FistGlove Magnum

Donal Fagan <Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com> wrote in message
news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I just ordered a pair of purple XL FistGloves. The XL are for palms 3.25" and wider. My palms are
4" wide, so I'm looking forward to a better fit.

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

I love the title of your post, Donal. (I'm serious!)

Is Schwarzenegger going to play the lead, now that his Terminator commitments are out of the way?

-Eric

PS I can't resist the old adage. (Rated-G version) "You know what they say about men with big hands
... they wear big gloves"

(4precious) said:

PS I can't resist the old adage. (Rated-G version) "You know what they say about men with big hands
... they wear big gloves"

:-)

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

Thanks for the plug, Donal. Due to popular demand, I've once again begun to manufacture an XL
fistglove. I'd hoped to get by with S-M-L versions being a one-man company as well as a believer in
the KISS principle. However, I've discovered there are a lot of masters swimmers who find the L
simply not large enough. I trust the XL will be more to their liking and will enhance their use of
the closed fist drill.

And lest I bring on the ire of those denizens of the newsgroup who rightfully want to keep it
COMMERCIAL FREE, let me pose a serious question concerning fist swimming specifically and drills
in general:

How many of our readers/posters use "fist swimming" of any kind (with or without fistgloves)
as a drill?

It's probably not possible to determine who invented the "clenched fist" drill. We know Howard
Firby, the legendary Canadian coach, helped popularize it over 40 years ago. Firby was a
professional artist who used his skill to illustrate stroke technique in several best selling books.
He often carried a human shaped figure with him and manipulated it's arms and legs to give his
swimmers a compelling visual image of what he considered effective technique. A WWII pilot, Firby
studied aerodynamics to better understand flying. Later he studied hydrodynamics to better
understand swimming. He also studied biomechanics and physiology to gain an insight into effective
stroke technique. As Canada's first Swimming Technical Director, Firby is given credit for helping
initiate Canada's surge in international swimming success.

We also know Cecil Colwin, highly respected coach, lecturer, author and historian, helped
repopularize fist swimming by adding his own innovations, to wit, his "piano fingers" drills
suggesting swimmers not only hold their hands tightly clenched, but also hold their fingers in
different positions to better feel the flow of water around their hands. Colwin is almost unique
among coaches having produced world class swimmers on 3 different continents - first as one of the
greatest coaches South Africa ever produced (where one year he supplied their Olympic Team with all
but one of its swimmers), then as one of the preeminent Australian coaches of his time whose teams
won many national championships, and finally as one of Canada's greatest coaches.

My guess is most (if not all!) coaches have used "closed fist" drills with their swimmers. Obviously
there are hundreds of drills used by thousands of coaches to help isolate and/or exaggerate an
aspect of a swimmer's stroke with the hope that drill will effect a positive change (meaning that
swimmer will become more efficient and/or more effective when they race). Recently in our newsgroup
the question has been raised about the effectiveness of drills that exaggerate a swimmer's body roll
(to use an example). For me, that calls into question the very concept of drills.

Over the years I've vacillated between teaching my swimmers dozens of drills for each stroke (going
so far as to create charts for our drills, almost like the playbook used by an NFL quarterback,
where the drills became known simply by a nickname or a number - "OK, let's swim 200 yards of our
primary backstroke drill" or "Fly drill 3, please, fly drill 3"😉 to swimming almost all "whole
stroke" sets in practice.

Which side of the fence do you reside on? Are drills effective? If so, when? If not, what's the
alternative?

Respectfully submitted,

Scott

(Scott Lemley) said:

... I've discovered there are a lot of masters swimmers who find the L simply not large enough.

I can squeeze into the L, but there's a certain amount of hair-pulling involved.

Quoted message said:

How many of our readers/posters use "fist swimming" of any kind (with or without fistgloves)
as a drill?

I do, sporadically. I'm trying to work up the nerve to do FistFly.

Quoted message said:

Are drills effective? If so, when?

Yes. The only trouble with drilling is finding the time.

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

(Scott Lemley) said:

Oh and sorry Scott but I've never felt the need to use fistgloves.

Paul

Not a problem, Paul. I'm interested in the fact that you find merit

in

Quoted message said:

the drill itself. I think its a great fundamental drill.

I myself use the fist drill, and with my swimmers, and I find it very useful, but I have never felt
the need for fistgloves.
--
BD

"Scott Lemley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thanks for the plug, Donal. Due to popular demand, I've once again begun to manufacture an XL
fistglove. I'd hoped to get by with S-M-L versions being a one-man company as well as a believer
in the KISS principle. However, I've discovered there are a lot of masters swimmers who find the L
simply not large enough. I trust the XL will be more to their liking and will enhance their use of
the closed fist drill.

And lest I bring on the ire of those denizens of the newsgroup who rightfully want to keep it
COMMERCIAL FREE, let me pose a serious question concerning fist swimming specifically and drills
in general:

How many of our readers/posters use "fist swimming" of any kind (with or without fistgloves) as
a drill?

It's probably not possible to determine who invented the "clenched fist" drill. We know Howard
Firby, the legendary Canadian coach, helped popularize it over 40 years ago. Firby was a
professional artist who used his skill to illustrate stroke technique in several best selling
books. He often carried a human shaped figure with him and manipulated it's arms and legs to give
his swimmers a compelling visual image of what he considered effective technique. A WWII pilot,
Firby studied aerodynamics to better understand flying. Later he studied hydrodynamics to better
understand swimming. He also studied biomechanics and physiology to gain an insight into effective
stroke technique. As Canada's first Swimming Technical Director, Firby is given credit for helping
initiate Canada's surge in international swimming success.

We also know Cecil Colwin, highly respected coach, lecturer, author and historian, helped
repopularize fist swimming by adding his own innovations, to wit, his "piano fingers" drills
suggesting swimmers not only hold their hands tightly clenched, but also hold their fingers in
different positions to better feel the flow of water around their hands. Colwin is almost unique
among coaches having produced world class swimmers on 3 different continents - first as one of the
greatest coaches South Africa ever produced (where one year he supplied their Olympic Team with
all but one of its swimmers), then as one of the preeminent Australian coaches of his time whose
teams won many national championships, and finally as one of Canada's greatest coaches.

My guess is most (if not all!) coaches have used "closed fist" drills with their swimmers.
Obviously there are hundreds of drills used by thousands of coaches to help isolate and/or
exaggerate an aspect of a swimmer's stroke with the hope that drill will effect a positive
change (meaning that swimmer will become more efficient and/or more effective when they race).
Recently in our newsgroup the question has been raised about the effectiveness of drills that
exaggerate a swimmer's body roll (to use an example). For me, that calls into question the very
concept of drills.

Over the years I've vacillated between teaching my swimmers dozens of drills for each stroke
(going so far as to create charts for our drills, almost like the playbook used by an NFL
quarterback, where the drills became known simply by a nickname or a number - "OK, let's swim 200
yards of our primary backstroke drill" or "Fly drill 3, please, fly drill 3"😉 to swimming almost
all "whole stroke" sets in practice.

Which side of the fence do you reside on? Are drills effective? If so, when? If not, what's the
alternative?

Respectfully submitted,

Scott

I actually find fist drills very effective and wish we made more use of it in training. You get a
much better idea of the path your arm follows through the water and you can actually feel the
pressure of the water on the inside of your arms. Plus your hands feel enormous once you unclench
your fists! I'm wondering if it would be good to use as part of a gala warm up.

Oh and sorry Scott but I've never felt the need to use fistgloves.

Paul

(Scott Lemley) said:

Thanks for the plug, Donal. Due to popular demand, I've once again begun to manufacture an XL
fistglove. I'd hoped to get by with S-M-L versions being a one-man company as well as a believer in
the KISS principle. However, I've discovered there are a lot of masters swimmers who find the L
simply not large enough. I trust the XL will be more to their liking and will enhance their use of
the closed fist drill.

And lest I bring on the ire of those denizens of the newsgroup who rightfully want to keep it
COMMERCIAL FREE, let me pose a serious question concerning fist swimming specifically and drills
in general:

How many of our readers/posters use "fist swimming" of any kind (with or without fistgloves)
as a drill?

I'm beginning to use them religiuosly. I've used them for about a year but in the last 4-5
month I use them nearly every swim. I actually use them for all of my warm up laps and cool
down laps. On days that are technique oriented I'll use them between sets too. Everytime I
put them on I still get funny looks, from the "Awww that poor must have no hands" to "What
hell is that dork doing?"

<Sniped but interesting>.

Quoted message said:

Which side of the fence do you reside on? Are drills effective? If so, when? If not, what's the
alternative?

IMO drills are effective. The extent of effectiveness depends on the extent of the flaw that
is being attempted to be corrected. I find that simply swimming and concentrating on not
"reproducing" the flaw in the stroke works best for small corrections. However for
identifing and correcting larger flaws drills are invaluable.

~Matt

Quoted message said:

Respectfully submitted,

Scott

Donal writes in answer to my question, "Are drills effective? If so, when?",

<<Yes. The only trouble with drilling is finding the time.>>

One of my martial arts teachers told me he practiced deep breathing several hours each night to
replace part of the time he would ordinarily sleep. He felt an hour of slow, deep breathing (a very
common form of meditation) was worth about two hours of restful sleep. I partially adopted that
practice 25 years ago and usually sleep just 4 hours each night. I haven't used an alarm clock in
years. My eyes spring open and I sit up in bed around 3:15 am each morning, ready to go. I make a
cup of strong black tea and head to my office (10 steps from my house). I'll work until its time to
go back to the house and get my kids up and feed them breakfast. I'm usually asleep by 11:00 pm
every night.

What's the point of this story? What if your guru/coach/teacher/partner/friend told you 30 minutes
of drilling was worth "an hour's worth of swimming with impeccable technique". Let's put aside
questions of whether exactly 30 minutes of drilling would be worth exactly 60 minutes of mindful
swimming. When my teacher told me how beneficial slow, deep breathing was, I didn't question him. It
seemed to make perfect sense to me. Of course, coming from a "master", that predisposed me to
believing absolutely in its efficacy. However, if I had tried it and found I was MORE tired every
morning, I probably would have stopped the practice at some point.

Whose word would you take about drilling's efficacy? A great swimmer's anecdotal account of how much
drilling he/she does and the resulting times he/she's able to swim? A great coach's anecdotal
account of how much drilling his/her swimmer's perform in a given week and the resulting times
they're able to swim? A great sports scientist's preliminary results "proving" drilling is twice as
effective as whole stroke swimming? (Why "preliminary" results? Because science is all about
generating theories, testing them, refining premises, testing them, ad infinitum.)

And who would believe a sports scientist over a great coach if you were told he had the definitive
word on A. head position, B. more rolling vs less rolling, C.

Oh and sorry Scott but I've never felt the need to use fistgloves.

Paul

Not a problem, Paul. I'm interested in the fact that you find merit in the drill itself. I think its
a great fundamental drill.

Scott

R Buckminster Fuller claimed to sleep much less than the rest of us, too. He called it "Dymaxion
Sleeping" He used the name "Dymaxion" for a car and a house, too. Essentially, he slept a half hour
every six hours, which would be only two hours a day. I don't see how he ever got any REM sleep at
that rate.

Donal Fagan AIA Donal@DonalO'Fagan.com (Anglicise the name to reply by e-mail)

Quoted message said:

Over the years I've vacillated between teaching my swimmers dozens of drills for each stroke
(going so far as to create charts for our drills, almost like the playbook used by an NFL
quarterback, where the drills became known simply by a nickname or a number - "OK, let's swim 200
yards of our primary backstroke drill" or "Fly drill 3, please, fly drill 3"😉 to swimming almost
all "whole stroke" sets in practice.

Which side of the fence do you reside on? Are drills effective? If so, when? If not, what's the
alternative?

Here's my two-cents.

In the Masters group I belong to, we don't do that much drilling. And when we do, the coach gives us
a time interval which is pretty quick. So I see most people just swim regular to meet the interval.
Completely defeats the purpose of drills, which should be slow, contemplative, etc.

Is drilling effective? I don't know. But every sport I can think of breaks the activity down into
small drills to get better. It's unlikely swimming would be any different.

And here's maybe an idea that people might find useful:

I'm always thinking of ways to change my work-out routine - maybe I'll add weight training, or
stretching, or drilling on my own in another pool. And you know what? With a full job, and a family,
IT"S NEVER GOING TO HAPPEN! So my advice to myself, and others, is to incoporate new things whenever
possible in what you're already doing.

Drilling is a great example. Why not drill during the warm-up? That's almost 15 minutes of
"free-time" if we want to look at it that way. So instead of kicking, pulling, etc. Swim an easy
100 and then drill for the remaining time. Plus we always do an "easy-100" after the main set.
Once again, could drill there. And lastly, people take a lap or two at the end of the workout.
Drill again.

My point is, in the swim culture I'm in, unless I do drilling on my own, it ain't gonna happen. Is
it worth it ... I don't know.

-Eric

"4precious" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In the Masters group I belong to, we don't do that much drilling. And when we do, the coach gives
us a time interval which is pretty quick. So I see most people just swim regular to meet the
interval. Completely defeats the purpose of drills, which should be slow, contemplative, etc.

I couldn't agree more. I always told my swimmers that swimming was a thinking sport and drills were
the best opportunity to think about and work on weaknesses.

(snip)

So my advice to myself, and others, is to incoporate

Quoted message said:

new things whenever possible in what you're already doing.

Drilling is a great example. Why not drill during the warm-up? That's almost 15 minutes of
"free-time" if we want to look at it that way. So instead of kicking, pulling, etc. Swim an easy
100 and then drill for the remaining time. Plus we always do an "easy-100" after the main set.
Once again, could drill there. And lastly, people take a lap or two at the end of the workout.
Drill again.

Absolutely. From when I first started coaching, I was advised to include drill work in the warm-up
and recovery sets.

Quoted message said:

My point is, in the swim culture I'm in, unless I do drilling on my own, it ain't gonna happen. Is
it worth it ... I don't know.

If it helps improve your stroke and you're getting feedback to that effect.

Paul

As a working coach my effectiveness is not a matter of speculation. If the swimmers I work with
improve, I earn my paycheck and their trust. If they don't improve, somethings wrong and I better
change that something quickly or I'm gone. Swimming success is easier to calculate than success in
almost any other sport - there are no judges' scores to question as in figure skating or gymnastics;
there's very little strategy to employ trying to "match up" with an opponent as in basketball or
football or wrestling; you're not hoping for good weather running into or against the wind. If your
time is 1/100th of a second faster than your competition's time, you win, you're a success. That
tiny margin could prove the difference between a gold and silver medal at the Olympics. And in our
present culture of win-at-all-costs, often in the public's mind, the gold medalist is the "winner"
and the silver medalist is a "loser". All because you touch the wall a fraction of a second ahead of
the other guy or girl.

As an age group coach, I'm very aware that defining "success" isn't always about winning or losing.
In fact, the lessons a child learns about Life - cooperation, commitment, courage - will be the
more important lessons they take with them from their years as a club swimmer, more so than what
their head position was or how deep their catch was or how fast their best time was in any
particular event.

As a high school coach, I still attach quite a bit of importance to teaching Life skills in
addition to focusing on "participation" (important to your school's AD) and "school spirit"
(important to the athletes, especially those who aren't year around swimmers) as fundamental to how
I define success. However, high school seasons are very short (ours is 14 weeks) and high school
careers necessarily limited (4 years and out). The stakes are a little higher to achieve
competitive success with potential college scholarships on the line. The investment the athletes
are willing to make is typically greater than when they were younger. And improvement is just a
little more challenging to come by.

As an ex-college coach (20 years ago now), I remember still attaching some importance to learning
Life skills, however, from the perspective of the athletes and the administration, the focus was
definitely on achieving academic and athletic success. By the time we graduate from high school,
we're expected to have already learned the importance of commitment, cooperation, and courage. My
job was mainly to encourage my swimmers to keep their grades up and prepare them for the conference
(and in some cases, national) championships. And improvement was even more challenging to come by.

As a masters coach, I'm not expected to teach Life skills to anyone, though I might share my Life
Story with my athletes. Coaching adults is a whole different ballgame than coaching at the club,
high school or college level. Competitive success, however, is still measured the same way - that
1/100th of a second still spells the difference between 1st and 2nd place or 6th place and first
alternate. One of the most important aspects to remember when coaching masters is that there's the
mitigating circumstance of the relentless march of time to account for, as in Time is definitely NOT
on our side. Improvement from one year to the next is A LOT more challenging to come by. If you were
a good swimmer at the club, high school, or collegiate level, the chances of your improving from one
decade to the next are vastly reduced. To be sure, it happens. It's the exception, not the rule.
Swimming for health and happiness are the rule on masters teams.

So what's the point of this long and winding post? How much importance you attach to drills might
just depend on where you are on that continuum from 6 year old novice to 66 year old masters
swimmer. Obviously when you're just learning to swim, you can't be expected to have great mechanics,
timing, or rhythmn. You generally have little useful strength, endurance or speed and you've yet to
develop any race strategy. You've got to learn technique, build endurance, and gain experience
racing. Breaking down good stroke technique into bite-size pieces is the best way to start.

The first step for most novices is to understand what the coach is trying to teach them about a
balanced body, streamlined position, proper head tilt, an effective hand entry, how to anchor the
hand-forearm, relaxing as they swim, etc., etc. There's a lot to digest. Then swimmers need to make
those good stroke mechanics their habit - perfect practice, perfect practice, perfect practice.
Then they need to keep those good stroke habits (first at relaxed tempos) even when they get tired.
Then they need to maintain those good habits when they swim at faster and faster tempos where they
begin to encounter even more resistance from the water and they start to struggle. Finally they
need to maintain those good habits / mechanics over the duration of the race at the fastest
possible tempo (for that given distance) under the pressure of head-to-head competition. That's not
much to ask is it?

<<In the Masters group I belong to, we don't do that much drilling. And when we do, the coach gives
us a time interval which is pretty quick. So I see most people just swim regular to meet the
interval. Completely defeats the purpose of drills, which should be slow, contemplative, etc.>>

Here's my motto as a coach at every level (who wants to keep earning that paycheck and the trust of
his swimmers): "First learn to swim, then train to race". That holds true from club to masters
coaching. I think good stroke mechanics are fundamental to having success as a swimmer and using
drills is how I teach the fundamentals. Training for endurance, strength and speed HAS to come AFTER
you've given your athletes sound technique.

Now . . . a swimmer's "talent" comes to bear on how much time and effort I'll invest in teaching
them how to swim, meaning, help them master effective technique. The most talented swimmer I ever
coached was a 10 year old girl who walked on my deck one day about 20 years ago and asked to join
the team. She said she'd never swum on a team before and had never taken lessons. I thought, what
the heck, jump in and show me how well you swim and I'll turn you over to our novice coach. She
swam a 37 second 50 breaststroke. I was literally astonished. I had never seen that level of
natural talent before. I wanted to coach/learn from her, not give her over to my novice coach. In a
couple months time she was down to 33 seconds in practice - well under the state record and also
well under the national reportable time standard. She hadn't even swum in a race yet. I couldn't
wait. This is definitely a future Olympian I thought. How young and naive I was. One day she didn't
show up for practice and then she was gone without a trace. I've seen extreme talent. I'm not sure
I need to teach anyone that talented "how to swim". She wasn't just one in a hundred; she was one
in a million.

For me, as a coach with limited time and space, if I think a swimmer already has "good" technique, I
start to train them, that is, give them fewer straight drill sets and more sets designed to build
endurance. They don't have to have "great" technique at that point. I'll continue to tweak their
technique as we build endurance. At some point I'll start to design sets (and dryland training
sessions) so they'll make strength gains. Then I'll add speed to the equation so that strength
becomes power. On and on and on. All the while tweaking their stroke mechanics to reflect their
gains in other areas, not JUST endurance, strength, etc., but also height, weight, and flexibility.

So how much importance do I attach to drills? Depends on the swimmer. Some swimmers need to drill
the majority of their practice. Having them pound bad technique into a habit would be criminal. Some
swimmers need to drill very little. I get paid the big bucks to make that determination one swimmer
at a time. I don't think there's a formula for how much drilling to do or what drill to use. If a
coach is insightful, alert, and is always working with his or her athletes, over time you get it
right. And your swimmers improve. And they have success. And you collect another paycheck. And
perhaps MOST importantly, you earn your athlete's trust so that when you ask them to step up their
commitment, they'll give you their best, focused attention, and swim as relaxed as they can.

Scott