research on bike theft?

<[email hidden]> wrote: (clip) It was locked in my car, the car was in
a locked garage in an apartment complex in San Fran. (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That really sucks. And it is perfectly understandable that you would feel
secure, leaving the bike in a LOCKED car inside a LOCKED garage. Is there
any hope of collecting insurance? There are at least three levels I would
check on. You could have coverage on a policy on your belongings. You
could have coverage under your automotive policy. In an apartment complex,
your landlord may have coverage for this.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My $2,500 bike got stolen yesterday. It was locked in my car, the car
was in a locked garage in an apartment complex in San Fran. Most likely
the thief sneaked in when a car drove into the garage. Thanks at least
for not having the car window smashed: the thief knew how to deal with
cars as well (when my laptop got stolen, $300 for a smashed window was
a nice bonus to the $2,000 laptop tag) .

Yes, I admit I was stupid. And I feel totally helpless knowing that
there's nothing I can do to recover the bike. A google search says that
only 2% of bikes get recovered, that it's, essentially, the only type
of crime that is on the rise, and that the police don't have any
methods against it. What frustrates me most is that no research has
been done on bike theft whatsover: noone knows who the thiefs are and
noone knows who the dealers are. I haven't even heard of sting
operations: the police just don't give a damn.

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

My heartfelt sympathies go out for you. The problem is if someone really
wants something of yours there is very little you can do to stop them.
About the best you can do is if you can slow them down enough or make it
difficult enough it may not be worth it to steal the thing they want real
bad.
I like the some kind of a "lowjack" GPS device idea for a study of what
happens to bikes when they are stolen.
Of course if gas prices go over $3.00 a gallon again, we may very well see
or hear about a lot of "bike-jackings" going on where bike riders get mugged
for their bikes while they are riding them.

Earl Bollinger said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

My $2,500 bike got stolen yesterday. It was locked in my car, the car
was in a locked garage in an apartment complex in San Fran. Most likely
the thief sneaked in when a car drove into the garage. Thanks at least
for not having the car window smashed: the thief knew how to deal with
cars as well (when my laptop got stolen, $300 for a smashed window was
a nice bonus to the $2,000 laptop tag) .

Yes, I admit I was stupid. And I feel totally helpless knowing that
there's nothing I can do to recover the bike. A google search says that
only 2% of bikes get recovered, that it's, essentially, the only type
of crime that is on the rise, and that the police don't have any
methods against it. What frustrates me most is that no research has
been done on bike theft whatsover: noone knows who the thiefs are and
noone knows who the dealers are. I haven't even heard of sting
operations: the police just don't give a damn.

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

My heartfelt sympathies go out for you. The problem is if someone really
wants something of yours there is very little you can do to stop them.
About the best you can do is if you can slow them down enough or make it
difficult enough it may not be worth it to steal the thing they want real
bad.
I like the some kind of a "lowjack" GPS device idea for a study of what
happens to bikes when they are stolen.
Of course if gas prices go over $3.00 a gallon again, we may very well see
or hear about a lot of "bike-jackings" going on where bike riders get mugged
for their bikes while they are riding them.

Maybe a motion detector in the garage that would set off an alarm in the
house for you? BTW, how did he get out of a locked garage? Side door?
Bill

Quoted message said:

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

I like the idea, though I suspect it's likely that they'd end up
scattered around the city in the hands of random crack-heads.

Maybe a better idea would be to fill the down tube with C4 and put a
five-minute delay detonator on the bike that's activated when it's
transported. You won't recover any bikes, but you might just reduce
the theft rate... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Hiya Mark:
Tempting, tempting, but when I last checked mantraps were illegal in
my state (CA). Apparently that rule dates back to when folks wired a
shotgun to the doorknob because motion detectors in burglar alarms
didn't exist, and burglar alarms themselves too expensive.
As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Robert Leone [email hidden]

Mark Hickey wrote:
SNIP

Quoted message said:

Maybe a better idea would be to fill the down tube with C4 and put a
five-minute delay detonator on the bike that's activated when it's
transported. You won't recover any bikes, but you might just reduce
the theft rate... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

Hiya Mark:
Tempting, tempting, but when I last checked mantraps were illegal in
my state (CA). Apparently that rule dates back to when folks wired a
shotgun to the doorknob because motion detectors in burglar alarms
didn't exist, and burglar alarms themselves too expensive.
As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Robert Leone [email hidden]

In San Diego, the UCSD campus police provide CA. bike registration.

Earl Bollinger said:

Of course if gas prices go over $3.00 a gallon again, we may very well see
or hear about a lot of "bike-jackings" going on where bike riders get mugged
for their bikes while they are riding them.

Let's not give the email trolls of the world any fresh ideas, or the
next forward-this-to-everyone-forty-six-times scaremail might be
headed "Don't ride a bike to work, you'll get bikejacked!", without a
single actual incident having been recorded.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Dirk Bonebrake said:

Quoted message said:

Hiya Mark:
Tempting, tempting, but when I last checked mantraps were illegal in
my state (CA). Apparently that rule dates back to when folks wired a
shotgun to the doorknob because motion detectors in burglar alarms
didn't exist, and burglar alarms themselves too expensive.
As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Robert Leone [email hidden]

In San Diego, the UCSD campus police provide CA. bike registration.

In Houston, TX, the fire department provides bike registrations, but
if the bike is recovered by any entity other than HPD, the database
will not be searched for a possible owner match.

Unfortunately, there are problems with bike registrations. First,
some bike manufacturers have used non-unique "serial" numbers on their
production, and others have used sequences that were not unique to
them. Second, as has often been pointed out, bikes are regarded by
lawmakers as more of an inconsequential item than a serious piece of
property; there is no interest at all in establishing a useful
recovery-oriented database, even if the serial number problem could be
overcome. Thus, the whole point of bike registration as a reliable
way of recovering a stolen unit is compromised at the root. If it's
available in your area, though, getting it certainly does no harm, and
*might* help. If nothing else, should the registration system
suddenly start seeing huge numbers of units getting logged, it would
give the activists some verifiable publicly-generated stats to use in
trying to persuade officials of the needs for more consideration of
bikes as a transport alternative.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Quoted message said:

Yes, I admit I was stupid. And I feel totally helpless knowing that
there's nothing I can do to recover the bike. A google search says that
only 2% of bikes get recovered, that it's, essentially, the only type
of crime that is on the rise, and that the police don't have any
methods against it. What frustrates me most is that no research has
been done on bike theft whatsover: noone knows who the thiefs are and
noone knows who the dealers are. I haven't even heard of sting
operations: the police just don't give a damn.

The vast majority of bike thefts in this area are by two classes of
thief; steal-for-ride and steal-for-quick-sale. The latter typically
gets $10 for the bike because that's what the hot-bike-to-ride market
typically is willing to pay. (A pair of such thieves had been working
my neighborhood for a while, but they were caught when a neighborhood
watch participant spotted them at work; a little digging around turned
up some of what they'd grabbed, and data about the prices and such.)
The steal-for-ride types usually deface the bike heavily, spray
painting it, swapping wheels and other components to render it
visually unidentifiable, and then riding it until they break it...at
which point it ends up in a ditch. They tear up bikes a lot. I used
to see their handiwork at the police auctions; most of the bikes were
just department store units to start with, but there was a CDale once
that had been butchered badly by wheel swaps and mis-rigging, and it
apparently got bent in its final insult.

Expensive bikes stolen by a specialist (which is what I think your
thief was) will most likely end up fenced through the same channels
that handle other high-priced name-brand goods. The cops often have
an idea who's involved in such trade...but not often enough do they
have proof and/or sufficient information for a raid.

Quoted message said:

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

The recovered bikes are usually junk, and would net you a bunch of
largely teenage steal-for-ride jerks and nothing more. To catch the
specialists like your thief requires better bait than will be found in
the impound lots...and it requires more patience than the cops can
spare. How many times has someone left something in a car in your
garage unmolested? A trap has to be reasonably certain of being
sprung before it's worth setting.

Don't underestimate the possibility that your thief is a resident in
the building who likes to make a few bucks on the side selling stuff
to his frat buddies. People with lots of money often have no regard
for the law...or the rights and property of others.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.

Mark Hickey said:

Quoted message said:

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

I like the idea, though I suspect it's likely that they'd end up
scattered around the city in the hands of random crack-heads.

Maybe a better idea would be to fill the down tube with C4 and put a
five-minute delay detonator on the bike that's activated when it's
transported. You won't recover any bikes, but you might just reduce
the theft rate... ;-)

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

I did think of that but under the seat and non-fatal so they would never
ride again, or maybe sit. Effective, but too draconian in this country.
I bet in some countries where a bike is a valuable a a horse was a 100
years back some people might have some drastic measures.
Strange world, getting stranger.
Bill Baka

Quoted message said:

Hiya Mark:
Tempting, tempting, but when I last checked mantraps were illegal in
my state (CA). Apparently that rule dates back to when folks wired a
shotgun to the doorknob because motion detectors in burglar alarms
didn't exist, and burglar alarms themselves too expensive.
As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Robert Leone [email hidden]

I remember that, the ultimate red neck solution to home burglaries. It
did reduce the crime rate until people were arrested for murder because
the burglar was not already in the house but got blown away just for
opening the door. Good solution, bad implementation.
Bill

Werehatrack said:

Dirk Bonebrake said:

Quoted message said:

Hiya Mark:
Tempting, tempting, but when I last checked mantraps were illegal in
my state (CA). Apparently that rule dates back to when folks wired a
shotgun to the doorknob because motion detectors in burglar alarms
didn't exist, and burglar alarms themselves too expensive.
As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Robert Leone [email hidden]

In San Diego, the UCSD campus police provide CA. bike registration.

In Houston, TX, the fire department provides bike registrations, but
if the bike is recovered by any entity other than HPD, the database
will not be searched for a possible owner match.

Unfortunately, there are problems with bike registrations. First,
some bike manufacturers have used non-unique "serial" numbers on their
production, and others have used sequences that were not unique to
them. Second, as has often been pointed out, bikes are regarded by
lawmakers as more of an inconsequential item than a serious piece of
property; there is no interest at all in establishing a useful
recovery-oriented database, even if the serial number problem could be
overcome. Thus, the whole point of bike registration as a reliable
way of recovering a stolen unit is compromised at the root. If it's
available in your area, though, getting it certainly does no harm, and
*might* help. If nothing else, should the registration system
suddenly start seeing huge numbers of units getting logged, it would
give the activists some verifiable publicly-generated stats to use in
trying to persuade officials of the needs for more consideration of
bikes as a transport alternative.

A Picture of the bike, color, and it's fittings, along with the original
sales receipt might be hard for the police to just ignore. It doesn't
always work since I had a whole car stolen, wrecked, and impounded and
when I wanted to see if the car was worth getting out the officer
threatened to arrest me for hassling 'HIM'. San Jose police department
back in 1982. Me the victim, being threatened with arrest for demanding
my rights. What's up with that? I gave up and let them have the car.
Bill

Go to ebay. Set up and save a search. There is a facility to notify you
by email when a particular item (brand, frame size, etc) appears for
auction. Do not be surprised to see your bike.

Werehatrack said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, I admit I was stupid. And I feel totally helpless knowing that
there's nothing I can do to recover the bike. A google search says that
only 2% of bikes get recovered, that it's, essentially, the only type
of crime that is on the rise, and that the police don't have any
methods against it. What frustrates me most is that no research has
been done on bike theft whatsover: noone knows who the thiefs are and
noone knows who the dealers are. I haven't even heard of sting
operations: the police just don't give a damn.

The vast majority of bike thefts in this area are by two classes of
thief; steal-for-ride and steal-for-quick-sale. The latter typically
gets $10 for the bike because that's what the hot-bike-to-ride market
typically is willing to pay. (A pair of such thieves had been working
my neighborhood for a while, but they were caught when a neighborhood
watch participant spotted them at work; a little digging around turned
up some of what they'd grabbed, and data about the prices and such.)

Bike money = drug money, usually. Stealing then selling a Trek for $10
should bring at least 6 month HARD labor and no contact with other
inmates to brag about to or become friends after release.

Quoted message said:

The steal-for-ride types usually deface the bike heavily, spray
painting it, swapping wheels and other components to render it
visually unidentifiable, and then riding it until they break it...at
which point it ends up in a ditch.

I was a victim of that before I started locking my bikes into the garage
or bringing them into the house. One was stolen from my front door while
my wife was home and cooking and it was even in a closed court yard. 2
days later the bike was found a mile away, totally trashed after they
had fun laying it down and see who could jump on the wheels the hardest.

They tear up bikes a lot. I used

Quoted message said:

to see their handiwork at the police auctions; most of the bikes were
just department store units to start with, but there was a CDale once
that had been butchered badly by wheel swaps and mis-rigging, and it
apparently got bent in its final insult.

Expensive bikes stolen by a specialist (which is what I think your
thief was) will most likely end up fenced through the same channels
that handle other high-priced name-brand goods. The cops often have
an idea who's involved in such trade...but not often enough do they
have proof and/or sufficient information for a raid.

Quoted message said:

how about taking 100 unclaimed bikes from the police, istalling cheap
GPS devices inside the frames somehow, and tracking them to see where
the bikes end up?

Good idea but who is going to bait the trap and with what? Kids bikes in
the front yards are the usual losses, a Carbon fiber Trek with a
transponder would be good, but you might find that some 'Duh' type kid
stole it.

Quoted message said:

The recovered bikes are usually junk, and would net you a bunch of
largely teenage steal-for-ride jerks and nothing more. To catch the
specialists like your thief requires better bait than will be found in
the impound lots...and it requires more patience than the cops can
spare. How many times has someone left something in a car in your
garage unmolested? A trap has to be reasonably certain of being
sprung before it's worth setting.

Since when is a multi kilo buck Trek not worth pursuing over a POS used car?

Quoted message said:

Don't underestimate the possibility that your thief is a resident in
the building who likes to make a few bucks on the side selling stuff
to his frat buddies. People with lots of money often have no regard
for the law...or the rights and property of others.

That is way too true, and too bad a comment on the richer class.
Bill Baka

Bill Baka said:

Bike money = drug money, usually.

Any data to back this up?

Quoted message said:

Stealing then selling a Trek for $10
should bring at least 6 month HARD labor and no contact with other
inmates to brag about to or become friends after release.

Nice in Theory, but it costs 30k to lock someone up for a year, and
isolated hard-labor most likely would cost even more. Are you willing
to pay for that?

Rich

Rich said:

Bill Baka said:

Bike money = drug money, usually.

Any data to back this up?

Gut feeling. One bike buys a fix with very little chance of getting sent
to jail. A car buys many fixes with a big chance of jail.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Stealing then selling a Trek for $10

Quoted message said:

should bring at least 6 month HARD labor and no contact with other
inmates to brag about to or become friends after release.

Nice in Theory, but it costs 30k to lock someone up for a year, and
isolated hard-labor most likely would cost even more. Are you willing
to pay for that?

Rich

I don't want to pay for that but locking someone up with other criminals
just lets them make more criminal acquaintances. I learned that when I
spent a few weeks behind bars for pissing off a judge on a simple
traffic ticket. He gave me 2 weeks for attitude, not the ticket. The
people I met were not the cream of the crop so isolation and a bag of
good books would have been better. After that I said "Yes, your honor,
how could I be so wrong since you are obviously right.".
Sarcasm intended.
I have never gotten a ticket on a bike although once a cop did pull me
over and tell me that I was speeding. 35 in a 25 at the end of a nice
downhill, but he said he would be too embarrassed to write a speeding
ticket for a bicycle (no motor, registration, or insurance), among other
things.
Bill

Bill Baka said:

Mark Hickey wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Maybe a better idea would be to fill the down tube with C4 and put a
five-minute delay detonator on the bike that's activated when it's
transported. You won't recover any bikes, but you might just reduce
the theft rate... ;-)

I did think of that but under the seat and non-fatal so they would never
ride again, or maybe sit.

Or more importantly, never pass along their defective genes.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame

Quoted message said:

As for me, I'm still trying to find someplace where I can get
registration tags for my human-powered wheels. The fire dept doesn't do
it any more, and don't even ask about the cop shop....

Always happy to be the one to state the obvious, I'll offer this: Get
an electric engraving pen and carve your state and driver's license number
(e.g. CA 123456789) into several places on your bike, both visible and
not so visible. No guarantee it'll help, but if the cops recover your
bike they might notice the number and look it up.

Bill

-----------------------------------------
| The means are the ends in the making. |
| -- Mohandas K. Gandhi |
-----------------------------------------

Mark Hickey said:

Maybe a better idea would be to fill the down tube with C4 and put a
five-minute delay detonator on the bike that's activated when it's
transported. You won't recover any bikes, but you might just reduce
the theft rate... ;-)

Don't forget the "Pipe Bomb" sticker.