General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Cramping/muscle spasms during long runs and throughout the day/night

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
20 March 2006
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21 March 2006
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  1. Hi all. This is my first post to this group.

    I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
    completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
    year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
    hard.

    I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
    muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
    but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
    pretty much my entire leg.

    Today I ran the LA Marathon kind of last minute and around mile 18 or
    so it started feeling like various muscles in my legs were about to
    spasm (mostly my calves and groin). I ended up alternating walking and
    running the last five miles or so to prevent all-out spasm.

    I'm wondering if these problems are related and if there's anything
    that can be done for either issue. I have made a lot of dietary
    changes over the last year and I'm wondering if that is playing a role.
    I'm eating what I think is a pretty healthy diet right now (lots of
    fruits, veggies, whole grains and essential oils) but I'm wondering if
    I'm missing out on something that could be causing some of these
    problems.

    I'm supposed to run the Rock-n-Roll the first week of June so I'm
    hoping to get this figured out before then. Any and all
    advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!!!

  2. Quoted message said:

    I've been running for the last few years

    Didn't you get tired after a few days?

  3. <[email hidden]> wrote in

    Quoted message said:

    Today I ran the LA Marathon kind of last minute and around mile 18 or
    so it started feeling like various muscles in my legs were about to
    spasm (mostly my calves and groin). I ended up alternating walking and
    running the last five miles or so to prevent all-out spasm.

    Jon:

    I've quoted what I've learned about cramping from a reply I wrote a while
    ago.
    In brief, it's likely to be dehydration. Here's the long version:
    =====
    If your cramps were affecting more than a single muscle (eg, both sides, if
    you stop and stretch, something else cramps, if you feel funny pre-cramp
    twinges in other places, etc), then you are dehydrated.

    It took me a couple of years to figure it out. I would cramp on longer
    races typically after 3.5 - 5 hours, especially in hot or humid conditions.
    After one particularly bad race, I weighed myself after I had to walk in
    because of cramps. I had lost about 8 lbs (and I started at 152 lbs).

    You say you stayed hydrated, but did you weigh yourself before and after the
    race? I have downed quarts of liquid in long races and still have come up
    5-8 lbs light at the end.

    The proof that it is hydration is this (if this sounds too simple to be
    true):

    Next time it happens, stop and drink 20-20 ounces of fluid. Take a couple
    of
    salt tablets (I use succeed brand), too. Start walking. If you can begin
    to jog again without cramps, that was it. When this has happened to me in
    races, as little as 20oz chugged quickly with salt has ended them within 2-3
    minutes. Don't try and jog through the cramps -- that causes muscle damage.
    If you rip yourself up, the water will stop the cramps, but not the pain
    from running on shredded muscles.

    You are a big guy, with a high BMI (look it up). The higher the BMI, the
    higher the heat load (less surface area per weight). So you run hotter than
    the skinny ones. So you sweat more. In addition, you may have a high sweat
    rate to boot.

    Next race, weigh yourself before and after, take into account how much you
    drank during, and determine your sweating rate (under that set of
    conditions -- temp, humdity). I need about 40oz/hour when racing in 65
    degrees when its humid, for example.

    Finally, you need to replace salt if you're going to be drinking more than a
    quart or two of fluid in a race. To the tune of 1 gram of sodium/liter
    (about 2/3 tsp of pure salt per quart). This is the amount of salt in your
    sweat. Without salt replacement, your sodium concentration declines. When
    that happens:

    You sweat less (and overheat).

    You drink and the fluid sloshes around in your stomach instead of being
    absorbed.
    (it sloshes around because you need to pump sodium into your stomach in
    order to absorb water. When your body is low on it, it suppresses this
    process to conserve your plasma sodium concentration)

    You feel queasy, and may not even want to drink.

    In extreme cases you can get Hyponatremia and it will kill you. (rare).

    So you get a vicious cycle of your body needing water, yet you feel queasy
    and it won't absorb. The solution is to take a Succeed tablet for every
    pint or two you drink during a long race. Salt with water enables your
    stomach to absorb a 20 oz bottle in 2-4 minutes.

    NFI in Succeed, salt, or water...

    -- Dan

  4. Quoted message said:

    Hi all. This is my first post to this group.

    I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
    completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
    year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
    hard.

    I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
    muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
    but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
    pretty much my entire leg.

    Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can cause
    muscle "twitchiness" and taking a supplement for a short time will be
    relatively harmless and may help. If it *does* help, you ought to check
    your diet because most people shouldn't get deficient.

    Tim

  5. Tim Downie said:

    Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can
    cause muscle "twitchiness"

    I started taking supplemental magnesium & calcium (currently in a tasty
    blueberry flavored liquid form, with yogurt and almond milk over my
    breakfast cereal) on this ng's advice, to combat nighttime cramps in my calf
    and foot. That seems to have worked for the cramps, but I still often have
    a fair bit of muscle firing / releasing / twitching, especially after a hard
    effort (like a half marathon race), especially in my calves. It seems like
    the same kind of twitches as the muscle releases I get when rolling
    hips/glutes on a firm rubber ball.

    Just FWIW. I'm not to worried about what that means to me, as long as I
    don't wake up with the horrible calf cramps.

  6. This is great stuff. Thinking back to yesterday it certainly could
    have been dehydration. I probably didn't consume more than 20-30/oz of
    fluid throughout the entire race let alone per hour. Not the brightest
    thing in the world huh? The weather was fairly cool (mid-50s most of
    the race) and not humid but regardless I realize that getting more
    fluids is probably one very important thing for the future.

    The recommendations on the salt tablets is really good too. That's
    definitely something I will plan to do in the future and experiment
    with on my training runs.

    I'll also look into magnesium & calcium supplements. I don't currently
    do any nutritional supplements figuring that I get most of what I need
    through a pretty healhty diet. Can anyone point me to a resource
    detailing what sort of supplementation might make sense for distance
    runners?

    Thanks again for all your help here. It means a lot to me! 🙂

  7. Charlie,

    I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney stone
    you will wish you never took in extra calcium. I'd stick to potassium and
    get it through bananas.

    Bob

    "Charlie Pendejo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Tim Downie said:

    Hi, have a google for magnesium deficiency. May be nothing but it can
    cause muscle "twitchiness"

    I started taking supplemental magnesium & calcium (currently in a tasty
    blueberry flavored liquid form, with yogurt and almond milk over my
    breakfast cereal) on this ng's advice, to combat nighttime cramps in my
    calf and foot. That seems to have worked for the cramps, but I still
    often have a fair bit of muscle firing / releasing / twitching, especially
    after a hard effort (like a half marathon race), especially in my calves.
    It seems like the same kind of twitches as the muscle releases I get when
    rolling hips/glutes on a firm rubber ball.

    Just FWIW. I'm not to worried about what that means to me, as long as I
    don't wake up with the horrible calf cramps.

  8. [email hidden] wrote in news:1142827074.191685.13010
    @i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

    Quoted message said:

    Hi all. This is my first post to this group.

    I've been running for the last few years and recently (today!)
    completed my fourth marathon. My goal is to qualify for Boston this
    year (will need a 3:10 as I'm a 30 y/o male) so I need to push pretty
    hard.

    I've been noticing lately that throughout the day and at night the
    muscles in my legs have been "firing" a lot. It's not painful at all
    but just feels kinds of strange. It's my calves, quads, hamstrings,
    pretty much my entire leg.

    I'm supposed to run the Rock-n-Roll the first week of June so I'm
    hoping to get this figured out before then. Any and all
    advice/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!!!

    The main electrolytes affecting muscle cramping are potassium, sodium
    and calcium.

    http://www.medicinenet.com/muscle_cramps/page2.htm

  9. BobB said:

    I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney
    stone you will wish you never took in extra calcium.

    Hey Bob, thanks for the heads-up. I will read up on it.

  10. Charlie Pendejo said:
    BobB said:

    I'd be very careful of calcium supplements. If you ever get a kidney
    stone you will wish you never took in extra calcium.

    Hey Bob, thanks for the heads-up. I will read up on it.


    And that naked pic of your genitalia was great! Lots of good wanking
    material.

    CP

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