In desicion-hell (what bike to choose. I love them all)

I rode once in a while with a very competitive guy in Idaho, about your
size, who bought a Specialized Epic. He could climb like a goat on that
bike. If you go fast, and want to climb some bumpy uphills, that's a
good bike for you.

If you just ride recreationally, you might want to go with longer
travel than the Specialized Epic. I and many other riders, including
myself have switched to 5 inches of more of full-suspension even for
cross country riding. A friend of mine, a reformed racer, has a Turner
5 Spot that he uses for XC riding. My own ride, used for XC
recreatonal riding and as a tow vehicle for my daughter's trailer bike,
is a extra-large 2003 Trek Liquid 30.

Dave Wissenbach
Minister of Misinformation

either the Scott or Merida would rock! The specialized is a dime a
dozen...

there's nothing to riding an FS, try it out, you might like it.

Quoted message said:

If you just ride recreationally, you might want to go with longer
travel than the Specialized Epic.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

Dave Wissenbach
Minister of Misinformation

You are earning your title more by the post. Telling a relative newb
to get a 5" travel bike is ridiculous. Newbs should be riding a
hardtail or rigid bike and learning some skills before moving on to
what has become medium travel FS. Relative newbs can decimate a trail
with their inexperience and lack of handling skills on a bike that is
way beyond their skill level. Maybe we should pave the trails to make
riding easier for them as well?

JD

Hi Geir

Any chance the shop would swap the SID for a Fox ? Even if you had to kick
in a bill or so, it might be worth it. To be honest, I am almost 3 inches
shorter than you and ride an 18" or so frame in most makes. Unless you have
a real short upper body or plan to use a long stem, sounds like the cockpit
might be a bit snug for you.

If the Kinesis frame is set for 85mm fork, you could plush a Fox 105mm and
try for the sweet component build. That way you can have an XC machine that
allows for a little more travel, unless you plan to race it and want to keep
the head angle steep.

Nice dilemma you got there ;-)

"Geir Eivind Mork" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm shopping for a bike when everyone doesn't have anything else to do
than try to keep the snow away from clogging the driveways alltogether.
So I got a couple of good deals.

First a bike I've mentioned earlier,

Marvil Team 1 (in-house brand)
Kinesis K6 Alu SL frame (20 inches), SID Team fork, XTR 27-gear, XTR
v-break, XTR
44-32-22 crank, XTR bottom bracket, mavic XM317 rims, michelin jet-s
tries, ABR Composite stem, handlebar and seatpost.

Link for the frame:
http://www.kinesis.com.tw/products_frame_k6-2004.htm

The second one is more well known Specialized Epic FSR 2005

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=9654

The third one is also a well known bike, Scott Scale 30

http://www.scottusa.com/product.php?UID=7469

And the forth one is probably not well know, Merida Special Edition

http://www.merida.com/db_data/pdf/2005/com/CarbonSpecialEditionVBrake.pdf
(pdf link)

The Marvil is 20", the rest is 18" - I get about US$700-$750 off this
bikes, the marvil and the merida is the cheapest ones at US$2400 - the
others, the scott and the specialized both are US$2995

I must admit my last bike consited of mainly '99 parts, and i have no
idea yet what is better and worse. Anyone can help me in any direction :P

?

Quoted message said:

And again. I'm 184cm, that's around 6 foot and half an inch. about 36
inches from the floor to my inner thighs - just in case i differ from
regular propotions :P I must admit I do like the thought of an 18" bike
better, but I fear it might be small - but on the other hand i feel the
20" might be big. I can't get to try them much beside arond the store so
i can't actually get the big feel out of them how they are to climb and
to race.

The Marvel with its xtr is just a dream when it comes to the quality of
the components - although the salesman did scare me with saying the SID
fork wasn't that well if i rounded 185-190 pounds (I'm 177 now) because
of the light build (not that i plan on getting bigger, but i do some
weight training too and have gone from 154 to 177 in two years due to
that, and might increase as well) - any thoughts on that?

The scott looked amazing but felt flimsy due to mostly LX (only rear
dell is XT), but the fox fork was neat and the carbon frame was only
around 1.77 pound. But as i said in a former thread, i fear what damage
to the carbon can do for the logitivty - but the salesman said he had
that bike himself and i know he competes at a fairly good level for a
semipro.

Haven't lookd that closely on the merida and the specialized yet - I'll
probably examine them closer tomorrow. but i have the same problem, only
small shop stores to try them out in - and that doesn't give me the
impressions i'll get when the snow is gone (it's crazy nowdays, they
speak of 1974 as the last year with this much snow at once) - but then
it might just be too late for one or all of them. So I'd like to act
fast. And heck, I have never ridden a FS bike before, like the epic.

So anyone got any response. Convince me and you become my hero :P
Because all the shop owners tells that there are nothing to wonder
about. Theirs are the best, no question about it. :P

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

You are earning your title more by the post. Telling a relative newb
to get a 5" travel bike is ridiculous.

I'm new to actually have the money to consider top end bikes. It's my
forth mountainbike, the second, a DBS Intruder STX '94 was the first I
raced on. (competed with other high school kids), the next one, a
Sintesi Xwing XT '99 I had about 4000 km (2500 miles) on before it got
stolen, and in the best part of the summer I averaged at 250 km a week
(155 miles) - in terrain, doing a 30 km / 18.5 mile singletrack between
45 -> 55 min depending on wind and weather (I lived near the coast then)
- so I know what speed is and what bumps, hills, downhills and curves is
on a bike and how it and the suspension respond to it 😉

So I know how to ride a bike, i've just not that much experience with
brands beside the ones I've used due to the fact I've always rode alone
thus made me never tried any friends bike (my friends drive motorcycles,
if any bike at all). So that's the reason I'm askin. I loved my Sintesi
to death, it was all the light fast fun bike i've ever wanted. Bashed
her up enough to fear what i might do to a carbon bike if the frame
doesn't withstand it. heck, about all my scars on my body is due to
mountainbike related accidents.

So I've got years on rigid bikes, on suspeded hardtails (bought my first
fork after hitting a small ditch in high speed. The rigid fork did look
a bit like my face at that time 😉 - but none on a full suspended bike.
I had wet dreams about the trek y-bikes when they came and even wetter
dreams about the pacific blue -girls when that serie started to use the
red y-bikes. :P

So, I'm buying a bike tomorrow and I'd love some sensible imputs
espesially on the equipment level (carbon frame/low eq vs suspended
frame/low eq vs regular hardtail/good eq) but I still a bit unsure about
the size due to the fact the bikes I've never ridden a 20" bike before
due to noone i know have one.

When it comes to suspension, my last bike had a Marzocchi Z2 Superfly,
which in 1999 was the first to have open bath damper - and air spring. I
know what happened in 1999 - what was good and what wasn't. but in 2006
I must admit I'm not so sure about. I wasn't planning on buying a new
bike, neither on upgrading from my fully functional '99 XT beside the
usual replacing of worn parts. but when someone steals my bike, i have
to get a new one and then I want the right one.

so, any last minute help? or I'll take a look at the Specialized Epic,
and if it feels good I'll go for it, or else I'll have to toss a dice
for the rest and probably end up going for the Marvel (in house brand,
as said) just because it's what i feel is the best deal, but still not
sure about 20". but it's the only rebated size they have. so, see my
problem?

"Geir Eivind Mork" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

You are earning your title more by the post. Telling a relative newb
to get a 5" travel bike is ridiculous.

I'm new to actually have the money to consider top end bikes. It's my
forth mountainbike, the second, a DBS Intruder STX '94 was the first I
raced on. (competed with other high school kids), the next one, a Sintesi
Xwing XT '99 I had about 4000 km (2500 miles) on before it got stolen, and
in the best part of the summer I averaged at 250 km a week (155 miles) -
in terrain, doing a 30 km / 18.5 mile singletrack between 45 -> 55 min
depending on wind and weather (I lived near the coast then) - so I know
what speed is and what bumps, hills, downhills and curves is on a bike and
how it and the suspension respond to it 😉

So I know how to ride a bike, i've just not that much experience with
brands beside the ones I've used due to the fact I've always rode alone
thus made me never tried any friends bike (my friends drive motorcycles,
if any bike at all). So that's the reason I'm askin. I loved my Sintesi to
death, it was all the light fast fun bike i've ever wanted. Bashed her up
enough to fear what i might do to a carbon bike if the frame doesn't
withstand it. heck, about all my scars on my body is due to mountainbike
related accidents.

So I've got years on rigid bikes, on suspeded hardtails (bought my first
fork after hitting a small ditch in high speed. The rigid fork did look a
bit like my face at that time 😉 - but none on a full suspended bike. I
had wet dreams about the trek y-bikes when they came and even wetter
dreams about the pacific blue -girls when that serie started to use the
red y-bikes. :P

So, I'm buying a bike tomorrow and I'd love some sensible imputs
espesially on the equipment level (carbon frame/low eq vs suspended
frame/low eq vs regular hardtail/good eq) but I still a bit unsure about
the size due to the fact the bikes I've never ridden a 20" bike before due
to noone i know have one.

When it comes to suspension, my last bike had a Marzocchi Z2 Superfly,
which in 1999 was the first to have open bath damper - and air spring. I
know what happened in 1999 - what was good and what wasn't. but in 2006 I
must admit I'm not so sure about. I wasn't planning on buying a new bike,
neither on upgrading from my fully functional '99 XT beside the usual
replacing of worn parts. but when someone steals my bike, i have to get a
new one and then I want the right one.

so, any last minute help? or I'll take a look at the Specialized Epic, and
if it feels good I'll go for it, or else I'll have to toss a dice for the
rest and probably end up going for the Marvel (in house brand, as said)
just because it's what i feel is the best deal, but still not sure about
20". but it's the only rebated size they have. so, see my problem?

I would take a long hard look at Turners. http://www.turnerbikes.com/ I have
owned a 5-Spot since they came out 2003 and it is a great all round trail
bike.

But I have to admit I like riding my rigid 29 inch wheeled Single Speed
better.

Dean A. Stepper said:

"Geir Eivind Mork" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

You are earning your title more by the post. Telling a relative newb
to get a 5" travel bike is ridiculous.

I'm new to actually have the money to consider top end bikes. It's my
forth mountainbike, the second, a DBS Intruder STX '94 was the first I
raced on. (competed with other high school kids), the next one, a Sintesi
Xwing XT '99 I had about 4000 km (2500 miles) on before it got stolen, and
in the best part of the summer I averaged at 250 km a week (155 miles) -
in terrain, doing a 30 km / 18.5 mile singletrack between 45 -> 55 min
depending on wind and weather (I lived near the coast then) - so I know
what speed is and what bumps, hills, downhills and curves is on a bike and
how it and the suspension respond to it 😉

So I know how to ride a bike, i've just not that much experience with
brands beside the ones I've used due to the fact I've always rode alone
thus made me never tried any friends bike (my friends drive motorcycles,
if any bike at all). So that's the reason I'm askin. I loved my Sintesi to
death, it was all the light fast fun bike i've ever wanted. Bashed her up
enough to fear what i might do to a carbon bike if the frame doesn't
withstand it. heck, about all my scars on my body is due to mountainbike
related accidents.

So I've got years on rigid bikes, on suspeded hardtails (bought my first
fork after hitting a small ditch in high speed. The rigid fork did look a
bit like my face at that time 😉 - but none on a full suspended bike. I
had wet dreams about the trek y-bikes when they came and even wetter
dreams about the pacific blue -girls when that serie started to use the
red y-bikes. :P

So, I'm buying a bike tomorrow and I'd love some sensible imputs
espesially on the equipment level (carbon frame/low eq vs suspended
frame/low eq vs regular hardtail/good eq) but I still a bit unsure about
the size due to the fact the bikes I've never ridden a 20" bike before due
to noone i know have one.

When it comes to suspension, my last bike had a Marzocchi Z2 Superfly,
which in 1999 was the first to have open bath damper - and air spring. I
know what happened in 1999 - what was good and what wasn't. but in 2006 I
must admit I'm not so sure about. I wasn't planning on buying a new bike,
neither on upgrading from my fully functional '99 XT beside the usual
replacing of worn parts. but when someone steals my bike, i have to get a
new one and then I want the right one.

so, any last minute help? or I'll take a look at the Specialized Epic, and
if it feels good I'll go for it, or else I'll have to toss a dice for the
rest and probably end up going for the Marvel (in house brand, as said)
just because it's what i feel is the best deal, but still not sure about
20". but it's the only rebated size they have. so, see my problem?

I would take a long hard look at Turners. http://www.turnerbikes.com/ I have
owned a 5-Spot since they came out 2003 and it is a great all round trail
bike.

But I have to admit I like riding my rigid 29 inch wheeled Single Speed
better.

The upcharge for a Turner to Norway is going to put that frame alone at
US$4500 - US$5000.

The safe choice (of his selection) is the Specialized, although I think
the Scott bikes are pretty sexy. If it was a carbon wrap over aluminum,
then maybe if I were racing I would consider it. If it's all carbon,
I'd pass.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

None of those bikes look raceable. Honestly, except for the Epic, they
all look like junk. Avoid carbon fiber like the plague.

IMHO, Dekerf(have 2) or S-works(have 2) are the best handling, raceable
hardtails around. There's a reason why so many people ride Epics.
They rail. You don't want a normal Epic though, get an S-works if you
go this route. Dekerfs are expensive, and take a while to be built,
but worth every penny. www.dekerf.com

Drop your wad on a cherry frame and then buy a groupo/fork/wheels mail
order.
You'll get a much nicer bike for the same amount of money you'll spend
on one of those other bikes. It will last A LOT longer also.

At your wieght; you probably want some Mavic Crosslands or handbuilt
XTR wheels, get a Fox fork if you can afford one, the SID might be too
flimsy for you. I have a set of XTR hubs that are going on 10 years
now. Have been rebuilt maybe 3 or 4 times with new rims.

Don't listen to the guy at your LBS, he's a moron, just trying to sell
you some old stock he can't get rid of because no one else is stupid
enough to buy it. LBS's are notorious for this. They buy some odd
ball bike and then can't sell it. LX is junk. You need XT minimum to
race, and you'll be lucky if XT even lasts half a season.

Don't buy some "shop" brand frame either. When your frame snaps 2
years down the road, chances are they'll be out of business, and your
warranty will be worthless. The great thing about a steel frame i.e.
Dekerf, is that they can be repaired.

Mork said:

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

You are earning your title more by the post. Telling a relative newb
to get a 5" travel bike is ridiculous.

I'm new to actually have the money to consider top end bikes.

None of the bikes you listed are top end, nor even close to top end.
This only shows how relative your newbness is to those who really know
what a top end bike is.

JD nanu nanu

CowPunk said:

Drop your wad on a cherry frame and then buy a groupo/fork/wheels mail
order.
You'll get a much nicer bike for the same amount of money you'll spend
on one of those other bikes. It will last A LOT longer also.

Wow, someone who actually understands that you can't get a really good
bike without getting a really good frame, first and foremost. I love
seeing goobers who dress up crappy frames with XTR and then like to
think their bike is "custom".

JD

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

None of the bikes you listed are top end, nor even close to top end.
This only shows how relative your newbness is to those who really know
what a top end bike is.

It's what I consider to be good, I'm just some guy loving to be out
blasting down the tracks. I know the bikes are no even in the class
that's used in world class races. But if I had the money to opt for a
competition class bike I wouldn't have talked about rebated last years
models, would I?

Never heard more talk about 'newbees' since i browsed in on some 14 year
olds talking about computer games.

GWood skrev:

I liked the Fox better than the SID, so that I'll try.

Thanks for the inputs. Must be the most constructive reply I've got so
far. Seem like everyone want to triple my budget - I'd love to do that
but I wouldn't be here asking for what compromise to take if I were. So
I appriciated your views on the size and on the fork. I'd love a epic
s-works, but it's US$10,500 here. If I had that, I would be including it
in my questions.

And now I'll end my dillema, hopefully trying to forget what i could
have afforded if the lottery numbers where different - and focusing on
the best deal for the money.

Thanks, gwood

Quoted message said:

Hi Geir

Any chance the shop would swap the SID for a Fox ? Even if you had to kick
in a bill or so, it might be worth it. To be honest, I am almost 3 inches
shorter than you and ride an 18" or so frame in most makes. Unless you have
a real short upper body or plan to use a long stem, sounds like the cockpit
might be a bit snug for you.

If the Kinesis frame is set for 85mm fork, you could plush a Fox 105mm and
try for the sweet component build. That way you can have an XC machine that
allows for a little more travel, unless you plan to race it and want to keep
the head angle steep.

Nice dilemma you got there ;-)

"Geir Eivind Mork" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I'm shopping for a bike when everyone doesn't have anything else to do
than try to keep the snow away from clogging the driveways alltogether.
So I got a couple of good deals.

First a bike I've mentioned earlier,

Marvil Team 1 (in-house brand)
Kinesis K6 Alu SL frame (20 inches), SID Team fork, XTR 27-gear, XTR
v-break, XTR
44-32-22 crank, XTR bottom bracket, mavic XM317 rims, michelin jet-s
tries, ABR Composite stem, handlebar and seatpost.

Link for the frame:
http://www.kinesis.com.tw/products_frame_k6-2004.htm

The second one is more well known Specialized Epic FSR 2005

http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=9654

The third one is also a well known bike, Scott Scale 30

http://www.scottusa.com/product.php?UID=7469

And the forth one is probably not well know, Merida Special Edition

http://www.merida.com/db_data/pdf/2005/com/CarbonSpecialEditionVBrake.pdf
(pdf link)

The Marvil is 20", the rest is 18" - I get about US$700-$750 off this
bikes, the marvil and the merida is the cheapest ones at US$2400 - the
others, the scott and the specialized both are US$2995

I must admit my last bike consited of mainly '99 parts, and i have no
idea yet what is better and worse. Anyone can help me in any direction :P

?

Quoted message said:

And again. I'm 184cm, that's around 6 foot and half an inch. about 36
inches from the floor to my inner thighs - just in case i differ from
regular propotions :P I must admit I do like the thought of an 18" bike
better, but I fear it might be small - but on the other hand i feel the
20" might be big. I can't get to try them much beside arond the store so
i can't actually get the big feel out of them how they are to climb and
to race.

The Marvel with its xtr is just a dream when it comes to the quality of
the components - although the salesman did scare me with saying the SID
fork wasn't that well if i rounded 185-190 pounds (I'm 177 now) because
of the light build (not that i plan on getting bigger, but i do some
weight training too and have gone from 154 to 177 in two years due to
that, and might increase as well) - any thoughts on that?

The scott looked amazing but felt flimsy due to mostly LX (only rear
dell is XT), but the fox fork was neat and the carbon frame was only
around 1.77 pound. But as i said in a former thread, i fear what damage
to the carbon can do for the logitivty - but the salesman said he had
that bike himself and i know he competes at a fairly good level for a
semipro.

Haven't lookd that closely on the merida and the specialized yet - I'll
probably examine them closer tomorrow. but i have the same problem, only
small shop stores to try them out in - and that doesn't give me the
impressions i'll get when the snow is gone (it's crazy nowdays, they
speak of 1974 as the last year with this much snow at once) - but then
it might just be too late for one or all of them. So I'd like to act
fast. And heck, I have never ridden a FS bike before, like the epic.

So anyone got any response. Convince me and you become my hero :P
Because all the shop owners tells that there are nothing to wonder
about. Theirs are the best, no question about it. :P

Tess Tickles skrev:

Quoted message said:

either the Scott or Merida would rock! The specialized is a dime a
dozen...

there's nothing to riding an FS, try it out, you might like it.

I went to check out the Specialized Epic FSR, and they also had a Comp
Disc - the nice salesman even said I could take his Epic Pro out for a
round at the track when the snow went away. Didn't make the decisions
easier, but I'd at least get to have a try on FS before I choose wether
to stick to hardtail or soften up.

But for my money I get better hardtail than fs. but I'll upgrade anyways
when the funds allows it.

Oh well, the stores closed and I didn't reach a decision. oh well 🙂

Mork said:

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

None of the bikes you listed are top end, nor even close to top end.
This only shows how relative your newbness is to those who really know
what a top end bike is.

It's what I consider to be good, I'm just some guy loving to be out
blasting down the tracks. I know the bikes are no even in the class
that's used in world class races. But if I had the money to opt for a
competition class bike I wouldn't have talked about rebated last years
models, would I?

Do you know what a sieve is? I'm just some guy loving to be out
blasting down the tracks and ride top end bikes. Racing has absolutely
nothing to do with mountain biking in my world, but I ride "top end"
bikes just the same. Bikes used in "world class races" (XC) have
nothing to do with an enthusiast's "top end" bikes because they are not
fabricated to be durable. They are made to be light and if they last a
whole race season, it's a miracle. You stated "top end" bike and
talked about rebated last years model cookie cutters. Those are two
different worlds and your ignorance can only make one who is not
ignorant to these matters think you are anything other than a newb. I
was a newb to mountain biking twenty years ago and when I bought a
cookie cutter that didn't fit as well as a mountain bike should, knew
the difference between a Ritchey and Schwinn's offerings.

Quoted message said:

Never heard more talk about 'newbees' since i browsed in on some 14 year
olds talking about computer games.

That's funny, especially since my siblings and I had Atari "Pong" in
the mid 70's. Did they have that on Ork too?

JD

JD skrev:

Quoted message said:

You stated "top end" bike and
talked about rebated last years model cookie cutters. Those are two
different worlds and your ignorance can only make one who is not
ignorant to these matters think you are anything other than a newb. I

English is not my native language, so there are ways that I phrase my
sentences that might be a bit 'too directly translated' thus distorting
my real point. So I have no idea what cookie cutter is, probably some
word for 'cheap ass bike'. Oh well, this is Norway - not USA. Quick
search on the web - The Stumpjumper costs US$1,130 on the first page i
got, same bike retails for US$2,406 here. And think of the difference on
the more expensive bikes. So what's cookie cutter for you, is expensive
for me. And be glad we talk about bikes, if I wanted a mustang I would
have to put around US$180,000 on the table. Just because my country tax
on engine volume, horsepower plus weight and put 25% sales tax on that.

Quoted message said:

That's funny, especially since my siblings and I had Atari "Pong" in
the mid 70's. Did they have that on Ork too?

I was born in '77, i think the entire world felt like pong at the time
for me.

JD said:

CowPunk said:

Drop your wad on a cherry frame and then buy a groupo/fork/wheels mail
order.
You'll get a much nicer bike for the same amount of money you'll spend
on one of those other bikes. It will last A LOT longer also.

Wow, someone who actually understands that you can't get a really good
bike without getting a really good frame, first and foremost. I love
seeing goobers who dress up crappy frames with XTR and then like to
think their bike is "custom".

JD

Not as funny as some GOOB walking his "custom" SS up a 16% singletrack.

"CowPunk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JD said:

CowPunk said:

Drop your wad on a cherry frame and then buy a groupo/fork/wheels mail
order.
You'll get a much nicer bike for the same amount of money you'll spend
on one of those other bikes. It will last A LOT longer also.

Wow, someone who actually understands that you can't get a really good
bike without getting a really good frame, first and foremost. I love
seeing goobers who dress up crappy frames with XTR and then like to
think their bike is "custom".

JD

Not as funny as some GOOB walking his "custom" SS up a 16% singletrack.

He'll NEVER come back from THAT blast................

Geir Eivind Mork said:

Thanks for the inputs. Must be the most constructive reply I've got so
far. Seem like everyone want to triple my budget - I'd love to do that
but I wouldn't be here asking for what compromise to take if I were. So
I appriciated your views on the size and on the fork. I'd love a epic
s-works, but it's US$10,500 here. If I had that, I would be including it
in my questions.

I'll second the recommendation for a Fox fork over a SID if you choose
the Kinesis. The SID will probably be a little flexy given your
weight. The Fox is strong and has super smooth action.

Having never ridden any of the bikes on your list, I cannot offer any
first hand observations, but I will say that I am not a fan of carbon
frames. I own one but tend to baby it on the trails in fear that I'll
inflict a fatal blow. I have to admit, however, that the carbon seat
and chain stays on my bike (which seem to take get more abuse then the
frame itself) are still going strong after 4 years. Still, I prefer
standard aluminum off-road.

Now that I am getting up there in years, I could never go back to a
hard tail for off-road riding. Full suspension lets me ride longer
and harder without getting as tired or beat up. 3" to 4" of travel is
sufficient for my (light) weight on xc trails.

I have looked at the Epic. I think it's a good bike but I prefer a
more active rear suspension over the Epic (and I do wonder how the
rear shock (along the seat stay) holds up to abuse). The Stumpjumper
is another good option from specialized.

Marty said:

"CowPunk" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

JD said:

CowPunk wrote:
> Drop your wad on a cherry frame and then buy a groupo/fork/wheels mail
> order.
> You'll get a much nicer bike for the same amount of money you'll spend
> on one of those other bikes. It will last A LOT longer also.

Wow, someone who actually understands that you can't get a really good
bike without getting a really good frame, first and foremost. I love
seeing goobers who dress up crappy frames with XTR and then like to
think their bike is "custom".

JD

Not as funny as some GOOB walking his "custom" SS up a 16% singletrack.

I'm not sure what 16% translates to because I got a "D" in Math. Sure
a SS gets walked on occasion, but then again, some grades get walked on
geared bikes. I'd love to see someone climb FOI on any bike.

Quoted message said:

He'll NEVER come back from THAT blast................

A popcorn fart is not a blast. It's just a bunch of hot air with no
punch.

JD