Parents For Helmets

Tom Crispin said:

I give the children the reason for wearing them, they can reduce the
severity of certain head injuries, which is pretty much indisputable.

Bad logic. Carrying a lucky rabbits foot can indisputably _prevent_
the severity of certain injuries - for example, any arising following
an ugly bloke saying "give me a lucky rabbits foot or I'll pound
your face in".

Otherwise, I think you're probably right, and making the best of a bad
situation.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Colin McKenzie said:

As suggested elsewhere, parents need a factsheet to explain why their
anxiety is misplaced, so that they can make an informed decision. Most
still won't, but at least you've done something to counter the myth in
their minds. Before the course is a better time for this discussion
than during it.

OK. Let's move forward on this and be constructive. Let's use this
group to write a *cycling to school* fact sheet.

I'd suggest the following sub headings:
*Introduction
*Selecting the right bike
*Setting up and maintaining a bike
*Safe cycling strategy (including headwear)

This is to be an A4 colour leaflet with a single fold, to be available
on PDF download on a site which someone must volunteer to host.

I'll provide any photos with the necessary parental consent, but if we
want unhelmeted children we'll have to get the photos from elsewhere.

Tom Crispin said:

OK. Let's move forward on this and be constructive.

Amen to that!

Quoted message said:

Let's use this
group to write a *cycling to school* fact sheet.

Perhaps have words with the CTC, since they're working on a lot of
the basic training materials and this would be an excellent
addition to them. Aside from possibly some direct input on the
real meat they'll have more pictures than you can shake a stick at,
and the latest Cycle specifically notes helmeted and unhelmeted
pictures are available or are commissioned as needed.

To some extent the content will depend on the age group, so I think
that should be specified (older children will probably have more
experience and/or be covering greater distances). Possibly
different versions for different age groups.

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest the following sub headings:
*Introduction
*Selecting the right bike
*Setting up and maintaining a bike
*Safe cycling strategy (including headwear)

In the final sub-heading, I'd quite deliberately not call attention
to headwear in the title.

It may well be worth adding sections on cycle security, and one
about the usefulness of training.

Quoted message said:

This is to be an A4 colour leaflet with a single fold, to be available
on PDF download on a site which someone must volunteer to host.

I can host it without any great problem.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Tom Crispin said:

Colin McKenzie said:

As suggested elsewhere, parents need a factsheet to explain why their
anxiety is misplaced, so that they can make an informed decision. Most
still won't, but at least you've done something to counter the myth in
their minds. Before the course is a better time for this discussion
than during it.

OK. Let's move forward on this and be constructive. Let's use this
group to write a *cycling to school* fact sheet.

I'd suggest the following sub headings:
*Introduction

Doesn't types of bikes come into this?

Quoted message said:

*Selecting the right bike

Surely at this age group a 'getting a bike that fits is more
appropriate?
I'd try to get an A B C type approach, possibly using traffic lights.

Ready:
Are you ready? (loose flappy clothing, weather, appropriate dress for
the activity) Is the bike ready?(brakes, tyres, loose bits, lights)

Steady
Choosing a safe route. Legal (where can/can't I cycle).

Go
Look before you leap. Road positioning. Signalling. Gears.
More advanced dealing with traffic eg. Not riding up the inside of
busses/Lorries.
If in doubt, get off and walk.

And a half section max on what kinds of cycling to try (weblink to
Go-ride, cycle trips with parents in

Quoted message said:

*Setting up and maintaining a bike
*Safe cycling strategy (including headwear)

This is to be an A4 colour leaflet with a single fold, to be available
on PDF download on a site which someone must volunteer to host.

I'll provide any photos with the necessary parental consent, but if we
want unhelmeted children we'll have to get the photos from elsewhere.

I may well be able to do some pics. I can provide some examples from
the back of cycle maps that could provide some inspiration. There is
also a whole load of 'Traffic Club' stuff that pre-primary kids in
Scotland get sent which could also be useful - covers things like
looking out for cars reversing out of driveways etc.

...d

Peter Clinch said:

Tom Crispin said:

OK. Let's move forward on this and be constructive.

Amen to that!

Quoted message said:

Let's use this
group to write a *cycling to school* fact sheet.

Perhaps have words with the CTC, since they're working on a lot of
the basic training materials and this would be an excellent
addition to them. Aside from possibly some direct input on the
real meat they'll have more pictures than you can shake a stick at,
and the latest Cycle specifically notes helmeted and unhelmeted
pictures are available or are commissioned as needed.

To some extent the content will depend on the age group, so I think
that should be specified (older children will probably have more
experience and/or be covering greater distances). Possibly
different versions for different age groups.

The prime audience should not be the children but the parents.
I'm not quite sure you have grasped the fact that in many cases (most IME)
comment on helmet use, or lack of it, comes not from the children but from
the adults.
Many of these adults you will never have the opportunity to meet :-(

BTW you are also welcome to attend any of my sessions to experience the
real world of training and the very difficult situations that instructors
can find themselves in.

John B

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 17:04:35 +0100, Peter Clinch
<[email hidden]> wrote:

Quick reply here. More later.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

*Safe cycling strategy (including headwear)

In the final sub-heading, I'd quite deliberately not call attention
to headwear in the title.

That was not my intent, just to show which section we would include
comments on headwear.

Peter Clinch said:

Quoted message said:

Let's use this
group to write a *cycling to school* fact sheet.

Perhaps have words with the CTC, since they're working on a lot of
the basic training materials and this would be an excellent
addition to them. Aside from possibly some direct input on the
real meat they'll have more pictures than you can shake a stick at,
and the latest Cycle specifically notes helmeted and unhelmeted
pictures are available or are commissioned as needed.

The price CTC charge for the most basic materials is prohibitive. A
single National Standards' Certificate is 80p! I print my own, I have
been meaning to upload it to the Instructors' Forum so its freely
available.

Quoted message said:

To some extent the content will depend on the age group, so I think
that should be specified (older children will probably have more
experience and/or be covering greater distances). Possibly
different versions for different age groups.

As I only work with the primary age range, it would be directed at
parents of children at that age.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd suggest the following sub headings:
*Introduction
*Selecting the right bike
*Setting up and maintaining a bike
*Safe cycling strategy (including headwear)

It may well be worth adding sections on cycle security, and one
about the usefulness of training.

Can those be included in 'safe cycling strategy'?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

This is to be an A4 colour leaflet with a single fold, to be available
on PDF download on a site which someone must volunteer to host.

I can host it without any great problem.

Great. Perhaps it would be better as a Word doc, so people can edit
and use to suit their own purposes.

John B said:

The prime audience should not be the children but the parents.
I'm not quite sure you have grasped the fact that in many cases (most IME)
comment on helmet use, or lack of it, comes not from the children but from
the adults.

I'd grasped it quite well, actually: different considerations for
different ages will apply to parents of the children too.

Quoted message said:

BTW you are also welcome to attend any of my sessions to experience the
real world of training and the very difficult situations that instructors
can find themselves in.

Thanks for the nice bit of patronising, but I have my own real
world of training, even if it's not as concentrated or
child-centred as yours.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Erik Sandblom said:

I grew up in a culture of poor bike maintenance. It was dangerous. I only
started taking care of my brakes because my girlfriend told me to.

Later on at university, I didn't take bike lights seriously until I was
fined by the police when they had a big crackdown. Until then I saw them as
a bonus to be used if I remembered them, and if the batteries weren't dead.
Being fined by the police made me reconsider.

Maybe I was just lucky. My dad is a civil engineer who understands
risk. He was rock climbing in the 1940s and 1950s before much of the
current safety equipment was available.
I was brought up by my dad explaining the risk involved in things,
and the correct way to recognise and eliminate or reduce the risk. This
applied to DIY use of tools, climbing, canoeing whatever. My dad wasn't
a cyclist but using the same logic I never cycled with unsafe brakes or
without lights at night.
So while I personally have found some of the courses I have been
put on unnecessary perhaps some others do benefit from them.

Iain

Peter Clinch said:

John B said:

BTW you are also welcome to attend any of my sessions to experience the
real world of training and the very difficult situations that instructors
can find themselves in.

Thanks for the nice bit of patronising,

Apologies if it seemed that way. It was not meant to be, but your arguments have
seemed to be on rather black and white lines rather than what may be experienced
by an instructor.

Quoted message said:

but I have my own real
world of training, even if it's not as concentrated or
child-centred as yours.

I'm pleased.

BTW, FWIW our training is fairly evenly spread over the whole range of ages,
abilities and client type and is not child-centred at all.

<thinks> ....perhaps start another thread.

John B

Peter Clinch said:

....I have my own real
world of training, even if it's not as concentrated or
child-centred as yours.

This made me wonder what type of cyclists are taking training. As we have
several instructors here, who is actually being trained? It might help focus
where material on matters such as helmets should be focussed.

For example, last week training included...

2 child beginners aged 8 years old;
1 beginner aged 14;
2 retired ladies wishing to cycle in France for a holiday together;
A family who wanted to ride trails together;
A retired lady who wants to buy a bike for a charity ride;
An adult who wanted training to ride 15 miles each way to work along a major A
class road;
A group of children in a youth inclusion project in a 'difficult' area;
Several mixed groups of 8-11 yr old children whose Mum's wanted them to do
cycling proficiency as their schools don't provide it.

When I made the list above the variety surprised me.
The coming week is much the same.

It could make a generic factsheet on helmets (and other issues) somewhat
difficult to produce.

Who are other instructors being approached by?

John B

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:30:55 +0100, John B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

<thinks> ....perhaps start another thread.

Aren't we going for a urc record thread length? ;-)

On Sun, 09 Apr 2006 21:48:29 +0100, John B <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Who are other instructors being approached by?

I work almost exclusively with children at the school where I am a
teacher. A few parents and colleagues are trained with the children.
The factsheet I have in mind is aimed at parents of primary aged
children, although it would be of more general use.

"Tom Crispin" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Helmets are a separate issue. It is mandatory for a child to wear a
helmet when on their bike, and it is my responsibility to enforce that
rule. For an instructor, when training, not to wear a helmet may be
seen as hypocritical and send out mixed messages.

I rather think that it would send a clear and simple message:

"The people who are making you wear this helmet are wrong, but because you
are children, you cannot do anything about it. Remember this when you are
old enough to vote."