Nozal, most surprising GT Winner since?

[email hidden] (Crank Yanker) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility that
Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

How about last year's Vuelta?

Or the TdF in 1999?

NS

[email hidden] (Crank Yanker) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility that
Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

Giovanetti winning the Vuelta in 1990?

--Noel

"Crank Yanker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility that
Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

Last year's Vuelta. Before that, the 2001 and 2000 editions of the same race. The last time a
"favorite" won the Vuelta was '99 (Ullrich) and Olano won the 1998 version (finally!). Most Vuelta
winners are "surprise" winners.

"Noel Llopis" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

[email hidden] (Crank Yanker) wrote in :"]news:[email hidden]:

Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility
that Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

Giovanetti winning the Vuelta in 1990?

--Noel

If you want most surprising of all, I would say Eric Caritoux in the 1984 version for the Skil team,
where he was called in the day before to replace a domestique. After that, Alvaro Pino was a
surprising winner in 1996. About half of the Vueltas between those that I mentioned were won by
"suprise winners".

Quoted message said:

How about last year's Vuelta?

I had Aitor Gonzalez on my fantasy team so I must have thought he could win. Don't remember exactly
how his form was leading up to the race, but he finished 6th in the Giro earlier in the year.

Quoted message said:

Or the TdF in 1999?

Lance was 4th in the Vuelta the year before, and there was all the talk about him focusing his
season on winning the Tour in '99.

So, I don't think either of those qualify. I doubt there is anyone anywhere who picked Nozal as even
a long-shot winner before this race started. That's the kind of surprise winner I'm asking about.

There isn't the slightest chance of Nozal winning with at least two killer climbing stages left.

"Crank Yanker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How about last year's Vuelta?

I had Aitor Gonzalez on my fantasy team so I must have thought he could win. Don't remember
exactly how his form was leading up to

the

Quoted message said:

race, but he finished 6th in the Giro earlier in the year.

Quoted message said:

Or the TdF in 1999?

Lance was 4th in the Vuelta the year before, and there was all the talk about him focusing his
season on winning the Tour in '99.

So, I don't think either of those qualify. I doubt there is anyone anywhere who picked Nozal as
even a long-shot winner before this

race

Quoted message said:

started. That's the kind of surprise winner I'm asking about.

"Crank Yanker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility that
Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

Jan Ullrich was a shock twice - first coming in second to Bjarne Riis, himself a dark horse, and
then winning the next year at the age of 23. 23 - Imagine if Michael Rogers or Sylvain Chavanel had
won this year!

-Sonarrat.

Nozal is extremer than a non-favorite. He was a nobody. Guys like Giovanetti, Caritoux.... well at
least they had been visible in mountain stages previously.

Those 'killer stages' have just one serious climb at the end. Only the Pandera will suit climbers
like Heras better. So judging from the course, it looks good for Nozal. But often such riders new in
that situation crack simply because it's the third week.

Now on the question of this thread: I hear comparisons with Mauri, Vuelta 91. But at least people
who followed racing knew him before. Nozal has a really blank state of affairs.

Laurent Fignon was also a real surprise. Before he won the Tour, he was internationally most known
for breaking a pedal in a winning position in Paris-Tours. But actually he had won Critere
International the year before, and a Vuelta stage too.

For Kurgan I must add Nozal lost 10 kgs since joining ONCE.

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Those 'killer stages' have just one serious climb at the end. Only the Pandera will suit climbers
like Heras better. So judging from the course, it looks good for Nozal. But often such riders new
in that situation crack simply because it's the third week.

Now on the question of this thread: I hear comparisons with Mauri, Vuelta 91. But at least people
who followed racing knew him before. Nozal has a really blank state of affairs.

Laurent Fignon was also a real surprise. Before he won the Tour, he was internationally most known
for breaking a pedal in a winning position in Paris-Tours. But actually he had won Critere
International the year before, and a Vuelta stage too.

For Kurgan I must add Nozal lost 10 kgs since joining ONCE.

Damn, that's what can legitimately be termed a transformation.

Thanks Bart.

"Sonarrat" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Crank Yanker" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

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Quoted message said:

So with the first major mountains behind them, it's no longer beyond the realm of possibility
that Nozal could take the Vuelta. This would be the most surprising grand tour win since when?

Jan Ullrich was a shock twice - first coming in second to Bjarne Riis,

himself a

Quoted message said:

dark horse, and then winning the next year at the age of 23.

I didn't think the 2nd year was a shock. The first one was.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Those 'killer stages' have just one serious climb at the end. Only the Pandera will suit
climbers like Heras better. So judging from the course, it looks good for Nozal. But often such
riders new in that situation crack simply because it's the third week.

Now on the question of this thread: I hear comparisons with Mauri, Vuelta 91. But at least
people who followed racing knew him before. Nozal has a really blank state of affairs.

Laurent Fignon was also a real surprise. Before he won the Tour, he was internationally most
known for breaking a pedal in a winning position in Paris-Tours. But actually he had won Critere
International the year before, and a Vuelta stage too.

For Kurgan I must add Nozal lost 10 kgs since joining ONCE.

Damn, that's what can legitimately be termed a transformation.

OLN's TdF site says Nozal is 1.81m and 70.0 kg, which translates to 5'11" and 154 lb. If this is
true, he is very similar to Ivan Basso and a bit smaller than Jan Ullrich. That site isn't totally
reliable, though - Francisco Mancebo is most definitely NOT 84 kg, nor has he ever been.

-Sonarrat.

"Van Hoorebeeck Bart" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Nozal is extremer than a non-favorite. He was a nobody. Guys like Giovanetti, Caritoux.... well at
least they had been visible in mountain stages previously.

Nozal had already shown some climbing ability in Spanish one week races and in this year
Deutschland Tour

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His first GT, Tour'92, wasn't bad either. I even considered him a long shot for the podium in last
Tour. These days, the usual comparison in Spain is with Indurain in 1990 TdF. Lack of winning
mentality seems to be his main con.

Jenko

--
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Quoted message said:

Nozal had already shown some climbing ability in Spanish one week races and in this year
Deutschland Tour

But he is primarily known as a time trialist, right? I know I've seen his name in the results in the
past, and thought, "damn, ONCE has another young good time trialist on their squad."

Still, even within ONCE I would think Azevedo, Jaksche, Serrano, Hruska would have all been expected
to do better than Nozal?

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

Those 'killer stages' have just one serious climb at the end.

I suppose the 12 km uphill ITT stage 20 dosen't count them?

"Crank Yanker" <[email hidden]> wrote >

Quoted message said:

Still, even within ONCE I would think Azevedo, Jaksche, Serrano, Hruska would have all been
expected to do better than Nozal?

But those you mention have already reached their peak. Nozal is 26 now, and still progressing. As an
amateur, he was one of the most dominant and promising riders in Spain, albeit he weighed too much
back then. Since he turned pro, he has been slowly but steadily improving. Three years ago he was a
nobody; next year, he became a good roleour; in 2002 he made his debut in a GT, and did fine both in
TTs and hills. Sure, his Vuelta performance is surprising everyone, but I knew that he has a Top 10
in his legs.

Jenko

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Fred Marx <[email hidden]> wrote in message
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Quoted message said:

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

Those 'killer stages' have just one serious climb at the end.

I suppose the 12 km uphill ITT stage 20 dosen't count them

Probably not, there appears to be only one short steep section that occurs in the first couple
of kms and then fairly shallow (average only 5.8 %) even flat and slightly downhill in the
middle briefly.

Van Hoorebeeck Bart said:

Nozal is extremer than a non-favorite. He was a nobody. Guys like Giovanetti, Caritoux.... well at
least they had been visible in mountain stages previously.

More, Giovannetti was an olympic champion in the TTT and he was renowned as a top rider
against time.