Welsh 3K Route, it's all planned - comments please

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

4. Finally, is there an alternative route up Crib Goch in case of bad
weather?

Is Crib Goch absolutely necessary? There are many ways to the top of Yr
Wyddfa that avoid it, the nearest being the PYG track. Mind, in bad
weather even that can be dodgy towards the top where it suddenly becomes
very exposed.
--
To reply see 'from' in headers; lose the domain, and insert dots and @
where common sense dictates.

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

You don't need to backtrack off the top of Elidir Fawr & come down the
valley, there's an obvious path straight SSW off the top to Nant Peris.

You can go straight up to Clogwyn Station through Cwm Glas Bach from
the Llanberis road.

You can go up a gully on the west side of Tryfan which comes out close
to the top to avoid scrambling up the North Ridge.

These seem to be the accepted quickest routes going south to north.

Can't comment on your route choice getting up onto the Carneddau. I
went down to Aber Falls car park which was more to give my girlfriend
somewhere interesting to wait for me than for speed.

Fran said:

[email hidden] said...

Quoted message said:

4. Finally, is there an alternative route up Crib Goch in case of bad
weather?

Is Crib Goch absolutely necessary?

Absolutely, it's height is over 3000 feet so it has to be done.

Quoted message said:

There are many ways to the top of Yr
Wyddfa that avoid it, the nearest being the PYG track. Mind, in bad
weather even that can be dodgy towards the top where it suddenly becomes
very exposed.

AndyP said:

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

You don't need to backtrack off the top of Elidir Fawr & come down the
valley, there's an obvious path straight SSW off the top to Nant Peris.

Thanks for that. I'm going down to Wales in a couple weeks and I'm
going to walk Leg 2 as a training walk. I'll look out for that path
and review the track log recorded on my GPS when I get back.

Quoted message said:

You can go straight up to Clogwyn Station through Cwm Glas Bach from
the Llanberis road.

When I did the event following a ML last year, we did south to north,
and after completing the snowdon massif we turned right (NE) at clogwyn
station down to nant peris, I'm assuming this is the route you mean to
take up?

Quoted message said:

You can go up a gully on the west side of Tryfan which comes out close
to the top to avoid scrambling up the North Ridge.

This is gonna sound dumb, probably, can you tell me what a gully is?!
🙂 I'm still not greatly familiar with the terminology. I should
create me a mountain glossary.

Quoted message said:

These seem to be the accepted quickest routes going south to north.

Can't comment on your route choice getting up onto the Carneddau. I
went down to Aber Falls car park which was more to give my girlfriend
somewhere interesting to wait for me than for speed.

AndyP said:

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

Well I've been toying with some options myself, so I'm interested to see
your route.

Quoted message said:

You don't need to backtrack off the top of Elidir Fawr & come down the
valley, there's an obvious path straight SSW off the top to Nant Peris.

That's what I thought too.

Quoted message said:

You can go straight up to Clogwyn Station through Cwm Glas Bach from
the Llanberis road.

Aha, thanks for that clue. Thereby avoiding the drive up the pass which
is surely cheating?

Quoted message said:

You can go up a gully on the west side of Tryfan which comes out close
to the top to avoid scrambling up the North Ridge.

I would take the descent you have shown from Pen yr ole Wen then start
up Tryfan by Milestone Buttress up the North Ridge (it's not THAT
scrambly and most is avoidable if you want to - oh and you are going to
be doing Crib Goch so....)

Are you going over Bristly Ridge or up the side?

Roy.

Roy said:

AndyP said:

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

Well I've been toying with some options myself, so I'm interested to see
your route.

It'll be good to swap tips in route planning if you have or find out
any ...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You don't need to backtrack off the top of Elidir Fawr & come down the
valley, there's an obvious path straight SSW off the top to Nant Peris.

That's what I thought too.

Me too from what I could remember by following the ML from south to
north last year, but when I reviewed the map I couldn't see any obvious
path apart from the one that I've marked out. But like I say when I go
down in two weeks I'll be recording a track log in my GPS so I'll
update the route accordingly afterward.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can go straight up to Clogwyn Station through Cwm Glas Bach from
the Llanberis road.

Aha, thanks for that clue.

We descended down that route after completing the snowdon massif last
year, there's definately no obvious path so it'll just be case of
finding the best way up there.

Quoted message said:

Thereby avoiding the drive up the pass which
is surely cheating?

Not sure if it's cheating?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You can go up a gully on the west side of Tryfan which comes out close
to the top to avoid scrambling up the North Ridge.

I would take the descent you have shown from Pen yr ole Wen then start
up Tryfan by Milestone Buttress up the North Ridge (it's not THAT
scrambly and most is avoidable if you want to - oh and you are going to
be doing Crib Goch so....)

I've never done north ridge yet but again in the training walk I'll be
doing in two weeks I will be so I'll be able to ascertain what it will
be like on the actual 3k day.

Quoted message said:

Are you going over Bristly Ridge or up the side?

Depends on the weather conditions, I've marked the east side of bristly
ridge on the map, but if we feel like it on the day we'll take bristly
itself.

Quoted message said:

Roy.

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

Some comments I'm particularly looking for are:

1. Are there any obvious mistakes that I have made with the route
planning?

Quoted message said:

FYI I've planned it with two cars, before starting we'll drop car 1
near the foot of Elidir Fawr then drive car 2 to the starting point.
We'll use car 1 to transport us the few KM's to the start of the third
leg (and when finishing to go collect car 2 from the starting point).

I thought you had to walk or run over all the 3000's summit to summit
without using alternative transport in between, what's this about
using a car between legs two and three?
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Dundonald" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I did the welsh 3k's for the first time last year as a charity event
for my employers, but we were led by professional MLs. Visibility was
poor and to be honest toward the end I was tired so didn't really
bother looking at where I was going/where I had been. I just walked
until the end following the ML along with the rest of the group. This
year I want to do the welsh 3k's again, planning and navigating myself.
I will be walking with a few other friends with similar experience as
me.

Quoted message said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Quoted message said:

Can you please let me have any comments?

Quoted message said:

Some comments I'm particularly looking for are:

Quoted message said:

1. Are there any obvious mistakes that I have made with the route
planning?

I think you have got the wrong idea about the Welsh 3000s. It is a
continuous walk. Using a car to eliminate a tedious road section and a
considerable amount of ascent is cheating.

Quoted message said:

2. I've chosen to park a car using the car park at Bwlch y Ddeufaen as
the starting point, and ascending up to Drum via Drosgl's north eastern
ridge. Have I marked this route correctly? I've read that this ascent
is the quickest up and I ask because there's no defined path on the map
up that way.

We used to start at the road head from Aber (676716) but the map
suggests that parking there may no longer be possible. It is certainly
an easer drive than that to your preferred parking place. There should
be a path all the way to Drum but not quite as you have marked. Follow
the Roman Road to the col and then in general follow the ridge. ISTR (I
was in mist when I was there a couple of years ago) that on the approach
to Drum the main drag leaves the crest of the ridge and heads for the
prominent track coming in from the North. That would probably save you a
few feet of ascent.

Your traverse line back from Yr Elen seems a bit high. Back in the 70s
there was no path on the ground but by now there is surely bound to be.

Quoted message said:

3. I've marked descent from Pen yr Ole Wen down it's east ridge, again
not sure of the best way to mark it as there's no defined path on the
map, at least not until Ffynnon Lloer is reached. After which I follow
the defined path to the main road through Tal y Llyn. But should I
choose the 'quicker' more direct southern face of Pen yr Ole Wen to
descend? I'm not sure, and reasons are basically figuring out the next
best starting point to ascend Tryfan, given that we'll be on foot
walking to whatever starting point we choose... I have marked
alternative routes in orange down the south face of Pen yr Ole Wen and
consequently up to Tryfan via Llyn Bochllwyd. Any suggestions? Given
that I'm doing the 3k's in a day, I'm simply looking for the quickest
ascent up tryfan.

There is an easy path down the east ridge of Pen yr Ole Wen. The steep
descent direct to the west end of Llyn Ogwen is a knee wrecker which you
would be well advised to avoid. It killed me off on my first attempt
back in 1963 and in any case does not lead to a quick route up Tryfan.
That time I opted for the direct route across the bundu and up the West
Gully (which finished me off) rather than the roundabout route via
Tryfans south ridge.

There is no need to walk along the road from Glen Dana to The Milestone.
The North Ridge of Tryfan is better ascended by crossing the road
directly and following your nose. Take care to avoid diverting onto
heather Terrace. I don't rate the West Gully as a good way up or down
although ISTR that one of the record breakers back in the 70s claiming
to have used that route and to have taken a mere 13 minutes to descend
to the road from the summit of Tryfan.

As already pointed out there is no need to backtrack from the summit of
Elidir Fawr. Just keep going, there is probably a path by now but the
hillside was passable even when there wasn't. Towards the bottom of the
descent a minor road gives an alternative route to Nant Peris which will
save you time if you are not cheating.

Quoted message said:

4. Finally, is there an alternative route up Crib Goch in case of bad
weather?

Quoted message said:

FYI I've planned it with two cars, before starting we'll drop car 1
near the foot of Elidir Fawr then drive car 2 to the starting point.
We'll use car 1 to transport us the few KM's to the start of the third
leg (and when finishing to go collect car 2 from the starting point).

That's cheating. The Welsh 3000s is a continuous walk, not a drive.

I can't be much help if you want to finish on Snowdon. We always did the
start/finish on Crib Goch variation and went up/descended via the steep
route below Cloggy Station. IIRC the walk pioneer, Thomas (I bought a
mountain) Firbank used the train to get to the start and took a high
level line across the flank of the Glyders to get from Pen y Pass to
Elidir Fawr but then at least some of that route was part of his farm. I
never managed to find his line.

--
Roger Chapman

Phil Cook wrote:
"I thought you had to walk or run over all the 3000's summit to summit
without using alternative transport in between, what's this about
using a car between legs two and three? "

And within 24 hours when I was a lad;-) Ha how the times have
changed;-)

JS

Roger said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from "Dundonald" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

I can't be much help if you want to finish on Snowdon. We always did the
start/finish on Crib Goch variation and went up/descended via the steep
route below Cloggy Station. IIRC the walk pioneer, Thomas (I bought a
mountain) Firbank used the train to get to the start and took a high
level line across the flank of the Glyders to get from Pen y Pass to
Elidir Fawr but then at least some of that route was part of his farm. I
never managed to find his line.

Yes, I've been wondering about going up behind Pen y Pass YH keeping as
low as possible whilst getting onto a sensible route for Elidir Fawr. I
would involve a long out and back but without the tedious slog (and
height loss) of Nant Peris. You could possibly also stash your sack
somewhere too.

Mind you, given the thousands of feet which have trodden the Welsh
3000s, I'm sure there nust be a definitive route by now.

Roy.

Phil Cook said:

Dundonald said:

I've planned the welsh 3k route and have split it up in to 3 legs. You
can see the routes here http://www.dundonsoft.com/welsh3k . I will be
performing the route north to south starting at foel fras finishing at
snowdon.

Can you please let me have any comments?

Some comments I'm particularly looking for are:

1. Are there any obvious mistakes that I have made with the route
planning?

Quoted message said:

FYI I've planned it with two cars, before starting we'll drop car 1
near the foot of Elidir Fawr then drive car 2 to the starting point.
We'll use car 1 to transport us the few KM's to the start of the third
leg (and when finishing to go collect car 2 from the starting point).

I thought you had to walk or run over all the 3000's summit to summit
without using alternative transport in between, what's this about
using a car between legs two and three?

🙂 Ok as one who's not up with the traditions of the Welsh 3K's I'll
take that on board and remove the car travel between legs 2 and 3.

Dundonald said:

Phil Cook wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I thought you had to walk or run over all the 3000's summit to summit
without using alternative transport in between, what's this about
using a car between legs two and three?

🙂 Ok as one who's not up with the traditions of the Welsh 3K's I'll
take that on board and remove the car travel between legs 2 and 3.

Of course if you're not too bothered about a "bona fide" Welsh 3000s
trip it doesn't matter how you do it. If you do ditch the car journey
(which I think you should) then the ascent to Clogwyn Station mentioned
earlier becomes attractive, heading for Snowdon first before finishing
on Crib Goch.

Roy.

"Dundonald" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

3. I've marked descent from Pen yr Ole Wen down it's east ridge, again
not sure of the best way to mark it as there's no defined path on the
map, at least not until Ffynnon Lloer is reached. After which I follow
the defined path to the main road through Tal y Llyn. But should I
choose the 'quicker' more direct southern face of Pen yr Ole Wen to
descend? I'm not sure, and reasons are basically figuring out the next
best starting point to ascend Tryfan, given that we'll be on foot
walking to whatever starting point we choose... I have marked
alternative routes in orange down the south face of Pen yr Ole Wen and
consequently up to Tryfan via Llyn Bochllwyd. Any suggestions? Given
that I'm doing the 3k's in a day, I'm simply looking for the quickest
ascent up tryfan.

I am not sure how viable the route down off Carneddau is. The walking route
I recall pretty much heads down over pen yr ole wen and down the nose of the
mountain(pretty much the orange route but it is very steep and scree-covered
and indistinct in places). I do seem to remember some quite bad cliffs
along the top where you have marked the path so I'd suggest just making sure
that you have a way down to the end of the first leg.

Rob

The message <[email hidden]>
from Roy <x@y> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can't be much help if you want to finish on Snowdon. We always did the
start/finish on Crib Goch variation and went up/descended via the steep
route below Cloggy Station. IIRC the walk pioneer, Thomas (I bought a
mountain) Firbank used the train to get to the start and took a high
level line across the flank of the Glyders to get from Pen y Pass to
Elidir Fawr but then at least some of that route was part of his farm. I
never managed to find his line.

Quoted message said:

Yes, I've been wondering about going up behind Pen y Pass YH keeping as
low as possible whilst getting onto a sensible route for Elidir Fawr. I
would involve a long out and back but without the tedious slog (and
height loss) of Nant Peris. You could possibly also stash your sack
somewhere too.

The modern 1:25000 gives more detail than the First Series available in
my day and looking at that I would have said keeping low wouldn't be the
best bet. There is a path (not a PROW) heading up Glyder Fawr which
could be followed until about 600m at which point it should be possible
to take a relatively level line round the hillside passing below the
crags of Esgair Felen (which appear from the map as the biggest hazard
on the route) at about 650m.

Quoted message said:

Mind you, given the thousands of feet which have trodden the Welsh
3000s, I'm sure there nust be a definitive route by now.

Most seem to go much the same way but I suspect that several variations
are well used. I think some have found a viable way up onto Crib Goch
from Nant Peris but I have yet to meet anyone claiming to have used
Firbanks route.

--
Roger Chapman

Roger said:

The modern 1:25000 gives more detail than the First Series available in
my day and looking at that I would have said keeping low wouldn't be the
best bet. There is a path (not a PROW) heading up Glyder Fawr which
could be followed until about 600m at which point it should be possible
to take a relatively level line round the hillside passing below the
crags of Esgair Felen (which appear from the map as the biggest hazard
on the route) at about 650m.

That's what I meant by keeping low. If you go u to the top of Esgair
Felen you then have to loose height again.

Roy.

As I am doing so little walking these days I thought I would share with
you one of my boring reminiscences from my early days as an independent
hill walker. Earlier in this thread I referred briefly to my first
attempt at the Welsh 3000s in 1963.

It was a club meet and for once the weather was ideal. I was still a
callow teenager at the time and with the arrogance of youth elected to
set off with the hard men rather than get up at some ungodly hour to go
with the plodders. It was to be a North to South traverse and we parked
just through the gate at the end of the tarmac road above Aber.

The intention had been to set off from Foel-fras at 8 am and there was
very little time so the hard men set a cracking pace along the track up
the valley which turned into calf torture on the steep slope at the head
of the valley but we made it, just, and set off almost without respite.
Not having been on that end of the Carneddau before I deemed it
expedient to keep up which proved a struggle but I was still with them
when we arrived at the tea shack at the West end of Llyn Ogwen a mere
two and a half hours later but by then I was so shattered that a pint of
tea did little to revive me.

However we had no support party so I went through the motions of
carrying on but had to persuade one of the hard men who was hanging back
out of a sense of responsibility that he shouldn’t prejudice his own
chances to shepherd me and after a few minutes I was on my own making
slow progress over the bundu towards Tryfans West gully. It took me 90
minutes to crawl up Tryfan after which I genuinely gave up and decided
to take things easy but I still had to get back to the campsite under my
own steam which meant that I was still on course until the summit of
Glyder Fach.

We were wild camping by Llyn Cwmffynnon and the final section was
trackless and not easy going at the best of times. I was resting longer
than I was moving and didn’t reach camp until late afternoon. I was the
first one back and as drinking time approached was still the only one in
camp. We had agreed previously to drink in the PYG if time permitted so
I dutifully ignored the much closer (and emptier) delights of the
Gorphwysfa Hotel and staggered down the road to the PYG for a pint or
two of their even fouler beer. It was a lonely evening in the Everest
room surrounded by drunks loudly singing what are euphemistically known
as rugby club songs as none of the rest made it to that pub. Those who
finished took the precaution of tanking up at the Summit Hotel and
weren’t back till very late. I am not sure what happened to the several
others who also fell by the wayside but they didn’t make it to the PYG.

Nine months latter I severely mangled my right ankle in a car crash and
it was 1968 before I tried the 3000s again, and failed again. This time
on a South to North traverse on which I managed to take four hours to
get from the Nant Peris to the summit of Elidir Fawr. That time I took
to Heather Terrace to finish at Glen Dana and didn’t bother about Tryfan
summit or the Carneddau but I had completed the 3000s, albeit over 5
years rather than the obligatory 24 hours.

--
Roger Chapman

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

As I am doing so little walking these days I thought I would share with
you one of my boring reminiscences from my early days as an independent
hill walker. Earlier in this thread I referred briefly to my first
attempt at the Welsh 3000s in 1963.

Where did you go on your visit to Glyntawe, or haven't you been yet this
year?
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk

The message <[email hidden]>
from "W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As I am doing so little walking these days I thought I would share with
you one of my boring reminiscences from my early days as an independent
hill walker. Earlier in this thread I referred briefly to my first
attempt at the Welsh 3000s in 1963.

Quoted message said:

Where did you go on your visit to Glyntawe, or haven't you been yet this
year?

The weekend the clocks went forward. The same weekend of Phils proposed
Plod round The Peak. Did that come off?

My trip was more of a social occasion (short walks, long dinners) given
the evil weather but for what it's worth (not a lot) I did get in a bit
of walking.

I interrupted the trip down for 2 of Marilyns lesser bumps near Builth
Wells, one wet, one dry and neither memorable.

On Saturday Pete (the only other member of the party up for a high level
walk) and I walked back through the wood near the Usk reservoir and over
Fan Foel, Sir Brycheiniog and Fan Hir. The mist was down and it rained
for all but the first few minutes of the walk. We very nearly decided to
avoid the ridge but a casual conversation about wimpish walkers provided
the impetus for the steep ascent up Fan Foel. Pete, who is a few years
older than myself has always been a rush and rest type of walker so I am
never sure he is just waiting for me or having a rest unless I happen to
be out in front when he stops. Pete was testing out his recently fitted
pacemaker (it hasn't slowed him down) and had decided that he would do
the last 500 feet of ascent in 15 minutes and it wasn't till the angle
eased that I got in front and found that the large footprints I had seen
on the way up weren't his but those of some other idiot who was out
before us. We saw no one that day and the only other fresh footprints
were of a couple ascending Fan Hir.

On Sunday Pete had to depart early for a family birthday so I was on my
own. The cloud was still down but it was not at that time raining so I
declined the offer of a lift down the valley for the chance to wander
over a cloud covered Cribarth and the intervening bundu between there
and base on the grounds that if I stuck to ground I knew well I wouldn't
need to be consulting the comic every five minutes (or as it turned out
at all) for the well worn attractions (?) of the local range.

I was reasonably optimistic as I set out that Sunday would be the better
day and that optimism survived the first encounter with a stiff breeze
at the top of the first field. Above the intake wall I inspected the
ford by the waterfalls on the Nant Tawe Fechan but with the stepping
stones ankle deep in water I decided to give Fan Hir a miss and
continued on the faint path towards Llyn Y fan Fawr. I hadn't gone very
far when I looked up and was surprised to see another walking coming out
of the mist towards me. He quizzed me about the state of the ford but
didn't take my advice to cross the stream well above the ford. Within
the next 100 yards I went from being comfortable in shirtsleeves in the
breeze to togged up in Jacket and Dachsteins in a cold gale. It really
was an abrupt (and unwelcome) transition.

At Llyn y Fan Fawr I had just stopped to put my overtrousers on to
protect my knees from the cold wind when it started to rain and the rain
was to continue without respite for the rest of the day. The steep path
up from the lake have suffered of late despite (or perhaps because of)
the work recently done on it. It really was quite unpleasant up on the
ridge and I continued only until I was certain I was going to do more
than we had the previous day. Turning point was Picws Du and I quickly
retreated to Bwlch Blaen-Twrch and the track down to Pant y Bwlch. For a
short time at least I was out of the wind. I returned round the base of
Fan Foel and the high level traverse path that comes out above Llyn y
fan Fawr. I found the start of the path more by luck than judgement and
lost it at least once on the way round. By the time I reached the lake I
was beginning to wonder where it had gone. It did not help that until I
was nearly past it I thought that the dim surface below was just a
rather denser bit of mist.

My GPS had a curious fault that day. At the point I turned back I
checked to see what I had done and it was recording about 2500 feet of
ascent which was probably about right but when I checked it again back
at base the total ascent had risen to nearly 4500 feet when it should
have been no more than 3000 at most. The downloaded track shows no such
anomaly.

On neither day did I stop for a bite to eat. The weather just wasn't
kind enough.

--
Roger Chapman

In article <[email hidden]>, Roger
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

The message <[email hidden]>
from "W. D. Grey" <[email hidden]> contains these words:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

As I am doing so little walking these days I thought I would share with
you one of my boring reminiscences from my early days as an independent
hill walker. Earlier in this thread I referred briefly to my first
attempt at the Welsh 3000s in 1963.

Quoted message said:

Where did you go on your visit to Glyntawe, or haven't you been yet this
year?

The weekend the clocks went forward. The same weekend of Phils proposed
Plod round The Peak. Did that come off?

My trip was more of a social occasion (short walks, long dinners) given
the evil weather but for what it's worth (not a lot) I did get in a bit
of walking.

I interrupted the trip down for 2 of Marilyns lesser bumps near Builth
Wells, one wet, one dry and neither memorable.

On Saturday Pete (the only other member of the party up for a high level
walk) and I walked back through the wood near the Usk reservoir and over
Fan Foel, Sir Brycheiniog and Fan Hir. The mist was down and it rained
for all but the first few minutes of the walk. We very nearly decided to
avoid the ridge but a casual conversation about wimpish walkers provided
the impetus for the steep ascent up Fan Foel. Pete, who is a few years
older than myself has always been a rush and rest type of walker so I am
never sure he is just waiting for me or having a rest unless I happen to
be out in front when he stops. Pete was testing out his recently fitted
pacemaker (it hasn't slowed him down) and had decided that he would do
the last 500 feet of ascent in 15 minutes and it wasn't till the angle
eased that I got in front and found that the large footprints I had seen
on the way up weren't his but those of some other idiot who was out
before us. We saw no one that day and the only other fresh footprints
were of a couple ascending Fan Hir.

On Sunday Pete had to depart early for a family birthday so I was on my
own. The cloud was still down but it was not at that time raining so I
declined the offer of a lift down the valley for the chance to wander
over a cloud covered Cribarth and the intervening bundu between there
and base on the grounds that if I stuck to ground I knew well I wouldn't
need to be consulting the comic every five minutes (or as it turned out
at all) for the well worn attractions (?) of the local range.

I was reasonably optimistic as I set out that Sunday would be the better
day and that optimism survived the first encounter with a stiff breeze
at the top of the first field. Above the intake wall I inspected the
ford by the waterfalls on the Nant Tawe Fechan but with the stepping
stones ankle deep in water I decided to give Fan Hir a miss and
continued on the faint path towards Llyn Y fan Fawr. I hadn't gone very
far when I looked up and was surprised to see another walking coming out
of the mist towards me. He quizzed me about the state of the ford but
didn't take my advice to cross the stream well above the ford. Within
the next 100 yards I went from being comfortable in shirtsleeves in the
breeze to togged up in Jacket and Dachsteins in a cold gale. It really
was an abrupt (and unwelcome) transition.

At Llyn y Fan Fawr I had just stopped to put my overtrousers on to
protect my knees from the cold wind when it started to rain and the rain
was to continue without respite for the rest of the day. The steep path
up from the lake have suffered of late despite (or perhaps because of)
the work recently done on it. It really was quite unpleasant up on the
ridge and I continued only until I was certain I was going to do more
than we had the previous day. Turning point was Picws Du and I quickly
retreated to Bwlch Blaen-Twrch and the track down to Pant y Bwlch. For a
short time at least I was out of the wind. I returned round the base of
Fan Foel and the high level traverse path that comes out above Llyn y
fan Fawr. I found the start of the path more by luck than judgement and
lost it at least once on the way round. By the time I reached the lake I
was beginning to wonder where it had gone. It did not help that until I
was nearly past it I thought that the dim surface below was just a
rather denser bit of mist.

My GPS had a curious fault that day. At the point I turned back I
checked to see what I had done and it was recording about 2500 feet of
ascent which was probably about right but when I checked it again back
at base the total ascent had risen to nearly 4500 feet when it should
have been no more than 3000 at most. The downloaded track shows no such
anomaly.

On neither day did I stop for a bite to eat. The weather just wasn't
kind enough.

Thanks Roger for a very thorough TR. You had quite a busy weekend.
Llyn-y-Fan fawr and the area around it can be brutal in bad weather.
Judith and I experienced the hills - or at least the base of the hills
in the most stormy weather when we were there about 18 months ago. I
have never seen Llyn-y-Fan Fawr looking so evil. Just prior to exped 14
I think it was, I went to the lake to take way points for the late
arrivers and I was only about 20 yards from the lake before I actually
saw it as the mist was down. A very weird place in those conditions.

I trust your hosts were in good health.

All the best,
--
Bill Grey
http://www.billboy.co.uk