Cast-iron leaching

Lefty said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One griddle was
a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire brush (on
a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that now
always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED cast-iron, the
only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the fear may
have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare.

The research that said aluminum causes Alzheimer's used faked data.

Quoted message said:

I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that never
have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water rinse and
maybe a salt-scour.

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

Quoted message said:

Lefty

--Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos

Lefty said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One griddle was
a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire brush (on
a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that now
always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED cast-iron, the
only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the fear may
have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare. I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that never
have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water rinse and
maybe a salt-scour.

So just now I did an experiment. I took a small skillet that I rarely use
and has a minimum of seasoning left. The rim on the bottom had a few
bare-metal areas from where it had scraped on a burner, and a few flecks of
rust. I put a few drops of Muriatic (Hydrochloric) Acid there and it did
what was expected: a slight discoloration reaction to the surface oxidation
and a bit of fizz from the flecks of rust. Rinsed it clean and bright.

Then I put some acid inside the pan and let it sit for ten minutes. When I
rinsed it there was no effect on the seasoned surface: no discoloration, not
a mark. Then I put in some acid and heated it on the burner until the acid
had dried. I could see residue where the acid was, rinsed with hot water and
there was obvious damage to the seasoned surface there, I could tell there
was metal under it.

Then I did the same tests on an old well-seasoned large pan I use often. The
same results when cold, no effects; and when I heated it until the acid
dried and rinsed the residue, this time there was no breach of the seasoned
surface, and I couldn't tell there was ever any acid on it.

Straight Hydrochloric acid (the kind you etch concrete with) is considerably
more powerful than food acids, virtually exponential in reductive power. I
don't know if heating straight acid until it dries and leaves a residue
compares to any GOOD cooking (I had a housemate once who badly burnt my
skillet frying chicken while drunk -- I made him take it down to the metal
and season it again and again until it took a week to get it back to
perfection), but I suspect a tomato might have to sit there for a least a
week to even leave a spot. But I wouldn't cook any volatile sauces in the
first pan until I seasoned it a lot better.

As for the second skillet and others I always use, I don't think I will
worry about it. When you use one a lot you basically season another layer
whenever you dry it on a burner and coat it with a fresh film of oil before
you put it away. If volatile acid cannot penetrate in, I can't see how iron
molecules can penetrate out through what has cured to a polymer of some sort
during normal use -- we're not dealing with an atomic accelerator here. I
can't see where cooking anything non-acidic should be any cause for concern
at all.

My opinion of course, based on humble science. If I submit it for
publication in Omni I might get a slip saying "REJECTION FOR: [censored]", but
then they better not hang around my house looking to get some pancakes.

Lefty

You seem to think that iron leaching into the food is a bad thing.
That's how Grandma got much of the iron in her diet.

Best regards,
Bob

Food Snob said:

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

yup. Ain't nothing wrong with that. 🙂

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lefty

--Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos

--

saerah

http://anisaerah.blogspot.com/

email:
anisaerah at s b c global.net

Adam Bowman said:

I always wonder when someone brings up a point about Bush, and you
then bring up something that Clinton did, are you saying they are both
wrong? Because that's all it points out to me, places where they both
messed up. It doesn't negate the fact that Bush did wrong; was that
your intention?

That type of argument is like

"Bob shot someone"

"Yeah, but don't you remember when Don hit that guy with a bat?"

In article <[email hidden]>,

Food Snob said:

Lefty said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One griddle was
a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire brush (on
a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that now
always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED cast-iron, the
only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the fear may
have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare.

The research that said aluminum causes Alzheimer's used faked data.

I still won't cook with aluminum...
Ever since that time when I was inexperienced and covered a lasagna dish
that I had slaved over to take to a potluck with aluminum foil. :-(

I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
foil.

Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that never
have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water rinse and
maybe a salt-scour.

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

Spoken like the clueless twit you are. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lefty

--Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos

--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"Food Snob" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Lefty said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One griddle
was
a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire brush
(on
a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that now
always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED cast-iron,
the
only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the fear
may
have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare.

The research that said aluminum causes Alzheimer's used faked data.

Guess I don't see the leap from leaching for aluminum to causing
Alzheimer's. The worst that I've experienced is someone that makes
sourdough bread in an aluminum bread pan.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that
never
have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water rinse
and
maybe a salt-scour.

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

And using vegetable oil is better?

http://www.thescreamonline.com/essays/essays5-1/vegoil.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/dirty-secrets.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23733
http://www.healthywomen.org/resources/womenshealthinthenews/dbhealthnews/reheatingvegetableoilreleasestoxinstudy

It's been over a decade since I used cast iron skillets (seasoned, of
course). My recollection was that I didn't need to add oil to cook. Since
the pan was still seasoned after cooking, obviously almost none of the
"grease" (lard) made its way into the food.

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

<snip>
I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
foil.

Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.

Anything acidic will cause this. I make a potato dish with sour cream
that will do the same thing. What I have found works well is to cover
the top of the food with wax paper then seal with tin foil. This is
especially useful for those dishes you want to put into those foil pans
when taking an oven dish but don't want the container back. The funny
thing is I haven't noticed a problem with the foil trays only tin foil.

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

You seem to think that iron leaching into the food is a bad thing.
That's how Grandma got much of the iron in her diet.

Best regards,
Bob

Indeed... ;-)

Works for me.

If you don't have polycythemia or some iron overload disease, iron
leaching from the frying pans is good for you!
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

In article <[email hidden]>,

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

<snip>
I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
foil.

Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.

Anything acidic will cause this. I make a potato dish with sour cream
that will do the same thing. What I have found works well is to cover
the top of the food with wax paper then seal with tin foil. This is
especially useful for those dishes you want to put into those foil pans
when taking an oven dish but don't want the container back. The funny
thing is I haven't noticed a problem with the foil trays only tin foil.

I agree with that. :-) Most baking pans are aluminum but I've gotten
into the habit of using glass. And I have a monster #14 Griswold skillet
I use for roasting. It holds a #20 turkey.

I will use aluminum foil to bake with as long as acid won't come in
contact with it, but I cover cooked dishes with cling wrap now...
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson

"Lefty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One griddle

was

Quoted message said:

a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire brush

(on

Quoted message said:

a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that now
always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED cast-iron,

the

Quoted message said:

only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the fear

may

Quoted message said:

have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare. I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that never
have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water rinse

and

Quoted message said:

maybe a salt-scour.

So just now I did an experiment. I took a small skillet that I rarely use
and has a minimum of seasoning left. The rim on the bottom had a few
bare-metal areas from where it had scraped on a burner, and a few flecks

of

Quoted message said:

rust. I put a few drops of Muriatic (Hydrochloric) Acid there and it did
what was expected: a slight discoloration reaction to the surface

oxidation

Quoted message said:

and a bit of fizz from the flecks of rust. Rinsed it clean and bright.

Then I put some acid inside the pan and let it sit for ten minutes. When I
rinsed it there was no effect on the seasoned surface: no discoloration,

not

Quoted message said:

a mark. Then I put in some acid and heated it on the burner until the acid
had dried. I could see residue where the acid was, rinsed with hot water

and

Quoted message said:

there was obvious damage to the seasoned surface there, I could tell there
was metal under it.

Then I did the same tests on an old well-seasoned large pan I use often.

The

Quoted message said:

same results when cold, no effects; and when I heated it until the acid
dried and rinsed the residue, this time there was no breach of the

seasoned

Quoted message said:

surface, and I couldn't tell there was ever any acid on it.

Straight Hydrochloric acid (the kind you etch concrete with) is

considerably

Quoted message said:

more powerful than food acids, virtually exponential in reductive power. I
don't know if heating straight acid until it dries and leaves a residue
compares to any GOOD cooking (I had a housemate once who badly burnt my
skillet frying chicken while drunk -- I made him take it down to the metal
and season it again and again until it took a week to get it back to
perfection), but I suspect a tomato might have to sit there for a least a
week to even leave a spot. But I wouldn't cook any volatile sauces in the
first pan until I seasoned it a lot better.

As for the second skillet and others I always use, I don't think I will
worry about it. When you use one a lot you basically season another layer
whenever you dry it on a burner and coat it with a fresh film of oil

before

Quoted message said:

you put it away. If volatile acid cannot penetrate in, I can't see how

iron

Quoted message said:

molecules can penetrate out through what has cured to a polymer of some

sort

Quoted message said:

during normal use -- we're not dealing with an atomic accelerator here. I
can't see where cooking anything non-acidic should be any cause for

concern

Quoted message said:

at all.

My opinion of course, based on humble science. If I submit it for
publication in Omni I might get a slip saying "REJECTION FOR: [censored]", but
then they better not hang around my house looking to get some pancakes.

The iron that leaches into the food is highly assimilable. It's good for
you.

Paul

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

<snip>
I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
foil.

Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.

Anything acidic will cause this. I make a potato dish with sour cream
that will do the same thing. What I have found works well is to cover
the top of the food with wax paper then seal with tin foil. This is
especially useful for those dishes you want to put into those foil pans
when taking an oven dish but don't want the container back. The funny
thing is I haven't noticed a problem with the foil trays only tin foil.

I agree with that. :-) Most baking pans are aluminum but I've gotten
into the habit of using glass. And I have a monster #14 Griswold skillet
I use for roasting. It holds a #20 turkey.

I will use aluminum foil to bake with as long as acid won't come in
contact with it, but I cover cooked dishes with cling wrap now...

Om, I'm thinking more along the lines of the tossable foil pans suitable
for really messy dishes, freezing, or taking to potlucks. The good pans
have a way of disappearing at potlucks and even some family events so I
don't take bakeware/container I'm not prepared to lose. The larger
ziploc containers are good too as long as the dish doesn't have to into
the oven.

Quoted message said:

The iron that leaches into the food is highly assimilable. It's good for
you.

Paul

If you are anemic maybe. There are health warnings about iron for males.
Lefty
--
Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

Quoted message said:

RE: Aluminum: I wasn't referring to the Alzheimer's thing. I just meant who
would want aluminum to leach into the sauce? Which it would if you simmer
acid-food.
Lefty
--
Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

"OmManiPadmeOmelet" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

Food Snob said:

Lefty said:

I have used cast-iron skillets and griddles for many years. One

griddle was

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a rusty, pitted mess I was given for free then restored with wire

brush (on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a drill) and course sand-paper followed by thorough seasoning, that

now

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

always sits on my stove burner.

I have always doubted the leaching theory with WELL-SEASONED

cast-iron, the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

only way anyone in their right mind would cook with it. Some of the

fear may

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have accompanied leaching problems with aluminum pots and acids, but
aluminum is used bare.

The research that said aluminum causes Alzheimer's used faked data.

I still won't cook with aluminum...
Ever since that time when I was inexperienced and covered a lasagna dish
that I had slaved over to take to a potluck with aluminum foil. :-(

I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
foil.

Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I take pains to season mine well inside and out. I
have simmered lots of tomatoey and other acid-based concoctions that

never

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

have affected the seasoning layer and cleaned up with a hot water

rinse and

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

maybe a salt-scour.

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

Spoken like the clueless twit you are. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Lefty

--Bryan http://myspace.com/TheBonobos

--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack

Nicholson

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

And using vegetable oil is better?

http://www.thescreamonline.com/essays/essays5-1/vegoil.html
http://www.westonaprice.org/modernfood/dirty-secrets.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=23733

http://www.healthywomen.org/resources/womenshealthinthenews/dbhealthnews/reheatingvegetableoilreleasestoxinstudy

Quoted message said:

It's been over a decade since I used cast iron skillets (seasoned, of
course). My recollection was that I didn't need to add oil to cook.

Since

Quoted message said:

the pan was still seasoned after cooking, obviously almost none of the
"grease" (lard) made its way into the food.

The "curing" of the oils used in seasoning effectively makes a solid polymer
(hate to say plastic, but plastic is one of the polymers) which acts like a
natural Teflon. Those who would use Teflon ware because seasoning is
"primitive" haven't seen the latest research on the amounts of Teflon we all
have in our bloodstreams because over the years they said it was safe.

I would not trade my precious collection of cast-iron ware for any other at
any price. (Well, maybe a Ferrari.)
Lefty
--
Life is for learning
The worst I ever had was wonderful

"Lefty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The iron that leaches into the food is highly assimilable. It's good

for

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

you.

Paul

If you are anemic maybe. There are health warnings about iron for males.
Lefty

You can indeed get sick from excess iron in the body. You'd have to eat
half your skillet for this to happen. The amount of iron that gets into the
food depends on the acidity of the food. I don't like to use my cast iron
for acidic foods like tomatoes as it wears away the hard won seasoning.

I can't imagine anyone getting sick from cast iron. Aluminum though ...
that is quite debatable.

Paul

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

><snip>
>I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
>before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
>foil.
>
>Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.
>

Anything acidic will cause this. I make a potato dish with sour cream
that will do the same thing. What I have found works well is to cover
the top of the food with wax paper then seal with tin foil. This is
especially useful for those dishes you want to put into those foil pans
when taking an oven dish but don't want the container back. The funny
thing is I haven't noticed a problem with the foil trays only tin foil.

I agree with that. :-) Most baking pans are aluminum but I've gotten
into the habit of using glass. And I have a monster #14 Griswold skillet
I use for roasting. It holds a #20 turkey.

I will use aluminum foil to bake with as long as acid won't come in
contact with it, but I cover cooked dishes with cling wrap now...

Om, I'm thinking more along the lines of the tossable foil pans suitable
for really messy dishes, freezing, or taking to potlucks. The good pans
have a way of disappearing at potlucks and even some family events so I
don't take bakeware/container I'm not prepared to lose. The larger
ziploc containers are good too as long as the dish doesn't have to into
the oven.

I wonder if the disposable AL pans are lightly anodized since they
indeed don't seems to have the pitting issue. I've also noticed that the
pitting issue only seems to occur in cold storage which is odd since
chemical reactions happen faster at higher temperatures.

Pete C.

Quoted message said:

You can indeed get sick from excess iron in the body. You'd have to eat
half your skillet for this to happen. The amount of iron that gets into

the

Quoted message said:

food depends on the acidity of the food. I don't like to use my cast iron
for acidic foods like tomatoes as it wears away the hard won seasoning.

Did you read my post where I used straight Hydrochloric acid on my well
seasoned pan and it never even left a splotch on the surface of the
seasoning? The polymers that form good seasoning make it impervious except
to scortching. Man, you mean you wouldn't make chili in your cast iron?
Nothing simmers chili like cast iron.

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine anyone getting sick from cast iron. Aluminum though ...
that is quite debatable.

Quoted message said:

Paul

As for aluminum the acid visibly pits the aluminum so the aluminum must
affect the taste at least. Aluminum is good for cooking pasta.>

I did some checking online and it seems like there would probably be very
low toxic risk from the iron if it did leach, although your half-skillet
figure is a bit on the high side.

According to an online clinical source the USDA range is 6mg. for a baby to
30 mg. for a pregnant woman.

If you have half-skillets that weigh that little, I want to invest :-)
Lefty
--
"Even a child who is pure at heart
And does his homework neatly
May become a wolf when the wolfsbane blooms
And the moon is full, completely."

Quoted message said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

zxcvbob said:

You seem to think that iron leaching into the food is a bad thing.
That's how Grandma got much of the iron in her diet.

Best regards,
Bob

Indeed... ;-)

Works for me.

If you don't have polycythemia or some iron overload disease, iron
leaching from the frying pans is good for you!

Iron overload is a concern. Generally, menstruating women are the only
people who benefit from "+ iron" multivitamins. Others shouldn't use
them because too much iron isn't good for you. I don't know how much
gets leached from pans though.

Quoted message said:

--
Peace, Om.

--Bryan

Food Snob said:

The idea of cooking on grease buildup is a bit nauseating. That whole
"seasoned" cast iron thing seems like, primitive.

Wow, you must not have sex either, beings it's so "primitive" :-P

In article <[email hidden]>,

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

~patches~ said:

OmManiPadmeOmelet wrote:

><snip>
>I had to sit and scrape all the little bitter black spots off of it
>before I could serve it where the tomato had eaten little holes in the
>foil.
>
>Aluminum is too reactive IMHO and aluminum oxide tastes nasty.
>

Anything acidic will cause this. I make a potato dish with sour cream
that will do the same thing. What I have found works well is to cover
the top of the food with wax paper then seal with tin foil. This is
especially useful for those dishes you want to put into those foil pans
when taking an oven dish but don't want the container back. The funny
thing is I haven't noticed a problem with the foil trays only tin foil.

I agree with that. :-) Most baking pans are aluminum but I've gotten
into the habit of using glass. And I have a monster #14 Griswold skillet
I use for roasting. It holds a #20 turkey.

I will use aluminum foil to bake with as long as acid won't come in
contact with it, but I cover cooked dishes with cling wrap now...

Om, I'm thinking more along the lines of the tossable foil pans suitable
for really messy dishes, freezing, or taking to potlucks. The good pans
have a way of disappearing at potlucks and even some family events so I
don't take bakeware/container I'm not prepared to lose. The larger
ziploc containers are good too as long as the dish doesn't have to into
the oven.

I see your point... You can always transfer the dish from glass, steel
or iron into a suitable container.

Those disposable aluminum baking dishes are okay, as long as what I am
making is not acidic. After that one experience I'm just leery of any
chance of discoloring or bitter spots to something I'm making.

They are handy for meat roasts so you can toss rather than wash them!

That big Griswold is so well seasoned, it's easy to clean.
I generally let the dogs pre-clean it for me. <G> Once the cats are done
tho'. They get first dibs.
--
Peace, Om.

"My mother never saw the irony in calling me a son-of-a-[censored]." -Jack Nicholson