Smart Money Mag. Lipitor Article

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

On stands now.

Includes some statistics I had not heard before.

Guess they are not going to give the article
away, but here is their website:
http://www.smartmoney.com/mag/

Here is the introduction to the article given
there:
"The Lipitor Dilemma By Eleanor Laise
"Without a doubt, Lipitor saves lives. But as
an alarming number of patients have linked
the best-selling drug to memory loss and
crippling muscle pain, we ask, is America
overdosing on Lipitor? "

If she researched it thoroughly, why would
she not have doubts about Lipitor's ability
to save lives? We know that, "LIPITOR has not
been shown to prevent heart disease or heart
attacks." by the manufacturer's own
admission, on their website.

What research does she cite about Lipitor's
ability to "save lives?"

How many patients does it take to have an
"alarming number?" Under the hippocratic
oath, would one not be alarming enough?

Who is going to weigh the benefits against
the adversities?

A.L.

Quoted message said:

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

On stands now.

Includes some statistics I had not heard before.

What I don't quite understand is why, after experiencing extreme
weakness, aches, pains and other issues within a few months of
starting Lipitor those profiled in the article would continue to take
it, sometimes for years! Kathleen Socha ...."suffered such severe
muscle pain that she barely left her home for weeks." Isn't that when
you call your doctor and say "I cannot continue taking this med"?

A few years ago, my doctor prescribed Lipitor to me - I had been
taking Pravachol. Within two weeks I experienced very annoying
muscular pain in my legs. I called my doctor and he had me stop taking
Lipitor immediately. The pain went away. I went back to Pravachol.
Lipitor became a pill on my list of drugs not to take.

I predict that Pfizer will release lower-dosage tabs (even though they
say they won't) and they will add C0-Q10 deficiency to the warning
label (like they do in Canada). It is possible, I suppose, that if
this article generates enough heat and many more people come foward
with issues that Pfizer might have to take it off the shelves..

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

On stands now.

Includes some statistics I had not heard before.

Guess they are not going to give the article
away, but here is their website:
http://www.smartmoney.com/mag/

Here is the introduction to the article given
there:
"The Lipitor Dilemma By Eleanor Laise
"Without a doubt, Lipitor saves lives. But as
an alarming number of patients have linked
the best-selling drug to memory loss and
crippling muscle pain, we ask, is America
overdosing on Lipitor? "

If she researched it thoroughly, why would
she not have doubts about Lipitor's ability
to save lives? We know that, "LIPITOR has not
been shown to prevent heart disease or heart
attacks." by the manufacturer's own
admission, on their website.

What research does she cite about Lipitor's
ability to "save lives?"

How many patients does it take to have an
"alarming number?" Under the hippocratic
oath, would one not be alarming enough?

Who is going to weigh the benefits against
the adversities?

A.L.

Al said: Who is going to weigh the benefits against the adversities?

Why, Pfizer's shareholders, Al. The very people who benefited from the
bad old Lipitor, and will continue to benefit with Pfizer's new
lipitor-plus drug, now in the pipeline. Wall Street Journal, Forbes et
al have already advised Pfizer shareholders and investors there is no
more money to be made with the old lipitor cash cow, but to look for
the new lipitor-plus drug currently being tested.

Expect pharma detailers to extoll the virtues of this new lipitor, Al,
'guaranteed' not to do the bad things the old lipitor did. Expect
shareholders to ante up Al, and to weigh the benefits (theirs) against
the adversities (yours).

Also willing to weigh their benefit against your adversities will be
holders of pension funds invested in Pfizer (and other pharmas). It's
a sad irony that some of those very shareholders would indeed defend
the rights of the marketplace to "weigh the benefits."

Goodnight Al.

[email hidden]

(Listener) said:

What I don't quite understand is why, after experiencing extreme
weakness, aches, pains and other issues within a few months of
starting Lipitor those profiled in the article would continue to take
it, sometimes for years! Kathleen Socha ...."suffered such severe
muscle pain that she barely left her home for weeks." Isn't that when
you call your doctor and say "I cannot continue taking this med"?

Agree. I gave it 5 weeks and did just that.

While "blame the patient" may be an entertaining pastime, it is foolish
speculation.

Check the DIT message board for many first-hand reports of people asking in
despair if anyone else had experienced side-effects from statins.

Over and over they report being told that there is definitely no possible
correlation. No way that the memory loss, amnesia, muscle wasting, muscle
weakness, cognitive problems, aphasia, not one of these symptoms could
possibly be related to the statins. Several people were threatened by their
doctors that, should they bring it up one more time, the doctor would refuse
to treat them ever again.

I personally have a hospital release with the cardiologist's release
instructions, having performed an angiogram and carotid artery scan to
eliminate mini-strokes and congestion as the reason for the chest pain and
memory loss and sudden collapses. The instructions were in reply to a
written question, could the symptoms be strokes or drug side-effects? The
hospital instructions state that the cardiologist said that, no matter what
the side effects the drug is working and should not be halted.

Glad for you that you decided to abandon the drug despite doctor's orders.
Others believed the doctor, and, 6 years ago, there was little information
on the side-effects, and certainly no published FAQ on the adverse effects.
Now, people have more information with which to challenge the doctor.

My question to both of you: Did your doctor offer to look into the pain you
developed? Did the doctor decide to find out the cause and then treat? Or
did you just make the change and satisfy yourself that it was related?

Did your doctor or you file an adverse effects report with the FDA? If not,
why not? Why allow others to go through what you experienced?

<Chuck@MI.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Listener) said:

What I don't quite understand is why, after experiencing extreme
weakness, aches, pains and other issues within a few months of
starting Lipitor those profiled in the article would continue to take
it, sometimes for years! Kathleen Socha ...."suffered such severe
muscle pain that she barely left her home for weeks." Isn't that when
you call your doctor and say "I cannot continue taking this med"?

Agree. I gave it 5 weeks and did just that.

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 03:11:33 GMT, "Sharon Hope" <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

While "blame the patient" may be an entertaining pastime, it is foolish
speculation.

My intent was certainly NOT for entertainment and my question was not
foolish. And I'm not arguing that some statins can't possibly have
all sorts of side-effects.

Quoted message said:

Check the DIT message board for many first-hand reports of people asking in
despair if anyone else had experienced side-effects from statins.

Over and over they report being told that there is definitely no possible
correlation. No way that the memory loss, amnesia, muscle wasting, muscle
weakness, cognitive problems, aphasia, not one of these symptoms could
possibly be related to the statins. Several people were threatened by their
doctors that, should they bring it up one more time, the doctor would refuse
to treat them ever again.

DOCTORS ARE NOT GODS. If a doctor ever spoke to ME this way I would
refuse to allow that doctor to treat ME. I would be out the door very
quickly.

Quoted message said:

I personally have a hospital release with the cardiologist's release
instructions, having performed an angiogram and carotid artery scan to
eliminate mini-strokes and congestion as the reason for the chest pain and
memory loss and sudden collapses. The instructions were in reply to a
written question, could the symptoms be strokes or drug side-effects? The
hospital instructions state that the cardiologist said that, no matter what
the side effects the drug is working and should not be halted.

"No matter what the side-effects"? It sounds to me like you may have
more of a case against the DOCTOR than the medication!

Quoted message said:

Glad for you that you decided to abandon the drug despite doctor's orders.
Others believed the doctor, and, 6 years ago, there was little information
on the side-effects, and certainly no published FAQ on the adverse effects.
Now, people have more information with which to challenge the doctor.

That still doesn't mitigate my point. If a person is prescribed a
medication (and is not in a life-threatening state at the time) and
shortly after taking the medication develops serious side-effects (I
would say that chest pain and memory loss and sudden collapses and
severe muscle pain are serious side-effects!) I think it's safe to say
that STOPPING the med is a common sense thing to do, no matter what
the doctor says.

Quoted message said:

My question to both of you: Did your doctor offer to look into the pain you
developed? Did the doctor decide to find out the cause and then treat? Or
did you just make the change and satisfy yourself that it was related?

Yes and yes. We found the cause - it was the Lipitor.

Quoted message said:

Did your doctor or you file an adverse effects report with the FDA? If not,
why not? Why allow others to go through what you experienced?

I have no idea if he did that. As I said, the side-effect I
experienced was well-known and contraindicated.

Quoted message said:

<Chuck@MI.> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

(Listener) said:

What I don't quite understand is why, after experiencing extreme
weakness, aches, pains and other issues within a few months of
starting Lipitor those profiled in the article would continue to take
it, sometimes for years! Kathleen Socha ...."suffered such severe
muscle pain that she barely left her home for weeks." Isn't that when
you call your doctor and say "I cannot continue taking this med"?

Agree. I gave it 5 weeks and did just that.

Good for you.

Sharon Hope said:

While "blame the patient" may be an entertaining pastime, it is foolish
speculation.

Check the DIT message board for many first-hand reports of people asking in
despair if anyone else had experienced side-effects from statins.

Over and over they report being told that there is definitely no possible
correlation. No way that the memory loss, amnesia, muscle wasting, muscle
weakness, cognitive problems, aphasia, not one of these symptoms could
possibly be related to the statins. Several people were threatened by their
doctors that, should they bring it up one more time, the doctor would refuse
to treat them ever again.

Where did the doctors get their
misinformation? Their "uninformation?" Why do
they lack skepticism? They are or will be
patients, themselves, one day.

Had speculated in other threads that
misinformation might abound because of the
hidden, behind the scenes, interactions
between drug marketers and physicians. The
people who take physicians out to dinner,
TPWTPOTD, must be partially responsible. They
may very well be behaving appropriately in
the sense of our generally free and open
markets, but, in so doing, they may be
causing unnecessary harm to patients for
which they may never be held accountable.

Stumbled on a couple of websites which deal
in these matters and even link to other
websites.

They are:

http://www.healthyskepticism.org/

A quote from this one:
"Promotion which exaggerates benefits and
glosses over risks, threatens optimal
treatment."

and

http://www.nofreelunch.org/

A quote from this one:
"Send us your drug company pens, we'll
replace them with ours. No questions asked!"
(Like a needle exchange programme.)

The easiest legal drug money appears to be
made in the treatment of chronic conditions
where only a small fraction of those treated
would be expected to benefit. There is no way
to separate the thousands that may benefit
from the millions who will not. There may be
no incentives to correct this situation by
systematically reducing the treatment of
those people who will never benefit. No
physician will ever know if any particular
individual has benefited from treatment of
chronic hypertension or "chronic
hypercholesterolemia." As long as he does not
self-deny, he will always know when his
treatment has caused harm. Being so lucrative
a market, more chronic conditions are bound
be be discovered in the future. Treat
thousands for the possible benefit of tens,
millions for thousands.

Drug marketers may have the same instincts as
used car sales people by emphasizing, even
exaggerating, the positives and ignoring or
downplaying the negatives. Getting the
interaction between doctor and drug companies
out in the open may help to eventually
improve drug information and improve drug
usage. Perhaps this, the internet, can claim
some credit for helping us to go in that
direction.

.... Let the people have the truth.....

Any ideas as to why doctors are so lacking of
skepticism? Will they or can they ever admit
to having been misled? Cannot accept that
they be naïve.

A.L.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>>>>>> snipped <<<<<<<<<<<<,,

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

On stands now.

Includes some statistics I had not heard before.

Read the article. Interesting and interesting
reference to a book included there.

Here is the description of the book from our
university's library system:

Start Quote
====================================================================

Author: Cohen, Jay S.
Title: Over dose : the case against the drug
companies : prescription drugs, side effects,
and your health / Jay S. Cohen.
Published: New York : Jeremy P
Tarcher/Putnam, c2001.
Description :xiv, 318 p. ; 24 cm.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references
(p. 255-308) and index.
Contents:
The race to the bottom -- How drug-company
policies harm people -- How drug-company
policies cause problems for 50 to 75 percent
of patients taking Prozac -- When new drugs
are approved, the experiment is just
beginning, and you may be part of it : Viagra
-- How drug-company policies harm women --
Why 50 to 75 percent of people quit taking
their cholesterol-lowering medications -- Why
50-75 percent of people quit taking their
medications for high blood pressure -- Why
seniors are at the greatest risk -- How the
drug companies slant drug research, limit
information to doctors and consumers, and
secure high profits -- What the drug
companies must do to reverse the side-effect
epidemic-- but will they? -- What's wrong
with the FDA? And what can be done about it?
-- What the FDA shouldn't do : why we need an
independent medication safety monitoring
system -- Doctors, drugs, and patients -- How
to avoid side effects and use medications
safely.
Subjects: Drugs--Side effects.
Pharmaceutical industry.
ISBN:1585421235

End Quote
====================================================================

Interestingly, this volume finds itself in
our "Science and Technology Library."

The medical campus is some seven city miles
from here and their library does not have a
copy.

Several hospitals are also included on our
searchable catalog, but they also do not have
copies. On this campus, pharmacy and nursing
staff and students might avail themselves of
this book. Other than that, interested
people, such as myself. It is presently
checked out, but I'll try to get it and read
it. Most probably more evidence that an
overhaul of the drug system is required to
better ensure patient safety.

For excerpts from the book see:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/6/overdose.htm
and,
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/9/overdose.htm

A.L.

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

On stands now.

Includes some statistics I had not heard before.

Read the article. Interesting and interesting
reference to a book included there.

Here is the description of the book from our
university's library system:

Start Quote
====================================================================

Author: Cohen, Jay S.
Title: Over dose : the case against the drug
companies : prescription drugs, side effects,
and your health / Jay S. Cohen.
Published: New York : Jeremy P
Tarcher/Putnam, c2001.
Description :xiv, 318 p. ; 24 cm.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references
(p. 255-308) and index.
Contents:
The race to the bottom -- How drug-company
policies harm people -- How drug-company
policies cause problems for 50 to 75 percent
of patients taking Prozac -- When new drugs
are approved, the experiment is just
beginning, and you may be part of it : Viagra
-- How drug-company policies harm women --
Why 50 to 75 percent of people quit taking
their cholesterol-lowering medications -- Why
50-75 percent of people quit taking their
medications for high blood pressure -- Why
seniors are at the greatest risk -- How the
drug companies slant drug research, limit
information to doctors and consumers, and
secure high profits -- What the drug
companies must do to reverse the side-effect
epidemic-- but will they? -- What's wrong
with the FDA? And what can be done about it?
-- What the FDA shouldn't do : why we need an
independent medication safety monitoring
system -- Doctors, drugs, and patients -- How
to avoid side effects and use medications
safely.
Subjects: Drugs--Side effects.
Pharmaceutical industry.
ISBN:1585421235

End Quote
====================================================================

Interestingly, this volume finds itself in
our "Science and Technology Library."

The medical campus is some seven city miles
from here and their library does not have a
copy.

Several hospitals are also included on our
searchable catalog, but they also do not have
copies. On this campus, pharmacy and nursing
staff and students might avail themselves of
this book. Other than that, interested
people, such as myself. It is presently
checked out, but I'll try to get it and read
it. Most probably more evidence that an
overhaul of the drug system is required to
better ensure patient safety.

For excerpts from the book see:
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/6/overdose.htm
and,
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/9/overdose.htm

A.L.

Al

For a subscription to Jay Cohen's newsletter:
http://www.medicationsense.com/over_dose.html

MFG

[email hidden] (mfg) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Sharon Hope said:

Anyone see the article on Lipitor adverse effects?

Smart Money Magazine, November issue.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Read the article. Interesting and interesting
reference to a book included there.

Author: Cohen, Jay S.
Title: Over dose : the case against the drug
companies : prescription drugs, side effects,
and your health / Jay S. Cohen.
Published: New York : Jeremy P
Tarcher/Putnam, c2001.
Description :xiv, 318 p. ; 24 cm.
Notes: Includes bibliographical references
(p. 255-308) and index.
Contents:
The race to the bottom -- How drug-company
policies harm people

For an e-subscription to Jay Cohen's free newsletter:
http://www.medicationsense.com/over_dose.html

MFG