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Atypical Plantar Fasciitis?

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General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
30 March 2006
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2 April 2006
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Jack
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  1. 1) Pain Worse in Morning.
    NO. Pain levels constant throughout day.

    2) Overweight.
    NO. Bodyfat in single digits.

    3) Sudden increase in activities.
    NO. Activity levels constant for past 9 years.

    4) Bad shoes.
    NO. Same size, brand, and model for many years.

    5) Overpronation.
    NO. If anything, just the opposite.

    6) Flat-feet
    NO. Water test shows normal foot pattern.

    7) Typical PF pain distribution.
    YES. Origin where fascia attach to inner aspect of calcaneus. This
    was the only positive finding of typical PF.

    Go figure, eh.

  2. (Jack) said:

    1) Pain Worse in Morning.
    NO. Pain levels constant throughout day.

    2) Overweight.
    NO. Bodyfat in single digits.

    3) Sudden increase in activities.
    NO. Activity levels constant for past 9 years.

    4) Bad shoes.
    NO. Same size, brand, and model for many years.

    5) Overpronation.
    NO. If anything, just the opposite.

    6) Flat-feet
    NO. Water test shows normal foot pattern.

    7) Typical PF pain distribution.
    YES. Origin where fascia attach to inner aspect of calcaneus. This
    was the only positive finding of typical PF.

    Go figure, eh.

    And the stretching exercises help not?

    But the pain is mitigated when you cease running/jogging?

    Did you try "Life Without Running" for 4 weeks or more??

    You are 62? No offence, but there's probably a handful of
    folks here on alt.support.chronic-pain that'd be happy as
    larks if they could -walk- normally for 5 or 10 minutes ...

    Cheers,
    Puddin'

  3. In article <[email hidden]>, Jack

    Quoted message said:

    4) Bad shoes.
    NO. Same size, brand, and model for many years.

    Okay, but how _old_ are your shoes? If you're working out several
    times a week, you should be replacing the shoes at least every six
    months. The supportive and cushioning nature of the _inside_ of an
    athletic shoe wears out long before the exterior looks rough.

    Whenever my feet or shins start to complain, I know it's high time for
    shoe replacement. The symptoms always go away as soon as I switch to
    new shoes.

    --
    Denise denise dot howard at comcast dot net
    ACE and AFAA certified fitness instructor
    AFAA step and kickboxing certified

  4. Denise Howard said:

    --
    Denise denise dot howard at comcast dot net
    ACE and AFAA certified fitness instructor
    AFAA step and kickboxing certified

    I "did" her...

  5. On Thu, 30 Mar 2006 16:22:22 GMT, Puddin' Man <[email hidden]>

    Quoted message said:

    No offence, but there's probably a handful of
    folks here on alt.support.chronic-pain that'd be happy as
    larks if they could -walk- normally for 5 or 10 minutes ...

    So if you can walk normally for more than 10 minutes, you're not
    allowed to post messages to alt.support.chronic-pain?

    *** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
    *** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***

  6. "Denise Howard" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Jack

    Quoted message said:

    4) Bad shoes.
    NO. Same size, brand, and model for many years.

    Okay, but how _old_ are your shoes? If you're working out several
    times a week, you should be replacing the shoes at least every six
    months. The supportive and cushioning nature of the _inside_ of an
    athletic shoe wears out long before the exterior looks rough.

    Whenever my feet or shins start to complain, I know it's high time for
    shoe replacement. The symptoms always go away as soon as I switch to
    new shoes.

    Is there any way to tell your shoes need to be replaced *before* you start
    experiencing the pain, or should I just go with the six-month thing as a
    good rule of thumb? I've been running with my current shoes for about seven
    or eight months now, and they're still going strong.

  7. Atypical case........typical whining.

  8. In article <[email hidden]>, Karl Hungus

    Quoted message said:

    Is there any way to tell your shoes need to be replaced *before* you start
    experiencing the pain, or should I just go with the six-month thing as a
    good rule of thumb? I've been running with my current shoes for about seven
    or eight months now, and they're still going strong.

    Well your shoes aren't going to go kaput all at once. If you buy good
    shoes, they're perfect the first time you wear them and it's all
    downhill from there, but it's a gradual process. You will notice a
    change in how your feet/shins/whatever feel when it's about time to
    change shoes; if you experience pain, then you have let it go and
    ignored the progressive sensations for a long while.

    Or you can use the rule of thumb.

    --
    Denise denise dot howard at comcast dot net
    ACE and AFAA certified fitness instructor
    AFAA step and kickboxing certified

  9. Denise Howard said:

    Or you can use the rule of thumb.

    In your butt?

  10. Found this old article of mine when I googled "gontang" and "plantar
    fascia"

    Ozzie

    Some Folklore on Understanding and Preventing Injury to the
    Plantar Fascia
    c.2000 Austin "Ozzie" Gontang, Ph.D.

    Dedicated to Doug, Mike, Denny, Robert and You Friends who
    continue to question the answers of answered questions and
    unquestioned beliefs.

    1. The Stirrup Muscles (Peroneus and the Posterior Tibialis)
    Are There to Protect the Plantar Fascia

    When the peroneus longus and medius on the outside of the
    lower leg and the posterior tibialis along the inside of the
    lower leg, behind the shin bone become weakened or
    chronically tight, these muscles, often called the stirrup
    muscles since they invert and evert the foot, don't act as
    they should. This problem with these muscles can allow the
    plantar fascia-which is suppose to hold the arch of the foot
    in place-to take the pressure because the stirrup muscles
    aren't working.

    This is one reason some coaches have runners balance on one
    foot on a two by four or perpendicular to a step and bending
    the knee a inch or two. This is the reason you see all the
    balance boards and balance tubes being advertised.

    Some coaches won't have their students even think of doing
    speed training until they can balance on one foot with no
    vibrations or trembling of the ankle.

    Other coaches have the individual lift off the heels about
    an inch and balance on the ball of the big toe and the
    next two toes. They then while keeping the body erect bend
    the knees and lower themselves as far as comfortably able
    and then back up. They do several repetitions. Gradually
    they are able to balance as they go all the way down and
    then back up.

    The plantar fascia is taking the slack when the stirrup
    muscles are not working correctly and properly.

    The above is folklore. If it works for you, use it. If it
    doesn't work, then give it neither energy or added thought
    just find someone who makes sense and whose folklore works
    for you....and use it. Or create your own and share it on
    rec.running to see it stands the test of being questioned.

    2. Some Folklore to Relieve the Pain in the Arch

    Next, I would get a piece of water hose about 2 feet long.
    While standing with your feet straight ahead i.e. | | and
    not \/ easily move from one foot to the other with the hose
    ---|--|---- in the middle of the arch. Step on it so as to
    not create pain but to see how tender the arch/plantar
    fascia is.

    Start behind the ball of the foot and stepping from foot to
    foot, work down slowly so that foot starting behind the ball
    while stepping on the hose works its way down so that the
    foot is stepping on the hose just in front of the heel

    With socks on, stand on a stair with the balls of the feet
    over the edge. (you are facing down stairs) Slowly commence
    wiggling the toes and slide one foot slowly down the edge of
    the step. As the foot slides down the edge of the step you
    can put more pressure on the outside of the arch but just
    enough to feel the tightness...and NOT to create any pain.

    As the arch slides down the edge of the step, the toes will
    be pointed toward the step below at a 45 to 60 degree angle.

    |
    -\ Side view of the foot sliding down the edge of the step.

    These are two pieces of folklore that have created numerous
    miracle cures from extreme tightness and pain.

    Let us know if they are of help to you.

    If you check out http://www.mindfulness.com/of1.asp the same
    sliding downward motion of the calf can help loosen the calf
    muscles and alleviate the pain experienced by many in the
    Achilles Tendon.

    Remember this is GAPO folklore. If it works for you use it.
    If it doesn't work, or doesn't make sense, then don't give
    my folklore any energy, time or consideration. Find someone
    that makes sense and whose folklore works for you...when
    you use it.

    3. Some Exercises to Strengthen the Stirrup Muscles and
    Protect the Plantar Fascia

    Here's an exercise to help work these muscles Posterior
    Tibialis and Peroneus (stirrup muscles) which help stabilize
    the ankle and are suppose to be working so that the plantar
    fascia doesn't have to take any excessive strain.

    Stand with feet about four inches apart so that the feet are
    || and not \/.

    Bend knees and place left foot so it is straight ahead and
    left heel is about 6 to 10 inches ahead of the right
    toe...and still maintaining the four inches apart.
    | =left foot

    ....| =rt. foot

    Allow your legs to straighten and shift weight so that
    weight is between the two feet.

    Lift onto the balls of the feet so that the heels are off
    the ground three-quarters of an inch. While on the balls of
    the feet, you should be able to wiggle your toes to prove
    you're balanced on the ball of the foot. (That leaning
    forward so that the toes have to dig in can be one of the
    causes of hammer toes.)

    Keep your body erect, hands resting at the sides of the
    body, eyes ahead and on the horizon, and head erect.

    Keeping your body erect and balanced between the two feet,
    slowly lower the body as far as comfortable. At first you
    may need to touch the back of a chair, or wall, or table
    with one hand to maintain balance. At first you may not be
    able to go down very far because of tightness in the knees.

    Do 10 bends with the left foot forward and then 10 bends (as
    far down so that there is no knee strain) with the right
    foot forward.

    Do twice a day.

    Each day add another single bend of the knees until you get
    to twenty. Great little exercise while waiting in lines.

    As you get better you'll find that you can go down deeper
    and that also you don't wobble as much.

    The muscles you're using are the two muscle groups which
    keep you from overpronating: the peroneus and the
    posterior tibialis. You are also working the shin and calf
    plus the bending of the knees with the body erect allows
    for the elasticity of the knee joints and the flexibility
    of the thighs.

    Here's a reference book for your running library that you
    will use for years to come. If you want to purchase a copy
    of one of the books that I still use as a guide to answering
    questions and understanding running problems, send $20 which
    covers the price of the book and shipping/handling.

    The book is: Hidden Causes of Injury, Prevention and
    Correction, for Running Athletes and Joggers
    c. John Jesse, 1977.

    Make out the $20 check or money order to: IAM or Int'l
    Assoc. of Marathoners
    d/o Ozzie Gontang 2903 29th Street San Diego, CA 92104

    John Jesse was a team mate at USC with Payton Jordon who was
    the US Olympic head track and field coach in 1968. John
    wrote this book for you and me, so that we could understand
    through popular language, and with scientific and technical
    language kept to a minimum but using diagrams, illustrations
    or short glossaries so we the laymen could understand should
    we want to delve deeper.

    Excerpt from the Intro:

    "Three of the four hidden factors (of injury) - muscular
    imbalance, postural faults, and foot faults - are so common
    among the general population that it is doubtful whether any
    young athlete enters the field of athletic competition
    without being affected to a lesser or greater degree by one
    or more of them."

    "The writer (John Jesse) believes a more detailed and
    complete discussion of these factors and of the methods of
    correcting them or preventing their further development will
    enable the coach, trainer, and athlete to cope with them
    early in the young athlete's career. It will enable the
    athlete to reduce to a minimum the number of roadblocks and
    setbacks he(she) suffers during training and in pursuit of
    his(her) goals."

    "The information presented here should be of great value to
    the several million physical fitness joggers and runners in
    the population, because the book is aimed at providing
    understandable answers to all injuries that interrupt their
    progress toward attainment of an increased level of
    cardiovascular fitness, or that interfere with the
    psychological satisfactions obtained from engaging in such
    activities."

    "The human body supports itself against gravity, segment
    upon segment, relying on the muscles and ligaments that
    cross the joints, along with postural reflexes, to
    maintain an erect position and proper body alignment.
    Hence, there has to be a total or "holistic" approach to
    prevention and to correction of the hidden factors
    mentioned above. The reader must integrate his/her
    thinking to a total body concept."

    In health and on the run, Ozzie Gontang Director, San Diego
    Marathon Clinic, est. 1975 Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-
    faq/ Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.html

  11. Atypical case doesn't change the fact that the fascia and ligaments are
    too tight.

    To really know and not guess, find a great podiatrist that has an ultra
    sound machine that lets him/examine soft tissues, and they will see what
    really is the story. Otherwise it's 90% voodoo.

    I've had it come and go over the years. I remember my internist had a
    bone scan, and sure enough I had a stress fracture on my heel from the
    tension. Now I see a great podiatrist that really examines me internally.

  12. PSYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYCHO!

    Beach Runner said:


    Atypical case doesn't change the fact that the fascia and ligaments are
    too tight.

    To really know and not guess, find a great podiatrist that has an ultra
    sound machine that lets him/examine soft tissues, and they will see what
    really is the story. Otherwise it's 90% voodoo.

    I've had it come and go over the years. I remember my internist had a
    bone scan, and sure enough I had a stress fracture on my heel from the
    tension. Now I see a great podiatrist that really examines me internally.

  13. I was given injections of lidocaine and steroids in the plantar fascia and had orthotics made for me. Until my orthotics were completed, I had taping every other day.

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