cooking illteracy

Nancy Young said:

"jmcquown" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

I still advocate teaching someone how to bake a chicken and
determine when it is done with poking a fork in the thigh and making
sure the juices run clear or jiggling a drumstick. A special
digital thermometer? Hell no. Figure out if it's done like grandma
or great grandma did. I never had a thermometer for a roast
chicken. I also never served a dried out roast chicken.

I think you've read plenty of testemonials here that mom's chicken
was dry as dust and you could knock someone out with the overdone
pork chops of their youth. Just cause it's gramma doesn't mean we
should go there.

I don't have a problem with chicken, probably because I'm not adverse
to it being somewhat overdone. Not dry overdone, falling off the bone
overdone. But since I started using a thermometer, I have been in for
some surprises, and pleasant ones at that.

nancy

Sorry, I was just a poor young wife without a thermometer and I tried my
hand at roasting chicken using the Betty Crocker cookbook method (that is to
say, put it on a roasting rack and brush it with butter then with the
drippings periodically). I needed no thermometer; just watched it and did
what I said before to find out if it was done. I never made a dry or
undercooked roasted chicken 🙂 Maybe I just have the knack; dunno.

Jill

"LadyJane" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
snip

As an aside, am feeling very pleased with myself at present. Invited to
a dear friends birthday tomorrow lunchtime. Her Deliciously Wicked
Chocolate cake is cooling, the pavlova is almost ready to have the oven
door opened so it can cool in comfort and a draught free environment
(to be topped around lunchtime tomorrow with lashings of double cream,
macerated peaches, kiwi fruit, strawberries - 2 punnets - and
passionfruit.
Just wondering how much the sucker is going to sink - at present it is
1 inch above the top of a 12 inch springform pan.......and looks
glorious! (feeling smug - oops... pride cometh before a fall... and no
doubt the 'fall' will be perpetrated by said pav!)
Wanted to make my chocolate rum pavlova, but the hostess requested
fruit. Hmmm... maybe I'll make another one for us alco-choco-holics

just my 2¢ worth

LadyJane
--
Well thanks a lot. There isn't one sweet thing in my house right now and I
have Pavlovas and fruit and cream and chocolate dancing in my head. I don't
think a glass of ice water is going to fix this craving. ;o}
Janet

On Sat 08 Apr 2006 05:36:29p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Janet
Bostwick?

Quoted message said:

"LadyJane" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...
snip

As an aside, am feeling very pleased with myself at present. Invited to
a dear friends birthday tomorrow lunchtime. Her Deliciously Wicked
Chocolate cake is cooling, the pavlova is almost ready to have the oven
door opened so it can cool in comfort and a draught free environment
(to be topped around lunchtime tomorrow with lashings of double cream,
macerated peaches, kiwi fruit, strawberries - 2 punnets - and
passionfruit.
Just wondering how much the sucker is going to sink - at present it is
1 inch above the top of a 12 inch springform pan.......and looks
glorious! (feeling smug - oops... pride cometh before a fall... and no
doubt the 'fall' will be perpetrated by said pav!)
Wanted to make my chocolate rum pavlova, but the hostess requested
fruit. Hmmm... maybe I'll make another one for us alco-choco-holics

just my 2¢ worth

LadyJane
--
Well thanks a lot. There isn't one sweet thing in my house right now
and I have Pavlovas and fruit and cream and chocolate dancing in my
head. I don't think a glass of ice water is going to fix this craving.
;o} Janet

Put some scotch or rye in that ice water and you probably won't care. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat 08 Apr 2006 05:36:29p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Janet
Bostwick?

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well thanks a lot. There isn't one sweet thing in my house right now
and I have Pavlovas and fruit and cream and chocolate dancing in my
head. I don't think a glass of ice water is going to fix this craving.
;o} Janet

Put some scotch or rye in that ice water and you probably won't care. :-)

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

Scotch it is ;o}

On Sat 08 Apr 2006 06:34:33p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Janet
Bostwick?

Quoted message said:

"Wayne Boatwright" <wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sat 08 Apr 2006 05:36:29p, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it Janet
Bostwick?

snip

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Well thanks a lot. There isn't one sweet thing in my house right now
and I have Pavlovas and fruit and cream and chocolate dancing in my
head. I don't think a glass of ice water is going to fix this
craving. ;o} Janet

Put some scotch or rye in that ice water and you probably won't care.
:-)

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬ _____________________

Scotch it is ;o}

Good going!

--
Wayne Boatwright @¿@¬
_____________________

On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:42:01 -0500, "jmcquown" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Nancy Young wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I don't have a problem with chicken, probably because I'm not adverse
to it being somewhat overdone. Not dry overdone, falling off the bone
overdone. But since I started using a thermometer, I have been in for
some surprises, and pleasant ones at that.

nancy

Sorry, I was just a poor young wife without a thermometer and I tried my
hand at roasting chicken using the Betty Crocker cookbook method (that is to
say, put it on a roasting rack and brush it with butter then with the
drippings periodically). I needed no thermometer; just watched it and did
what I said before to find out if it was done. I never made a dry or
undercooked roasted chicken 🙂 Maybe I just have the knack; dunno.

Jill

You know what really puzzles me... how come digital thermometers are
EVERYWHERE but you can't get a good old-fashioned metal cake-testing
skewer for love or money in the US... I've never used an oven
thermometer in my life (I don't even know how!) - I was taught that
the chicken is cooked when you check between the leg and the breast
and it's white, not pink and the juices run clear... I adore my
chicken moist-cooked till it's falling apart too!

I must admit I've succumbed to the lure of SOME convenience foods - if
I want tapioca or rice pudding I buy it in a tub because it's so much
less work than making it myself! Also I don't know how to make a small
quantity of it and if I made a large one I love it so much I'd eat it
all and get sick :P And Salad-in-a-bag is very convenient. When you're
only feeding two people it's sometimes easier to buy stuff partly
done.

I'm still staggered at a lot of people's level of general cooking
ignorance... I don't usually write down quantities in my recipes -
they're more like a general guide than a specific formula. Is it that
hard to know that you need one carrot per person, or that onion and
garlic are meant to be sauteed?

jmcquown said:

IIRC rfc had this same article or something similar posted a couple of
times in the last two weeks.

I don't call it 'illiteracy' in the directions. The directions are all
subject to interpretations. The problem I perceive is in people not knowing
how to convert measurements (to what they are used to, mind you... I'm used
to U.S. measurements). For example: 4 Tbs. butter = 1/4 cup. A stick of
butter = 1/2 a cup. It says so right on the package, so why is this so
difficult? 2 cups dried pasta = 8 oz. If you bake bread, use a level
measure for the dry ingredients. My grandma did. To me it's not the mixing
of the ingredients instructions or even then baking instructions that are
the problem; it's the how to take the results and simmer or bake it.

I still advocate teaching someone how to bake a chicken and determine when
it is done with poking a fork in the thigh and making sure the juices run
clear or jiggling a drumstick. A special digital thermometer? Hell no.
Figure out if it's done like grandma or great grandma did. I never had a
thermometer for a roast chicken. I also never served a dried out roast
chicken.

Jill

I cook the "old fashioned" way too, Jill. 99% of what I cook is not
from a recipe, and are techniques and dishes handed down for 2-4
generations in my family. My best reference book is the New Settlement
Cook Book published in 1954 which I inheritied from my great Aunt. I
don't own a meat thermometer. I think the best cooking is passed down,
person to person, as an culture, as humans have done for thousands of
years.

-L.

Debbie said:

Dee Randall said:

Quoted message said:

LOL -- We love it when we check out and they ask us what this or
that is -- we crack up on our way to the car.

Don't you just love the ones that make a mistake on ringing in your
order and have to manually make change instead of having the computer
tell them how much? You don't want to be in a hurry!

Debbie

God FORBID someone should have to learn how to count back change! Hey, I'm
not a math wizard but even I can count backwards from 100 (or in this case
dollars). When I get a clerk at a store who counts my change back to me I
always thank them for knowing how to do it. "five, ten and fifteen makes
twenty". Thank you!

Jill

Karen AKA Kajikit said:

On Sat, 8 Apr 2006 12:42:01 -0500, "jmcquown" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Sorry, I was just a poor young wife without a thermometer and I
tried my hand at roasting chicken using the Betty Crocker cookbook
method (that is to say, put it on a roasting rack and brush it with
butter then with the drippings periodically). I needed no
thermometer
Jill

You know what really puzzles me... how come digital thermometers are
EVERYWHERE but you can't get a good old-fashioned metal cake-testing
skewer for love or money in the US.

I've always only just used the (wooden) toothpick test. Put a toothpick in
the middle of the cake, if it comes out clean, it's done. If batter sticks
to it, it needs to cook more.

(Yes, folks, I have on occasion baked a cake)

OB Cake:

Mom's recipe for Yellow Cake

2-1/4 c. sifted flour
1-1/2 c. sugar
3/4 c. vegetable shortening
3/4 c. milk
3 eggs
2-1/2 tsp. baking powder
1 tsp. salt
1 tsp. vanilla extract
1/2 tsp. almond extract

Preheat the oven to 375F degrees. Grease and flour two 9 inch round baking
pans. Into a large bowl, mix all ingredients. With a mixer set at low
speed, mix well, constantly scraping the bowl. Beat at medium speed about 5
minutes. Pour the batter into pans and bake 25 minutes or until a toothpick
inserted in the middle comes out clean.

Cool on wire racks for 10 minutes. Carefully remove the cakes from the pans
and cool completely. Makes 2 layers ready to be frosted.

I prefer chocolate frosting on yellow cake 🙂

Jill

Karen AKA Kajikit said:

I'm still staggered at a lot of people's level of general cooking
ignorance... I don't usually write down quantities in my recipes -
they're more like a general guide than a specific formula. Is it that
hard to know that you need one carrot per person, or that onion and
garlic are meant to be sauteed?

Its not just cooking. If you have ever been involved hiring people you
will find that few people seem to do much besides using aol instant
messengr and watching American idol and have little general knowledge.
So it is quite difficult to think thru even a simple scenerio as you
described with that skillset.

They also make perfect consumers because they buy all of the "easy"
prepackaged stuff and don't know how to compute the cost or value of
anything.

"D.Currie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And I for one needed those when I started cooking from cookbooks. I

learned

Quoted message said:

the techniques for doing things, but not the names. So as I was helping in
the kitchen as a youngster, it wasn't "fold this into that" it was "take
this thing and do *this* with it" while she was showing me what to do.

And that's another part of the problem - it's not that these
people don't know what the word "fold" means, it's that they
are completely unaware of the basic technique and why and how
you do it.

Just knowing how to read and follow a recipe isn't enough if
you don't have at least some grasp of the "why" behind it all.
Take the example from the story, of the guy who greased the
OUTSIDE of the pan and then complained about the fire! Hey,
the recipe DID say "grease the pan," and he did that, right? The
problem was that he was blindly following a list of directions, and
while he knew what "grease" meant and what "pan" meant, his
understanding of why this step was being done was so poor that
just blindly following the instructions as given got him in trouble.

This is why I like to point people to books on cooking techniques
rather than classic "cookbooks" (collections of recipes)...

Bob M.

jmcquown said:

I still advocate teaching someone how to bake a chicken and determine when
it is done with poking a fork in the thigh and making sure the juices run
clear or jiggling a drumstick.

That's the best way to do it, IMHO, and cheaper and easier to
understand to boot.
I used to be friends with someone on LiveJournal whose wife
volunteered for an organization which was supposed to help prevent
obesity in children. All they did was complain about McDonald's. They
never held any classes for adults to learn how to cook on their own,
never did any nutrition education, had no complaints about the food the
school served for lunches or anything of the sort. Just prevented the
school from allowing McD's gift certificates from being given as
presents/rewards.
My experience is that people just don't know how to cook anymore and
rely on TV dinners or fast food. THAT is what needs to be dealt with.
But I think I'm probably preaching to the choir here.

Stacia

LadyJane said:

* cooked rice in the freezer section

I thought Minute Rice was silly, but precooked rice is just
frightening.

Quoted message said:

* exorbidantly priced pasta 'side' dishes - alfredo, carbonara,
napolitana...sheesh

I had some the other day, I think they were Lipton Thai flavored
noodles, and they were so bland. Thought I'd be saving some time but we
ended up throwing half of it out because it was just kind of gross.

Quoted message said:

Then there are the newbie checkout chicks/guys who have no idea what
certain vegetables & fruits are.

Heh. We've all dealt with that more often than we want to remember.
My grocery checkout clerks have no idea what bok choy is, despite the
fact that enough of it sells that they must check bok choy at least once
a day.
Your pavlova sounds so yummy! I've never had pavlova but some recpes
I found online look good.

Stacia

Glitter Ninja said:

jmcquown said:

I still advocate teaching someone how to bake a chicken and determine when
it is done with poking a fork in the thigh and making sure the juices run
clear or jiggling a drumstick.

That's the best way to do it, IMHO, and cheaper and easier to
understand to boot.
I used to be friends with someone on LiveJournal whose wife
volunteered for an organization which was supposed to help prevent
obesity in children. All they did was complain about McDonald's. They
never held any classes for adults to learn how to cook on their own,
never did any nutrition education, had no complaints about the food the
school served for lunches or anything of the sort. Just prevented the
school from allowing McD's gift certificates from being given as
presents/rewards.
My experience is that people just don't know how to cook anymore and
rely on TV dinners or fast food. THAT is what needs to be dealt with.
But I think I'm probably preaching to the choir here.

Stacia

See this in a round about way came up of the *food snob* thread. The
thing is some people just don't know. These terms are foreign to them
and it is easier to eat out than learn the terms. Don't ask me why. We
are lucky here. We have an interest in food and *even* if we don't have
the money we have the ability to create a good meal. I think in some
ways it's hard for us to understand those who don't share our interest
in food. Make sense?

"Bob Myers" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"D.Currie" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

And I for one needed those when I started cooking from cookbooks. I

learned

Quoted message said:

the techniques for doing things, but not the names. So as I was helping
in
the kitchen as a youngster, it wasn't "fold this into that" it was "take
this thing and do *this* with it" while she was showing me what to do.

And that's another part of the problem - it's not that these
people don't know what the word "fold" means, it's that they
are completely unaware of the basic technique and why and how
you do it.

Just knowing how to read and follow a recipe isn't enough if
you don't have at least some grasp of the "why" behind it all.
Take the example from the story, of the guy who greased the
OUTSIDE of the pan and then complained about the fire! Hey,
the recipe DID say "grease the pan," and he did that, right? The
problem was that he was blindly following a list of directions, and
while he knew what "grease" meant and what "pan" meant, his
understanding of why this step was being done was so poor that
just blindly following the instructions as given got him in trouble.

This is why I like to point people to books on cooking techniques
rather than classic "cookbooks" (collections of recipes)...

Bob M.

I'll bet that if you talk to anyone who is a good cook *now* they can tell
you about something stupid they did when they were learning how to cook. Or
something stupid they did when they weren't paying enough attention. But
people who are interested in cooking will take the time to learn more, while
the rest either poison themselves or go out to restaurants.

And when it comes to the incredibly stupid things that people do, I'm always
a little skeptical whether they actually did those things, or whether it's
just an urban legend, or a scam of some sort.

But yeah, books with techniques are good, and if they've got follow-along
photos, that's better. Videos and some of the Food TV shows will show more
than recipes. AB is good for that, where he explains why he does things. Or
the relationships between recipes that use the same ingredients.

I still think hands-on is the best way to learn, if you've got a good
teacher. Unfortunately, if "mom" isn't a good cook, that means that kids
need to learn elsewhere.

But it's not just the current generation. My MIL isn't much of a cook. One
daughter doesn't cook -- her husband does. The other daughter likes to cook,
and is pretty good at it. AFAIK, none of the 4 sons do any cooking at all.

D.Currie said:

I still think hands-on is the best way to learn

Okay, I totally misparsed "hands-on".

I think maybe I need to take a nap.

(Or a cold shower.)

serene

Nancy Young said:

"Harriet Neal" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

now this is scary...

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/living/food/14263404.htm

My Joy of Cooking is from the early 1970s ... over 30 years
old. It explains cooking terms in excrutiating detail. For this
reason I question the article saying JOC has had to add a
glossary of cooking terms. They probably just reorganized
the information, which is not a bad idea.

How much uncooked rice does it take to make a cup of
cooked rice? For pete's sake, people even here debate how
much water they add. I go 1 cup rice/2 cups water, but I know
some people use more or less. And didn't someone just say
that Sarah Moulton just boils up some rice and strains it?
And who the hell cooks up 1 cup of rice? Yes, I know, some
of you nuts. (laugh)

Not arguing with the gist of the article. The guy who buttered
the outside of the pan, well ... morons are nothing new. But
when you have people saying, just add applesauce, not oil
to your cake batter ... I could see someone thinking a juicy
peach might cut it for eggs. Shaky, but ... if you never baked.

But, yes, people are not being taught to cook anymore, more
and more, but that would include me, so there is hope that people
would like to learn.

nancy

...to add to the tips.. If peeling Taro, be sure to check whether your
skin will itch to see whether you need gloves..

In article <[email hidden]>,

LadyJane said:

Don't get me wrong, I use convenience foods too, but usually as a
supplement to the meal I am preparing. You can find a use for most
things, but I find the sort of rubbish manufacturers are trying to sell
to the unsuspecting public is in fact designed to create a society
which are totally, utterly and forever dependant on the manufacturers
for their daily meals. It's a conspiracy! (joke intended... but then
maybe there is truth in there somewhere)

It concerns me, actually, how many things I cook that I've had others
tell me are "too hard" to make themselves.

Risotto, for instance. An awful lot of people here use god-awful packet
mixes for it. Risotto isn't hard, for goodness sake!

Because of various dietary issues (I can't eat wheat, neither my husband
nor daughter can eat tomatoes) we cook a lot from scratch. We can get a
tasty, nutritious dinner on the table in 20 minutes. Less time than it
takes to get pizza delivered! But apparently we're freaks for doing so.

Miche (who made lamb biryani for dinner last night -- from scratch!)

--
WWMVD?

In article <[email hidden]>,

Nancy Young said:

"LadyJane" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

The article was indeed alarming. But then... take a trip to any
supermarket!
The items they have at eye level, or most prominent, are those that are
usually big sellers. Things which shock me:

Even in Australia, that's very interesting.

New Zealand, too.

And it's interesting how much stuff we get from the "foreign muck"
section, or from the high or low shelves (never mind the fresh veg!).

Miche

--
WWMVD?

In article <[email hidden]>,

LadyJane said:

Anecdote: I had only been married a few months and had never before
made a Pavlova when my husband said we had been invited to a work party
and he had volunteered me to bring along dessert - Pavlova!!!

Heh. You're much kinder than I am. My response would have been "here,
this is a good recipe -- have a nice time making it!"

Miche

--
WWMVD?