Seat Tilt & Hand Pain

Per [email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

What I'd do:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1) Change seatposts (maybe). If you don't have a micro-adjustable
(i.e. continuous tilt adjustment) seatpost, get one. Amazingly-small
changes can have significant effects.

2) Measure my butt. There's a chance - albeit small - that your saddle's
usable width is less than the space between your sit bones and somehow
the forward tilt is compensating for that. Measuring's cheap: just
sit on something that takes an impression - like thick cardboard,
styrofoam sheet, or even some regular printer paper on the right
density rug.

3) Try a sprung saddle, sus post, or FS bike. I wouldn't even *think* of
riding my hard tail with a rigid post/saddle. It gets worse with age.

4) If you're riding MTB, go for higher-volume tires at lower pressure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
PeteCresswell

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:44:34 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

I found that I could correct this by moving the bars up and back to
put my riding position more erect unless I flex my elbows. With the
elbows flexed, the hands and wrists suddenly stopped getting tingly
and numb. With the more erect position, the load on the hands was
reduced anyway, for the same net effect. YMMV; everybody has to find
the solution that works for them.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

On Wed, 8 Mar 2006 22:44:34 +0000 (UTC), [email hidden]

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

TIA,
Bill

Another option would be to try a different saddle. Maybe one with a
cutout.

Life is Good!
Jeff

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

My friend who really knows his stuff says the way I have my seat would
make him miserable, but it suits me fine. I think we're all built
differently and also ride differently so need our personal ways.

I'd just add that you need to remember that you can adjust the bars /
stem too to different angles or entirely different ones. If the seat
suits, then that's settled so try addressing the hand issue with gloves,
a new stem, different bars, etc.

-paul

Bill who? said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my
seat tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it
level and I come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my
prostate examined--by King Kong.

I think you should check your saddle height. A forward tilted saddle
generally means it is too high. That can be verified in most cases by
watching a rider from behind to see if the hips swivel while pedaling.
For nearly all riders, hips should not swivel from side to side if the
saddle is not too high. The lower end is harder to describe other
than to raise the saddle until it causes hip swivel and than back off.
Of course comfort while seated probably comes first.

Quoted message said:

But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit
I managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the
seat angle may be contributing to it.

It means that either your hands are not well broken in or that you
are leaning too far forward and overloading your hands, but that ought
to show up as arm fatigue.

Quoted message said:

Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting
their seat?

You mean these two discomforts. I get confused when people say "these
kinds of things", it being unclear which aggregate (these things) or
(these kinds) is being referenced.

In any event, the saddle tilt matter is relatively easy, the hands
less so because the best fit kit is a coach who can watch you ride
around him in a large circle.

Jobst Brandt

In addition to the other good advice in this thread, you may also check
your fore/aft saddle position. If it's too far back, you may be sliding
out to the tip to compensate. A decent first pass is dropping a plumb
line from just below your kneecap with the cranks horizontal, your
forward foot should put the pedal axle directly beneath the plumb line.

Quoted message said:

From there, you can adjust until your hip angle feels decent. If I were

you, I would try a short around the block ride with the saddle maybe
2cm forward, but level, and as Jobst suggested, probably lowered a cm
or 2 also.

-Mike

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.

If you are getting that with the seat level, and the height is ok, I'd
expect that the seat doesn't fit you. Maybe one of those seats with the
cutout would work for you (never tried one myself), or one that is
narrower or wider, softer or harder, or shaped differently... it's
difficult to tell. I just put a new seat on my bike that is narrow and
about as soft as a typical board... and I can't believe how good it
feels.

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

TIA,
Bill

__o | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | -- Mark Twain

I just went thri this on my fixie and found that my saddle was too far
forward and putting more pressure on my hands-making them go to sleep.
Think of standing and leaning forward against a table, then moving you
feet back and then leaning on the table, same thing but in all cases,
the saddle was parallel to the ground, level.

I found that moving the saddle back a fraction stopped some numbness I was
getting in my hands.
I'm guessing it is because pedaling now tends to push my body slightly more
up and back rather than forward?

In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

I don't know if this helps, but I don't have any problems and I ride with
my saddle tipped up a wee bit.
---------------
Alex

Quoted message said:

I have what some would probably call the bad habit of keeping my seat
tilted somewhat forward. (Riding a hardtail MTB.) Keep it level and I
come home from long rides feeling as if I'd had my prostate examined--by
King Kong.
But lately I'm also experiencing some hand pain, and the little bit I
managed to Google up in rec.bicycles.* seems to indicate that the seat
angle may be contributing to it.
Recognizing that everybody's different, is there still some general
rule regarding how level a seat should be? And does anybody have
experience in alleviating these two kinds of discomfort by adjusting their
seat?

TIA,
Bill

__o | Get a bicycle. You will not regret it, if you live.
_`\(,_ |
(_)/ (_) | -- Mark Twain

I had problems with wrist pain and found that if I angled the nose of my
saddle up, just a bit, I didn't "slide down" the saddle as much and the
wrist discomfort is almost non existant. I figure that the saddle is
supporting my weight a little more, and I am not pushing myself back up
the saddle as much. Just my opinion however.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/

Ken C. M. said:

I had problems with wrist pain and found that if I angled the nose of my
saddle up, just a bit, I didn't "slide down" the saddle as much and the
wrist discomfort is almost non existant. I figure that the saddle is
supporting my weight a little more, and I am not pushing myself back up
the saddle as much. Just my opinion however.

I've noticed this as well... and it is also important to have the
saddle positioned rearward enough for good balance... ie no tendancy to
slide forward or back. I've been gradually moving my saddle back and
pointing the nose up just a bit, and my body feels better balanced and
more comfortable on long rides.

Ron Ruff said:

Ken C. M. said:

I had problems with wrist pain and found that if I angled the nose of my
saddle up, just a bit, I didn't "slide down" the saddle as much and the
wrist discomfort is almost non existant. I figure that the saddle is
supporting my weight a little more, and I am not pushing myself back up
the saddle as much. Just my opinion however.

I've noticed this as well... and it is also important to have the
saddle positioned rearward enough for good balance... ie no tendancy to
slide forward or back. I've been gradually moving my saddle back and
pointing the nose up just a bit, and my body feels better balanced and
more comfortable on long rides.

I absolutely agree with this line, the idea of having the saddle tilting
upwards reduce pressure on hands. If there is a problem with crotch pain
with a saddle in this attitude, or even a level saddle, then tilting the
saddle nose down may just mask the fact that the saddle itself is not a
good fit for the bones on which you sit - change the saddle instead. /Robert

Robert said:

Ron Ruff said:

Ken C. M. said:

I had problems with wrist pain and found that if I angled the nose of my
saddle up, just a bit, I didn't "slide down" the saddle as much and the
wrist discomfort is almost non existant. I figure that the saddle is
supporting my weight a little more, and I am not pushing myself back up
the saddle as much. Just my opinion however.

I've noticed this as well... and it is also important to have the
saddle positioned rearward enough for good balance... ie no tendancy to
slide forward or back. I've been gradually moving my saddle back and
pointing the nose up just a bit, and my body feels better balanced and
more comfortable on long rides.

I absolutely agree with this line, the idea of having the saddle tilting
upwards reduce pressure on hands. If there is a problem with crotch pain
with a saddle in this attitude, or even a level saddle, then tilting the
saddle nose down may just mask the fact that the saddle itself is not a
good fit for the bones on which you sit - change the saddle instead.
/Robert

Right. That and given the fact that most, not all but most shops don't
bother to do a good fit on a new bike purchase many riders never realize
that just a couple of small adjustments can lead to a much more
comfortable ride. I had to try several adjustments to the saddle to find
just the right position. And then you get the people that a saddle is
just a saddle. A saddle for a large person should probably be larger
than a saddle for a small rider. They are not one size fits all.

Ken
--
You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Homepage: http://www.bikesandmoreonline.com/

Per Ron Ruff:

Quoted message said:

I've been gradually moving my saddle back and
pointing the nose up just a bit, and my body feels better balanced and
more comfortable on long rides.

I did something like that for a couple of years. Basically, I let my butt bones
find where they wanted to be and then moved the saddle so that it was underneath
them.

For me, this resulted in a *lot* of setback and a really light front wheel.

When I finally bit the bullet and went for a custom bike, the setback was
drastically reduced to something within reason for almost anybody and the bike
handled/felt much better.

Seems to me like I was caught up in some fallacy by adjusting the saddle to fit
my butt... but what? First guess is top tube length/handlebar extension.
--
PeteCresswell

"Ken C. M." <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

A saddle for a large person should probably be larger
than a saddle for a small rider. They are not one size fits all.

Does anyone have any specific suggestions about this? I'm not huge, but I
do easily pass 200lbs most days, and I'm not tall. Quite willing to
entertain the possibility my ass is considerably wider than average. I'm
vaguely in the market for a new saddle, particularly a yellow one (all
yellow Cannondale with black saddle doesn't quite cut it to my mind...)
Been looking at Flite Gels, and some others.

Quoted message said:

You never have the wind with you - either it is against you or you're
having a good day. ~Daniel Behrman, The Man Who Loved Bicycles

Couldn't help thinking about this the other day after flying along the road
passing quite a few cars (there's a good few lights here and there on that
road), thinking what a good day I was having...

Per Ken C. M.:

Quoted message said:

A saddle for a large person should probably be larger
than a saddle for a small rider. They are not one size fits all.

Usable width is the magic phrase for me. Look underneath a WTB Speed-V for a
good example of what I mean. Actual width on top is about six inches. Usable
is more like 3.25 or 3.5 inches.

Measure your butt bone spacing to see how it matches up with a saddle's usable
width.

This measurement does not involve, as somebody said, "A really good friend and a
bottle of tequila...".

Just sit on something that will take an impression. Cardboard, sheet styrofoam,
or even some paper on a carpet of the right density.

Probably futile because it seems like the vast majority of people's butt bones
seem tb within a fairly narrow range of distance apart (as indicated by the
narrow range of saddle widths and total disregard for the concept of 'usable
width' or even 'width' in any of the saddle adverts I've seen in the past year
except for Brooks'.

But the price is right and it's so easy - and the consequences of a mismatch so
severe, that it seems to me like a no-brainer.
--
PeteCresswell