how to convince someone cycling isn't dangerous

Ib said:

Peter Clinch said:

Simon Brooke said:

Department for National Statistics:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=7250&Pos=&ColRank=1&Rank=272

Bicycle, 29.5 deaths per billion passenger kilometers
Walking, 44.8 deaths per billion passenger kilometers

So very substantially safer than walking.

Though open to the criticism that you'll probably do more km on the
bike.

You might, but the population as a whole probably walks further than it
rides.

Then again, the distance between home and work does not tend to vary in
accordance with one's mode of transport.

Not Responding wrote:

I thought NR was SO?

...d

David Martin said:

Not Responding wrote:

I thought NR was SO?

..d

Until I discovered how to tweak Google Groups.

Not Responding said:

Then again, the distance between home and work does not tend to vary in
accordance with one's mode of transport.

Oh yes it does. Not from day to day, of course, but someone planning to
commute by car will look at houses in a much wider area than someone
planning to commute by bike, including places which would be completely
impractical for someone planning to commute by public transport.

"Adam Lea" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

When I told my mother I was cycling to work a couple of times a week she
was worried that I am going to have an accident due to a motorist not
seeing me. I have come across websites that give convincing arguments that
cycling isn't dangerous, at least compared to many other everyday
activities, but I cannot find them now. Could anyone here point me to some
websites that might stop my mother from worrying unnecessarily about me
(or give some good arguments themselves)?

Thanks

Adam

I am a mother. The job description of being a mother includes the duty to
worry about offspring for their entire lives, from birth through to the day
you (the parent) depart this earth. It is second in the list of rules for
motherhood, only surpassed by the number 1 rule which requires parents to
embarrass their offspring when offspring are teenagers by doing things such
as dancing at parties inna-1980s-disco-stylee at every possible opportunity.

My offspring is a teenger - he cycles 26-miles a day to college & back. I
would *not* allow him to do it if it was inherantly unsafe. It is a
remarkably safe thing to do, and it keeps him fit, develops independence and
road awareness, all of which will stand him in good stead to be an outgoing,
independent & healthy adult. It is the natural tendency of a mother to wrap
the offspring in cottonwool. I have this tendency too, and I know I have to
fight against this - as the main part of the job is to raise the offspring
to be confident, independent adults. This conflict between being
overprotective and allowing the offspring to be independent is one that does
not resolve itself easily. Being a mother is not easy.

If you are an adult, you make your own decisions - if you are not an adult,
you are limited by what your parents allow you to do and not do. Some limits
are entirely reasonable, some are not.

Suggestions - get some cycle training to show your mother you cycle safely.
Get the book Cyclecraft, read, absorb and put into practise the cycling
techniques described therein. It's good stuff. Use lights when it's iffy
visibility... wear fluorescents/reflectives... do what you can to help
reduce any risks.

Finally - life is a risk. It comes with no guarantees other than one day, we
die. It's nice if that particular bit happens after a long, happy and
healthy life, but there are no guarantees. In the meantime, cycling is fun
and relatively safe and it keeps you fit. Enjoy life.

Cheers, helen s

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Not Responding said:

Then again, the distance between home and work does not tend to vary in
accordance with one's mode of transport.

Oh yes it does. Not from day to day, of course, but someone planning to
commute by car will look at houses in a much wider area than someone
planning to commute by bike, including places which would be completely
impractical for someone planning to commute by public transport.

Sorry to be pedantic but I think you'll find that the distance between home
and work _doesn't_ change if you change your mode of transport....

..... of course your mode of transport _may_ change if the distance changes
;-)

HTH

"Peter Clinch" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

Walking is also a pretty healthy activity so I think we need to be
careful about claiming the moral high ground here.

Perhaps more "need to be careful about choice of words looking like
claiming the high ground"... I didn't mean to imply cycling is
particularly better than walking, rather that cycling is better than what
most people default to: motor transport.

Nor did I think you had. It was a question of choice of words.

T

"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I am a mother. The job description of being a mother includes the duty to
worry about offspring for their entire lives,

snip

Yesbut

You, sweet Waffles, are a cyclist so appreciate the dangers of cycling and
the pleasures and advantages. As such you can take an informed choice about
the safety or otherwise of letting Nathan loose on the roads of Narfuk.

Sadly, most parents are not cyclists so do not have that intimate personal
experience of the activity in which their offspring wishes to engage. As
such they tend to default to 'its dangerous -- don't do it'.

My own Mother cycled, climbed mountains (well, the weenie British ones) and
various other 'dangerous' activities as a girl. She had little or no
problems with me doing any of these things -- or other activities she would
have liked to have had the opportunity to try such as skiing and canoeing
(though she was never completely comfortable about my cycling in London).
She went totally ape-[censored], however, when I came back raving about the
delights of potholing. Logical -- no, understandable -- maybe.

In contrast, of course, she was eternally grateful that I did not have to
partake in the most dangerous activity she experienced as a teenager --
sitting in an air-raid shelter being blitzed. On balance, so am I. It
never sounded like a barrel of laughs.

T

T

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 08:00:48 +0100, Budstaff wrote
(in article <[email hidden]>😉:

Quoted message said:

[...]
Sorry to be pedantic but I think you'll find that the distance between home
and work _doesn't_ change if you change your mode of transport....

Crow flights maybe, but I'm sure you too know of short cuts a bike can take
that a car can't.

On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:28:58 +0100 someone who may be "Tony W"
<[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

In contrast, of course, she was eternally grateful that I did not have to
partake in the most dangerous activity she experienced as a teenager --
sitting in an air-raid shelter being blitzed. On balance, so am I. It
never sounded like a barrel of laughs.

What are the figures? I suspect that the real dangers were not that
"obvious". Motorists driving around with inadequate front lights
were certainly more dangerous than Mr Goering's bunch. I also
suspect that bits of metal from anti-aircraft guns were fairly
dangerous to the public.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

In article said:

"Alan Braggins" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Not Responding said:

Then again, the distance between home and work does not tend to vary in
accordance with one's mode of transport.

Oh yes it does. Not from day to day, of course, but someone planning to
commute by car will look at houses in a much wider area than someone
planning to commute by bike, including places which would be completely
impractical for someone planning to commute by public transport.

Sorry to be pedantic but I think you'll find that the distance between home
and work _doesn't_ change if you change your mode of transport....

You might find http://homepage.ntlworld.com/tibsnjoan/pedants.html useful.
In this case, you should indeed be sorry.

In article <[email hidden]>,

(Simon Brooke) said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Adam Lea

(') said:

When I told my mother I was cycling to work a couple of times a week
she was worried that I am going to have an accident due to a motorist
not seeing me. I have come across websites that give convincing
arguments that cycling isn't dangerous, at least compared to many
other
everyday activities, but I cannot find them now. Could anyone here
point me to some websites that might stop my mother from worrying
unnecessarily about me (or give some good arguments themselves)?

Department for National Statistics:
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/StatBase/ssdataset.asp?vlnk=7250&Pos=&ColRa
nk=1&Rank=272

Bicycle, 29.5 deaths per billion passenger kilometers
Walking, 44.8 deaths per billion passenger kilometers

So very substantially safer than walking. Both these numbers are
falling, but cycling is getting safer faster than walking is.

However, if one only looks at the numbers in that table, including those
for car and van, travelling by car is far, far safer, and by van safest of
all. So, the raw numbers probably arne't very helpful, and safety is not
necessarily the primary issue.

Adam Lea said:

When I told my mother I was cycling to work a couple of times a week she was
worried that I am going to have an accident due to a motorist not seeing me.

You've had lots of good replies, but they all seem to have a fairly
fundamental flaw, i.e. they appeal to your mother's logical side,
whereas its her emotional side that is causing the problem. I've had a
similar problem in the past when my mum used to worry about me going
white water kayaking. The programme "999" didn't help as it seemed to
have a recurring theme of "watch the kayaker get totally stuffed"
around that time.

I tried reason, e.g. explaining that the people you see on "999" had
got themselves into a situation that I wouldn't have got myself into
for whatever reason (knowledge/experience or, more often, cowardice!),
but that didn't work. In the end I settled for familiarity, i.e. keep
kayaking/cycling/whatever and keep coming back in one piece (bumps and
bruises can be hidden). That way she'll get used to the idea that
you've not got some sort of death wish. [1] And in the very unlikely
event of you not coming back in one piece then she can utter the
eternal mother's chant "I told you so!" 🙂

Graeme

[1] Although I did seem to reawaken my mum's maternal fears when I told
her the other week that I was entering the Avon Descent (a 134km
whitewater/marathon race in Western Australia). You could hear the
stress in her voice from thousands of miles away! :-/

Adam Lea said:

When I told my mother I was cycling to work a couple of times a week she was
worried that I am going to have an accident due to a motorist not seeing me.

You've had lots of good replies, but they all seem to have a fairly
fundamental flaw, i.e. they appeal to your mother's logical side,
whereas its her emotional side that is causing the problem. I've had a
similar problem in the past when my mum used to worry about me going
white water kayaking. The programme "999" didn't help as it seemed to
have a recurring theme of "watch the kayaker get totally stuffed"
around that time.

I tried reason, e.g. explaining that the people you see on "999" had
got themselves into a situation that I wouldn't have got myself into
for whatever reason (knowledge/experience or, more often, cowardice!),
but that didn't work. In the end I settled for familiarity, i.e. keep
kayaking/cycling/whatever and keep coming back in one piece (bumps and
bruises can be hidden). That way she'll get used to the idea that
you've not got some sort of death wish. [1] And in the very unlikely
event of you not coming back in one piece then she can utter the
eternal mother's chant "I told you so!" 🙂

Graeme

[1] Although I did seem to reawaken my mum's maternal fears when I told
her the other week that I was entering the Avon Descent (a 134km
whitewater/marathon race in Western Australia). You could hear the
stress in her voice from thousands of miles away! :-/

Not Responding said:

David Martin said:

Not Responding wrote:

I thought NR was SO?

..d

Until I discovered how to tweak Google Groups.

Are you still visiting the 'other' place?