unused and locked office - and has been told "it's a health & safety risk".

So she now has to keep her bike outside, in a less than secure situation, in a place where, if she
used a car, her employer is... short of parking space, but the bike takes up less room and frees up
what parking there is for others who don't cycle.

Any knowledgeable types out there who can point me in the direction of any information that point
out any financial advantages to employers who encourage bikes??? As well as, perhaps, possible
tactics she could use - if she was so inclined, and I have no idea if she is or isn't, with any
arguments to get her employers to provide secure cycle parking etc., etc..

I know she can't claim mileage for the journey to & from work-home, but she should at least be able
to claim it for business miles - even though her employers say they won't??? I know the tax man
allows such mileage.

Cheers, helen s

~~~~~~~~~~
This is sent from a redundant email Mail sent to it is dumped My correct one can be gleaned from
h*$el***$$n*$d$ot$**s**i$$m*$m$**on**$s$@*$$a**$*ol*$*.*$$c$om*$ by getting rid of the
overdependence on money and fame
~~~~~~~~~~

wafflyDIRTYcatLITTERhcsBOX said:

Quoted message said:

On a related issue, I do some work for the OU and regularly travel to various residential schools

Speaking of which & digressing a bit...

I think there is very little that encourages an employer that is not interested in providing cycling
facilities. OTOH there is no obligation on an employee to use their own vehicle for company travel.
So she could get bolshy and insist the company provides a car or taxi to take her on her work trips
in the case that the company is unwilling to reimburse her for use of her own transport at the
Revenue approved rate. Meanwhile she can at least claim back the tax on what the Revenue allow but
she is not paid.

She might also ask for a written confirmation of the Health and Safety issue and ask for a copy of
the assessment exercise. Often these decisions are made low down in an organisation on a whim and
not on any proper evaluation.

Tony

--
"If you tell the truth you don't have to remember anything." Mark Twain