Re: Five Boro Bike Ride - NYC

"NYC XYZ" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

stratrider said:

Might be riding for the first time this year... Any advice from
experienced riders? Any special issues for us bent folk?

Jim Reilly

GO FOR IT!!

You've never seen anything like it, guaranteed! ~30K cyclists of all
kinds up and down the canyons of NYC as far as you can see...and more
bananas and power-bars than anyone needs! Just pray you won't need to
use the No. 2....

FREE FRONT-LINE PASSES for 'benters!!! Details at
<http://www.recumbents.com/mars/pages/ride/routes/BikeNY/bikeny.html>.

New York has always been tough on the bathroom scene, but your comment is a
really funny reminder...

Quoted message said:

done this several times. If you want a lot of info contact me at
[email hidden]

When I did it the bathrooms were lacking and there was a great deal of
walking due to congestion- this was 1999 so maybe things are better.
Definitely worth doing just to see NYC without being run over

Quoted message said:

When I did it the bathrooms were lacking and there was a great deal of
walking due to congestion- this was 1999 so maybe things are better.
Definitely worth doing just to see NYC without being run over

Ah, great point! Thanks for the reminder!

Yes, the number one complaint almost everybody has is how crowded it
is. Unless you're up at the front -- which you should be, due to the
aforementioned free front-line passes for 'benters -- you can expect
your first 60-90 minutes (yes, literally) to consist mostly of
stop-and-go, stop-and-go, stop-and-go-and-stop-and-go.

I remember doing that ride the year after 9/11...and, let me be honest:
9/11 just didn't touch me, except insofar as I'm extremely [censored] I
won't see those gorgeous views again...but the ride that year right
after passed by Ground Zero, and somehow I was finally touched...not
moved to tears or anywhere close, but it felt somehow rather more
personal than ever before...which, if I had to grope for an
explanation, I'd attribute to actually sharing that space and that
moment of silence and slowly walking our bikes past, which somehow made
it communal for me as nothing else has, certainly not from merely
seeing the billowing smoke from the distance of my rooftop....

Uh, so, what I mean to say is that it's extremely crowded and you'll
probably need at least some patience, but it's a great event and like
nothing else in the world, I truly believe, and this being your first
time...well, forget all our advice (except for obviously useful ones
like Jonathan's about the Con Ed rest area) and don't approach it with
any preconceptions...just feel the crowd of bicyclists...and feel
"normal" for a change!

Just a few comments from the organizers perspective:
2002, the ride after 9/11 was more crowded than usual due to a large jump in
the number of riders and because of a bunch of security checkpoints we had
to implement. Things have improved somewhat because the security
checkpoints operation has been fine tuned to lessen their impact and because
we have fewer non registered riders to stop at the checkpoints. Yes it
still bunches up on 6th avenue and at some bridges. We try new things every
year to improve the situation but in the end we need an additional lane in
Central Park and it would be nice if riders would pull off to the side when
stopping on uphills to allow everyone else bye.
As far as the potty situation, we have added additional units every year as
our budget allows. My hint would be to read our program carefully and see
where we have portapotties stationed along the route that aren't in rest
areas. I recall some in midtown and another bunch at 125th street. They
tend to be less noticed and have shorter lines.

Leonard Diamond said:

Just a few comments from the organizers perspective:
2002, the ride after 9/11 was more crowded than usual due to a large jump in
the number of riders and because of a bunch of security checkpoints we had
to implement. Things have improved somewhat because the security
checkpoints operation has been fine tuned to lessen their impact and because
we have fewer non registered riders to stop at the checkpoints. Yes it
still bunches up on 6th avenue and at some bridges. We try new things every
year to improve the situation but in the end we need an additional lane in
Central Park and it would be nice if riders would pull off to the side when
stopping on uphills to allow everyone else bye.
As far as the potty situation, we have added additional units every year as
our budget allows. My hint would be to read our program carefully and see
where we have portapotties stationed along the route that aren't in rest
areas. I recall some in midtown and another bunch at 125th street. They
tend to be less noticed and have shorter lines.

The difference in attitudes is that you come to serve and most everyone
else comes to be served. I can't imagine the complicated logistics of a
ride like this.

Leonard,

The ferry situation is abominable. I know....there were problems last year.
But still. Even in good years, its an hour wait, minimum. Way too long.

FWIW....

Rich

"Leonard Diamond" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:F9MQf.216$Km6.27@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Just a few comments from the organizers perspective:
2002, the ride after 9/11 was more crowded than usual due to a large jump
in the number of riders and because of a bunch of security checkpoints we
had to implement. Things have improved somewhat because the security
checkpoints operation has been fine tuned to lessen their impact and
because we have fewer non registered riders to stop at the checkpoints.
Yes it still bunches up on 6th avenue and at some bridges. We try new
things every year to improve the situation but in the end we need an
additional lane in Central Park and it would be nice if riders would pull
off to the side when stopping on uphills to allow everyone else bye.
As far as the potty situation, we have added additional units every year
as our budget allows. My hint would be to read our program carefully and
see where we have portapotties stationed along the route that aren't in
rest areas. I recall some in midtown and another bunch at 125th street.
They tend to be less noticed and have shorter lines.

RkFast said:

The ferry situation is abominable. I know....there were problems last year.
But still. Even in good years, its an hour wait, minimum. Way too long.

If you haven't had enough riding, a fun option is to skip the
ferry and ride to the Bayonne Bridge, then head to Jersey City
to catch the PATH train back to the city. (Probably doesn't
save any time, but it does save a lot of waiting around.)

(AKA the 6 boro bike tour.)

--
Steven O'Neill [email hidden]
Brooklyn, NY

Steven M. O'Neill said:

RkFast said:

The ferry situation is abominable. I know....there were problems last year.
But still. Even in good years, its an hour wait, minimum. Way too long.

If you haven't had enough riding, a fun option is to skip the
ferry and ride to the Bayonne Bridge, then head to Jersey City
to catch the PATH train back to the city. (Probably doesn't
save any time, but it does save a lot of waiting around.)

(AKA the 6 boro bike tour.)

--
Steven O'Neill [email hidden]
Brooklyn, NY

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I'll be doing that this year...might even go all
the way up to the GWB and back into NYC that way!

We agree but we use as many ferries as the city can provide. We try to
arrange for the class of ferry that can hold the most bikes but the
reconfiguration of South Ferry with stairs to the second floor and
elimination of the ramp didn't help.

We are trying to clean up the morning ferry operation so more people can
park on SI and take the ferry over in the am. We are trying some things to
see if we can get more people on each ferry. We don't like the situation
either but I doubt we will ever be able to solve the proble completely. In
good years (2003,2004) we actually had a max wait of 45 minutes with most
people waiting under 30 minutes. If its nice and warm on SI people tend to
spend more time at the festival and not to descend on the ferry en masse.

Len

"RkFast" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Leonard,

The ferry situation is abominable. I know....there were problems last
year. But still. Even in good years, its an hour wait, minimum. Way too
long.

FWIW....

Rich

"Leonard Diamond" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:F9MQf.216$Km6.27@trnddc01...

Quoted message said:

Just a few comments from the organizers perspective:
2002, the ride after 9/11 was more crowded than usual due to a large jump
in the number of riders and because of a bunch of security checkpoints we
had to implement. Things have improved somewhat because the security
checkpoints operation has been fine tuned to lessen their impact and
because we have fewer non registered riders to stop at the checkpoints.
Yes it still bunches up on 6th avenue and at some bridges. We try new
things every year to improve the situation but in the end we need an
additional lane in Central Park and it would be nice if riders would
pull off to the side when stopping on uphills to allow everyone else bye.
As far as the potty situation, we have added additional units every year
as our budget allows. My hint would be to read our program carefully and
see where we have portapotties stationed along the route that aren't in
rest areas. I recall some in midtown and another bunch at 125th street.
They tend to be less noticed and have shorter lines.

Quoted message said:

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I'll be doing that this year...might even go all
the way up to the GWB and back into NYC that way!

My experience was that after all the traffic jams (average speed for
the whole tour - 7 mph) I felt the need to go all the way up to the
GWB just to get in some real riding at a decent pace.

To those from the tour reading the posts here: If you know that parts
of the route will only be two car lanes wide, why do you start off the
riders with many, many more lanes when they take off? That only
guarantees the bottlenecks. If you would begin with only two lanes on
Church street, the entire ride would be far less of a pain.

One more thing, too. Is the route still stuck using the lower roadway
of the Verrazano? In the past I wondered why the Marathon got to use
the upper one, while cyclists had to use what seemed like a subway
tunnel with a view.

You got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.

- Yogi Berra

Snortley said:

Quoted message said:

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY! I'll be doing that this year...might even go all
the way up to the GWB and back into NYC that way!

My experience was that after all the traffic jams (average speed for
the whole tour - 7 mph) I felt the need to go all the way up to the
GWB just to get in some real riding at a decent pace.

To those from the tour reading the posts here: If you know that parts
of the route will only be two car lanes wide, why do you start off the
riders with many, many more lanes when they take off? That only
guarantees the bottlenecks. If you would begin with only two lanes on
Church street, the entire ride would be far less of a pain.

One more thing, too. Is the route still stuck using the lower roadway
of the Verrazano? In the past I wondered why the Marathon got to use
the upper one, while cyclists had to use what seemed like a subway
tunnel with a view.

That holds a special feeling for me. I got my father a bike when he was
in his 60s, and he started riding every day. It kept him alive. When he
went through bypass surgery there's no way he would have lived if hadn't
been riding a bike.

In his late 70s, one of his biggest joys was riding the 5 boro ride.
Usually, riding in the city is insane. He loved it. He's been riding
into his 80s. It's kept him alive and given him a lot of joy.

Isn't that more important than speed?

Quoted message said:

In his late 70s, one of his biggest joys was riding the 5 boro ride.
Usually, riding in the city is insane. He loved it. He's been riding
into his 80s. It's kept him alive and given him a lot of joy.

Isn't that more important than speed?

Being 52 myself, my speed days are nearly over, though I once
delighted in blowing away alloy riders on my all-steel ride, in the
days when steel bikes all weighed a ton. I'm not trying to blaze
through the 5 Borough. In most group rides, it's necessary to slow
down a bit; a tour is not a race. What gets me is that some of the
nuisances on this ride seem to be totally unnecessary. Riders leave
the start at a rate that inevitably leads to jam-ups. No one likes
this, and it seems as if it could be avoided by more careful planning,
for example, by using only two lanes on Church street. That would call
for a longer sequence of starts, which would also take more overall,
something perhaps the City would be unwilling to grant. If that's the
case, a smooth stream could only be achieved by reducing the number of
entries. That may seem drastic, but as it is, part of what's wrong is
that the organizers repeatedly try to squeeze too many bikes into too
little space in too little time.

How is it that the Marathon organizers can manage a free flow,
but 5 Borough can't? Can you imagine long-distance runners waiting
around for a half-hour at a time to cross a bridge or get into a park?
If that were to happen, there would be no marathon at all. Why does it
have to be any different with bikes?

You got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there.

- Yogi Berra

In Snortley said:

To those from the tour reading the posts here: If you know that parts
of the route will only be two car lanes wide, why do you start off the
riders with many, many more lanes when they take off? That only
guarantees the bottlenecks. If you would begin with only two lanes on
Church street, the entire ride would be far less of a pain.

Short answer, there's no other place to put 'em. If we have anywhere
between 25,000 and 30,000 riders (and we do) there's no other place to
put the formation. As it is, the formation lines up from Franklin St
all the way south to Battery Park, with people streaming in from both
the east and west sides of Church st, heading south along Broadway and
Varick (and the greenway). Sure there are some sections ahead that are
narrow but by the time riders get there theyre moving at some kind of
speed. When the crowd is packed together, they have to be in a wider
container. When moving forward, they can stream through a somewhat
narrower channel.

Quoted message said:

One more thing, too. Is the route still stuck using the lower roadway
of the Verrazano? In the past I wondered why the Marathon got to use
the upper one, while cyclists had to use what seemed like a subway
tunnel with a view.

We get the parts of the bridge that the MTA gives us, and it's set up
to 1) allow the cyclists to enter Fort Wadsworth with minimal impact
on Staten Island 2) allow traffic to flow across the bridge with the
least disruptions on the expressway and other sections of the bridge.
We still get a view. It is probably more wind on the upper level.
--

Danny Lieberman
[email hidden]