A question on muscle aches and statins

"Pete Connors" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?

I don't feel qualified to answer your question. However, very recently I had a
very similar problem and it was diagnosed as a rotator cuff problem. Nobody
suspected statins. I went through physical therapy and was advised to avoid
certain exercise machines that put a strain on the shoulder - those that
involve lifting weights over my head. And I'm doing better now.

Bill

x-no-archive: yes
I'll tell you, if you do have the major problem with Satins, as I did..
just be thankful you are aware of it. I wasn't until I asked the
question on THIS newsgroup. Dr Chung picked up on it and suggested I
have a CPK test, I did ..and sure nuff, it was 'out of range' and my
cardio stopped the statins immediately ! no more ever !
if you are really having this problem, get a CPK test.
My leg muscles were just killing me. They just ached terribly..I
attributed this to pushing my husband's wheelchair. It's the type of
pain you have after you've overused a muscle and it Hurts. Sure nuff ,,
it wasn't that it was the statins !
good luck !

Sounds like a typical gym injury to me. A good rule is the 5% rule,
don't add more than 5% in weights at a time.

Pete Connors <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?

Pete Connors <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?

Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
attach to the rotator cuff. this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint. I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
larger upper body muscles.

You stopped the upper body workouts, continued the statin, and the pain slowly
went away, right?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Jim Chinnis said:

snip

You stopped the upper body workouts, continued the statin, and the pain slowly
went away, right?

That's what has nearly finished happening. I asked about the pain at
my gym and they said to discontinue the upper body work until it got
better. Nobody mentioned the words 'rotator cuff' - I should have
asked this group earlier!
Thanks to all for the responses.

Pete C

Jim Chinnis said:

Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
attach to the rotator cuff.

The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

Quoted message said:

this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint.

Not common at all. ime.

Quoted message said:

I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
larger upper body muscles.

I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
thing.

Pete Connors said:

That's what has nearly finished happening. I asked about the pain at
my gym and they said to discontinue the upper body work until it got
better.

You got lucky. Somebody, well intentioned but entirely off base, might
have advised a full rotator cuff routine, whatever that is.

Quoted message said:

Nobody mentioned the words 'rotator cuff' - I should have
asked this group earlier!
Thanks to all for the responses.

Welcome.

Now, off to the ortho with you.

I know nothing about Statin, but I had a rotator cuff, and I know what you
mean, can't bring the arm up behind you, or bending the arm at the elbow,
can't bring it out to the side. Ouch!! I did the exercised at home after a
few trips to the Therapist. I'm fine now.
(I also was doing weights, and still do, but carefully).....Nel

Quoted message said:

Sounds like a typical gym injury to me. A good rule is the 5% rule,
don't add more than 5% in weights at a time.

Pete Connors <[email hidden]> wrote in message

news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?

Question for you Mu, off topic.......

I play a lot of tennis and have never had a rotator cuff problem but many
fellow players have had injuries; some to the extent that permanently took
them off the courts.

Because I don't get to play as often as I like, I am wondering how do I go
about keeping my rotator cuff healthy? I have only had one serious sports
related injury about 15 years ago and I do not want another. Is there
anything I can do to lessen my odds?

j
"Harvest Mu_n" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis said:

Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles

that

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

attach to the rotator cuff.

The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

Quoted message said:

this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint.

Not common at all. ime.

Quoted message said:

I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
larger upper body muscles.

I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
thing.

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis said:

Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
attach to the rotator cuff.

The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

Four muscles and their tendons.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint.

Not common at all. ime.

Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
larger upper body muscles.

I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

Quoted message said:

I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
thing.

If there is still pain or any trouble, yes. But he said that went away.

I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises. By that I mean the
strengthening of the four muscles. If he has pain or restricted range of
motion, I'd certainly see an orthopedist first. But I thought he said he was
ok.

This is Usenet, not a doctor's office.

(Pete, if you'd like a set of exercises, I can snail mail you one, just email
me. There's also good discussion of rotator cuff conditioning in the book by
Everett Aaberg, called "Muscle Mechanics."😉
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Yes, I am now OK and have recommenced some gentle upper body exercise.

When the injury first exhibited itself it was because of the Fool's
Principle ("the rules apply to everybody but me"😉 in increasing
weights too fast. I applied Occam's Razor and decided that the injury
was probably exercise related, but was curious to know how
statin-related muscle pain typically presented.

Jim Chinnis said:

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Jim Chinnis said:

Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
attach to the rotator cuff.

The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

Four muscles and their tendons.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint.

Not common at all. ime.

Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
larger upper body muscles.

I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

Quoted message said:

I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
thing.

If there is still pain or any trouble, yes. But he said that went away.

I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises. By that I mean the
strengthening of the four muscles. If he has pain or restricted range of
motion, I'd certainly see an orthopedist first. But I thought he said he was
ok.

This is Usenet, not a doctor's office.

(Pete, if you'd like a set of exercises, I can snail mail you one, just email
me. There's also good discussion of rotator cuff conditioning in the book by
Everett Aaberg, called "Muscle Mechanics."😉

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:11:12 -0500, "Julianne" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Question for you Mu, off topic.......

I play a lot of tennis and have never had a rotator cuff problem but many
fellow players have had injuries; some to the extent that permanently took
them off the courts.

Played a lot of tennis between 1980-1992, saw those injuries myself.

Quoted message said:

Because I don't get to play as often as I like, I am wondering how do I go
about keeping my rotator cuff healthy? I have only had one serious sports
related injury about 15 years ago and I do not want another. Is there
anything I can do to lessen my odds?

Remember first, that your RC plays several roles. It seats the
humeral head into the shoulder socket (stability), it internally and
externally rotates your arm, it assists the lifting of your arm (elbow
at side to elbow parallel to shoulder. Except for the humeral
seating, the RC works in conjunction with the lats, pecs etc to
accomplish arm movement tasks.

http://physicaltherapy.about.com/library/weekly/aa103000a.htm

Now, to your answer.

The best way to strengthen a healthy RC is to lift weights in a proper
regimen. All those things I mentioned above are typical arm movements
in a well written weight program, aren't they?

As an alternative, or for extra work, you could use very light weights
performing three simple exercises (and I mean like 1/2 pound to start,
20 reps, should feel a burn right before you end a set).

http://familydoctor.org/handouts/265.html

Well, okay, they have four but Number Two is redundant, imo but can't
hurt to do it!

Number 3 can be done lying on your back with two weights at once,
crossing your stomach and returning to the floor, backs of the hand
touching the floor.

Tennis is a very high velocity joint action at the upper arm (humeral)
joint and fatigue (misfiring and lack of coordination that ensues) is
a common factor in RC injuries.

I used to believe that additional, PT type of RC work was necessary in
addition to a strength program, but, over the years, I had no
difference in velocities gained (performance) or rate of injuries
(prevention) with or without auxiliary RC programs.

Lift well, eat less, walk fast, live long.

Oooh, I like that!

Jim Chinnis said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

this is a common injury because many of the weight
room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
joint.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Not common at all. ime.

Quoted message said:

Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.

I don't know the stats, one versus the other.

Quoted message said:

I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises.

How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.

Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
when there is no pain and full range of movement? An MRI?
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.

Jim Chinnis said:

Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
when there is no pain and full range of movement?

Nothing. How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged
or weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain
response.

Quoted message said:

An MRI?

Ain't gonna get one of those until you see the ortho at least twice,
after rehab, after anti-inflammatoires, after an X-ray , after two
examinations and, possibly, after a second opinion.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
when there is no pain and full range of movement?

Nothing.

We appear to agree, then.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Jim Chinnis said:

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
when there is no pain and full range of movement?

Nothing.

We appear to agree, then.

Not at all.

You said:

"I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight
training without first addressing the health and strength of the cuff.
If it feels fine, I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening
exercises.

I disagreed and still do:

"How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response."

Pete is coming off an injury. How it feels is secondary to how it is
diagnosed, what pathologies still exist.

He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
is bad advice.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.

Harvest Mu_n <[email hidden]> wrote in part:

Quoted message said:

Pete is coming off an injury. How it feels is secondary to how it is
diagnosed, what pathologies still exist.

He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
is bad advice.

It's always better to see a physician after an injury to the cuff. But that
can't be done here.

I think we agree whether you think so or not.
--
Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA

Jim Chinnis said:

Quoted message said:

He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
is bad advice.

It's always better to see a physician after an injury to the cuff. But that
can't be done here.

Nowhere did I read that Pete couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't go to an
ortho.

Quoted message said:

I think we agree whether you think so or not.

I don't think so.

Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.