Cutlery Questions (yeah, it's all been done before)

Charter said:

GP II
is an option, but I found a place on line that sells the original Grand Prix
line for a fantastic deal, less than the best price I can find on the
classic line even. I am a bit unsure though: Like I said, I liked both the
classic and GP II, but I've never held a GP Original. Has any one held both
of those knives? From pictures it appears that the GP Original is the same
shape as the Classic and same material as the GP II.

The Grand Prix handle is rounder (and IMO feels better in hand) than the
Classic, I can't remember there being much difference in weight or
balance (although I've used the Classic only a few times). You should
notice, however, that the Grand Prix is a discontinued series (which is
why some retailers have the rest of their stock on discount, and
possibly non-returnable as such), so if you are (expecting of) getting
more knives of the same set, either buy all the Grand Prix series knives
you want now or go for the Grand Prix II.

Charter said:

Obviously I will need to hold it in my hand to be 100% sure,

The santoku that feels best to you - weight, comfort, balance, material
- is the one to get. I know that it's the standard advice, but it's the
standard because there's no substitute for the hand.

I just got an Anolon 7.5" stainless Kyotsu which is essentially a
santoku that you can rock because the blade is ground to a gentle curve.
It has Granton dimples (which too many knife makers are suddenly calling
"hollow ground" - which it isn't) so moist foods don't stick to the
blade. Wonderful knife. Heavy, soft grip, good balance, hard steel.
German steel, finished in China. CrMoV steel - takes a scalpel edge.
<http://tinyurl.com/nt4j9> complete with misspellings
<http://tinyurl.com/nt4j9> $10 cheaper, but smaller picture

I have a Furi santoku, as well. My 14-year-old daughter has claimed it
as "her" knife. It's a fine knife, as well. Integral design - handle and
blade all one piece - like Global. Takes a great edge and has an
optional sharpening system that works very well. An upswept tip. Lighter
than the Anolon, but certainly not a toy. Hard-working knife.
<http://www.cutleryandmore.com/details.asp?SKU=7752>

German makers call the dimples "kullen" or kullenschliff"...

Other interpretations:
<http://tinyurl.com/qpty3>
<http://tinyurl.com/kuzvh>
<http://tinyurl.com/gx8uu>
<http://tinyurl.com/ht9ys>

A bunch more...
<http://tinyurl.com/hul6a>

Forget brand names. Heft 'em, see how they're made, see how your arm
likes them. Then you'll know.

Pastorio

Charter said:

I'm looking to get some new cutlery. >
Thanks in advance for any info and advice.

Daniel

There are no good stainless steel kitchen knives, all are so-so.

The only really great kitchen knives are of carbon steel.

Charter said:

I'm looking to get some new cutlery. I've all but settled on Wusthof chef's
and paring knives.

Good choices, but you might want to make sure you consider the various blade
depths available on the chef's knives. I'm very partial to the deep 8 and 10
inch knives, myself; YMMV.

You also might consider the Lamsonsharp paring knives -- I have retired my
German parers in their favor. They have extremely comfortable handles for my
size 9 hands.

Quoted message said:

....Originally I figured if I'm going to get a Japanese
style knife, I might as well get a Japanese brand, so Global seemed to be
the obvious choice for me. Well I went to a store to look at and hold the
Global knives, and I'm really not too impressed with the paring part of the
set.

Globals parers have such small handles that I can't use them at all.

Quoted message said:

Just not what I would like, so I'm now looking at Wusthof santukos. I
compared the Global to the Wusthof Classic Santuko, and they both felt
really good. I liked the weight of the Global a little more, but I liked
the shape of the Wusthof a lot more.

If you like the Globals and their weight, you might consider the Wusthof Culinar
santuko with kullens. I have that as well as Globals, and really like this
particular Wusthof's light weight and fine blade.

-- Larry

"Jarno Tuomainen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Charter said:

GP II
is an option, but I found a place on line that sells the original Grand

Prix

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

line for a fantastic deal, less than the best price I can find on the
classic line even. I am a bit unsure though: Like I said, I liked both

the

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

classic and GP II, but I've never held a GP Original. Has any one held

both

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

of those knives? From pictures it appears that the GP Original is the

same

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

shape as the Classic and same material as the GP II.

The Grand Prix handle is rounder (and IMO feels better in hand) than the
Classic, I can't remember there being much difference in weight or
balance (although I've used the Classic only a few times). You should
notice, however, that the Grand Prix is a discontinued series (which is
why some retailers have the rest of their stock on discount, and
possibly non-returnable as such), so if you are (expecting of) getting
more knives of the same set, either buy all the Grand Prix series knives
you want now or go for the Grand Prix II.

Thanks for the response. I am aware of the GP being discontinued, which is
why I can't find a place that has them in store to hold. I was hoping some
one could comment on the difference between GP and GP II.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'm looking to get some new cutlery. >
Thanks in advance for any info and advice.

Daniel

There are no good stainless steel kitchen knives, all are so-so.

The only really great kitchen knives are of carbon steel.

I'm in agreement with this. I have many many stainless Wusthof babies
and I use them when I want to feel superior to the normal slugs in the
kitchen, but the damned things are so difficult to sharpen and maintain
that way, that I for everyday I use carbon steel knives. I believe chefs
prefer them also, but I only know a few professionals.

Carbon steel knives hone quickly on a steel, and when the edge is lost,
a quick pass or two on a carborundum stone (two-sided) brings them right
back. And they're much less expensive.

Note TV chefs like Pepin (one of the best IMHO), he cuts with these
fancy SS knives, but I would wonder what he uses for real.

If I had it to do over again, I'd trade these SS babies for CS.

MGJ

Our local cultery place has discontinued carrying Globals because of
poor customer service and rave about Wustoff's service. I have three
Globals (8" chef, veg slicer and asian style knife) and maintain them
at home. I love them and have small hands. We also have (wedding
gift) Wustof GP original, which I enjoy and use also.

However, does anyone feel that spending for a quality paring knife is
worth the expense? An inexpensive paring knife costs between $3-7. My
line cook friends, who cook in great Chicago restaurants, treat paring
knives as if they were disposable and don't invest in high quality
paring knives. For the home cook, is a quality paring knife worth it?

Thanks,
Elinor

I guess I don't understand the issue with handle comfort. I hold the
blade, the handle is useful for retreiving, something to hold while
washing and balance.

I would focus on steels, not handles or rivets, decide where you want
to be in blade maintenance. I like steel that shapens easily and tend
to use either big, 10" chefs, or small, 3-4 inch parers. It's nice to
have one higher nickel blade for tomatoes and citrus. So it follows
that I would buy fewer knives and spend some $$$ on sharpening tools: a
good steel, a good stone set, even a leather strop.

Will said:

I guess I don't understand the issue with handle comfort. I hold the
blade, the handle is useful for retreiving, something to hold while
washing and balance.

You're a man (based on your username), and men tend to design these
things, so other men using them tend to be perfectly comfortable with
them. Women, on the other hand, tend not to be able to report such
similarly uniform or acceptable experiences. I for one agree with
your emphasis on the steels, but the handles are important to me: I
need to feel they're not too thick, not too thin, and properly
balanced in my hand.

You can't possibly mean to tell us with your comment that you'd take a
Henckels blade and lay it into one of those thin cheap plastic handles
and be comfortable. Do you?

"Elinor Lee" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Our local cultery place has discontinued carrying Globals because of
poor customer service and rave about Wustoff's service. I have three
Globals (8" chef, veg slicer and asian style knife) and maintain them
at home. I love them and have small hands. We also have (wedding
gift) Wustof GP original, which I enjoy and use also.

However, does anyone feel that spending for a quality paring knife is
worth the expense? An inexpensive paring knife costs between $3-7. My
line cook friends, who cook in great Chicago restaurants, treat paring
knives as if they were disposable and don't invest in high quality
paring knives. For the home cook, is a quality paring knife worth it?

Thanks for the info. I've decided to get all Wusthof, and am getting a set
of GP II at a reasonable price. The Global still looks nice, but I think
the Wusthof will do me fine. I can also understand and agree to a point on
the paring knife issue. I am the same way toward my non-stick pans. They
are disposable items to me, and while I do get decent ones, I got cheep ones
that I expect to wear out, throw away, and replace eventually. I've been
using a cheap paring knife for a few years now, and may go back to one
eventually, but for now I'll play with the high end stuff and see what I
think.

"Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

I guess I don't understand the issue with handle comfort. I hold the
blade, the handle is useful for retreiving, something to hold while
washing and balance.

I would focus on steels, not handles or rivets, decide where you want
to be in blade maintenance. I like steel that shapens easily and tend
to use either big, 10" chefs, or small, 3-4 inch parers. It's nice to
have one higher nickel blade for tomatoes and citrus. So it follows
that I would buy fewer knives and spend some $$$ on sharpening tools: a
good steel, a good stone set, even a leather strop.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by "hold the blade." I've always
chopped and sliced while holding a knife's handle, but I guess different
people have different approaches. I did research and test the blades on a
few knives and settled on Wusthof. Liked the steel more than Henckels, and
while I've heard good things about Global, and did like cutting with it, I
settled on the steel of the Wusthof. Once I settled on that brand, the
issue was handle, and simply choosing between Classic or Grand Prix I/II.
It's not that the handle drove the decision, but since I do hold the handle
while cutting, I figured it would be good to pick the handle that was the
most comfortable for me for the money I wanted to pay. As for sharpening
and maintainence, I'm looking at getting a Chef's Choice 120, but I want to
research it more for daily use before I get it. Any other suggestions?

If you want an agressive method to sharpen your knives you might look
into a diamond impregnated steel. It will do a faster and better job
than a rotary wheel.

What I mean by holding the blade is that only my last two fingers are
on the handle. My thumb and first two fingers are on the blade. I grip
and guide the knife with those three. The balance point is at the
bolster. If you are behind the bolster you are unweighting the blade.
It is also less safe as you must lift your hand higher to cut, your
cutting angle is steeper and the force required is slightly greater.
Economy of motion is a nice thing with something that is quite sharp.

KLS said:

You're a man (based on your username), and men tend to design these
things, so other men using them tend to be perfectly comfortable with
them. Women, on the other hand, tend not to be able to report such
similarly uniform or acceptable experiences.

I hadn't considered a gender differential in knife handling. I don't
know if that's good, meaning I have no bias, or bad, since I might
simply be clueless.

Quoted message said:

You can't possibly mean to tell us with your comment that you'd take a
Henckels blade and lay it into one of those thin cheap plastic handles
and be comfortable. Do you?

No. I wouldn't do that to a Henckels<g>.

Will said:

KLS said:

You can't possibly mean to tell us with your comment that you'd take a
Henckels blade and lay it into one of those thin cheap plastic handles
and be comfortable. Do you?

No. I wouldn't do that to a Henckels<g>.

Whew. Good. My Henckels Professional knives are similarly relieved.
🙂

Will said:

What I mean by holding the blade is that only my last two fingers are
on the handle. My thumb and first two fingers are on the blade.

On a paring knife, which is what's under discussion?

Quoted message said:

and guide the knife with those three. The balance point is at the
bolster.

Not on any of my knives.

-- Larry

Elinor Lee said:

Our local cultery place has discontinued carrying Globals because of
poor customer service....

BTW, what is "customer service" when it comes to knives? Or did he mean poor
service to their dealers?

Tnx -- Larry

"pltrgyst" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Will said:

What I mean by holding the blade is that only my last two fingers are
on the handle. My thumb and first two fingers are on the blade.

On a paring knife, which is what's under discussion?

As the OP, I can say that several knives are under discussion, at least for
me, as I am buying a whole set, though not all at once. Yes I am getting a
paring knife, but also a chef's, Satoku, and carver.

Now, considering each of these knives, using a parer as a parer, I just
can't see that as being useful (holding the blade that is).
Utility/slicing/carving knives, because of the speed with which I use that
knife, *I* can't see it as being useful. I can kindof understand what he is
saying when using a chef's knife, with the constant chopping, but it's not
how I hold the knife. Am I doing it incorrectly? Perhaps. Is it just a
different style? Maybe so. I appreciate what he is saying, but it's not
how I hold the knife. For the santoku, while I am not very experienced with
them, my understanding is that they are meant to be used more like a cleaver
than a rocking chef's knife when chopping, so again, I don't see the
advantage. Most of this is to Will, and I'm not saying he is wrong or
anything, just that I don't hold a knife that way, so to me perhaps the
handle is more important. Just differences.

"Will" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

If you want an agressive method to sharpen your knives you might look
into a diamond impregnated steel. It will do a faster and better job
than a rotary wheel.

Are you talking sharpening or honing here? My understanding is that a steel
(or a stone) is for honing only. Currently I use a "diamond stone" for
honing. Sure, it's actual diamond on steel, but it's flat and I use it like
a stone. I'm not as practiced with a steel, but I suppose I could learn.
My big issue with the stone or steel approach is getting the angle true.
I've got years of practice on the stone, but I'd have to believe that angles
are a bit more consistant with a rotary wheel device. My big questions are
1) Is the stroping slot of the Chef's Mate 120 appropriate for daily use to
keep the edge on a blade, and 2) if not, are either of the other two slots
honers that are also appropriate, or do they actually sharpen, wearing away
metal unnecessarily? If all the first two stages do is hone, will I still
potentially need to sharpen my knives, regardless of what the Chef's Choice
marketing proppaganda reads?

Please enlighten me as to why a steel, diamond coated or not, is any better
than a wheel honer/stroper? Not trying to challenge you, just to understand
your position, especially given the angle issue I mentioned above. Thanks
for all your input!

Charter said:

I'm looking to get some new cutlery. I've all but settled on Wusthof chef's
and paring knives. I was also looking to get a 7" and 3" Santuko set. I
wanted to get the santuko in addition to a chef's knife because variety is
the spice of life 🙂. Originally I figured if I'm going to get a Japanese
style knife, I might as well get a Japanese brand, so Global seemed to be
the obvious choice for me. Well I went to a store to look at and hold the
Global knives, and I'm really not too impressed with the paring part of the
set. Just not what I would like, so I'm now looking at Wusthof santukos. I
compared the Global to the Wusthof Classic Santuko, and they both felt
really good. I liked the weight of the Global a little more, but I liked
the shape of the Wusthof a lot more.

I have no desire to start a holy war by asking who makes a better knife; to
do so would be perilous, but I am looking for opinions of those here. Any
one who has looked at these knives, the Global and Wusthof Santukos, could I
get some pros and cons? What in your mind may make one a better choice over
the other in a particular arena? I doubt that one is head and shoulders
above the other, and both would probably be a fine choice in the long run,
but because this is potentially such a long term decision, I want to nit
pick until I am comfortable with my choices, so any info and advice would be
appreciated. I'm leaning toward Wusthof right now, for price among other
reasons, but I can be swayed with a good argument.

Also, I have been raised to appreciate the full tang, triple rivet design.
I have always used and owned such knives, and I really enjoy them. For some
reason though, I became intrigued by the idea of the Wusthof Grand Prix. I
went to the store and held both a GP II and Classic chef's knife in my hand.
I did not really notice an ergonomic or balance difference in them, but the
GP II was a little lighter (I prefer a heavier knife). A key thing for me
though was the material: As comfortable as both knives were in shape, the
Classic knife seemed bit rougher with my skin and the GP II didn't agitate
my cuts nearly as much, so I'm really leaning towards that material. GP II
is an option, but I found a place on line that sells the original Grand Prix
line for a fantastic deal, less than the best price I can find on the
classic line even. I am a bit unsure though: Like I said, I liked both the
classic and GP II, but I've never held a GP Original. Has any one held both
of those knives? From pictures it appears that the GP Original is the same
shape as the Classic and same material as the GP II. Obviously I will need
to hold it in my hand to be 100% sure, but based on the experiences of any
one out there, if I find the balance and ergonomics of the Classic and GP II
lines acceptable, should I also like the original GP line? Obviously I
would hold them and consider sending them back if I don't, but I'd like to
know as much as possible and be prepared before I shell out that much and
risk the return shipping costs.

Thanks in advance for any info and advice.

Daniel

Our family use Zwilling J.A. Henchkels Premium. Those knives work
perfectly for our normal domestic cooking purposes. Chopping knife -
we have a habit of sharpening them once a while regardless of brand.