Non-pharmacological treatment of high blood pressure

Very good job. Did you also lose weight? My BP was also high -
140/90 but is now 110/70 without BP meds. For me, the secret was to
give up the "Western" diet that Harvard says is responsible for up to
80% of heart disease. Also, to get over one hour a day of exercise and
to lose weight (176 to 154). FYI - moderate drinking can lower BP
slightly. Moderate for men - one or two drinks a day, for women, one
drink a day. Note - ideal BP is 115/75 - so keep watching your BP.
To lower BP check out DASH diet.

[email hidden] (Kip) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A month ago I happened to check my blood pressure and found that it
was around 170/105. The next day my doctor confirmed it at 170/109.
I'm 41, slim, don't smoke, don't drink more than one alcholic drink a
day. Both my parents have been treated for hyptertension with meds.
I generally avoid drugs (and my doctor knows this), but I figured he'd
insist on getting my BP down with some prescription. So I was
surprised when he said it was treatable and sent me on my way with
with an admonishment to watch the salt and get more exercise. Now, I
thought I had already been doing this since my BP has been high for
many years. But I more diligently read sodium content on labels, ate
more dark meat fish, loaded up on fruits, nuts and veggies, and most
importantly, exercised every day. The exercise I think is the most
important thing, especially since I sit at a desk most of the day. I
huff and puff and sweat for at least a half hour. End result is that
now my BP is at 130/75. And I feel much more energized and
alert. So if anyone has doubts about the efficacy of diet and
exercise to control hyptertension, it can work. Of course, discuss it
with your doctor.

Thanks, yes, I'd read about the DASH diet and have been using it
as well as adhering to a more Mediterranean mix of foods (more
veggies and fruits, more fish, bake my own whole grain bread, hardly any
red meat). Been drinking one red wine daily. And I don't miss the
salt. I don't have much weight to lose (I'm 6'😉, but went from 165 to 159.

Brad Sheppard said:

Very good job. Did you also lose weight? My BP was also high -
140/90 but is now 110/70 without BP meds. For me, the secret was to
give up the "Western" diet that Harvard says is responsible for up to
80% of heart disease. Also, to get over one hour a day of exercise and
to lose weight (176 to 154). FYI - moderate drinking can lower BP
slightly. Moderate for men - one or two drinks a day, for women, one
drink a day. Note - ideal BP is 115/75 - so keep watching your BP.
To lower BP check out DASH diet.

[email hidden] (Kip) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

A month ago I happened to check my blood pressure and found that it
was around 170/105. The next day my doctor confirmed it at 170/109.
I'm 41, slim, don't smoke, don't drink more than one alcholic drink a
day. Both my parents have been treated for hyptertension with meds.
I generally avoid drugs (and my doctor knows this), but I figured he'd
insist on getting my BP down with some prescription. So I was
surprised when he said it was treatable and sent me on my way with
with an admonishment to watch the salt and get more exercise. Now, I
thought I had already been doing this since my BP has been high for
many years. But I more diligently read sodium content on labels, ate
more dark meat fish, loaded up on fruits, nuts and veggies, and most
importantly, exercised every day. The exercise I think is the most
important thing, especially since I sit at a desk most of the day. I
huff and puff and sweat for at least a half hour. End result is that
now my BP is at 130/75. And I feel much more energized and
alert. So if anyone has doubts about the efficacy of diet and
exercise to control hyptertension, it can work. Of course, discuss it
with your doctor.

Thanks to both of you, Kipp and Brad, for
this information. Very encouraging.

I was put on BP meds with a 24 hour average
of 133/83. During the daytime it was often
more like 155/88. Did consider this to be
more like "exaggerated alertness" and was
smoking about 23 cigs per day. Been on 150 mg
Avapro and 12.5 mg HCTZ for over two years.
Been walking about 200 km (125 mi) per month
for more than two years.

Because my wife has been on her own diet for
several years, I get to experiment. In recent
months, added brown rice to my diet. Thought
I would try it because brown rice has
nutrients that white rice does not have, and,
prior to the development of medication, a
rice diet was used to curb high blood
pressure. Also, to the two per week brown
rice servings, added some Mediterranean
ingredients like both kinds of olives, olive
oil, eggs, and tuna. Kidney beans, green
beans and peas round out the recipe. A little
bit of onion is included and the end result
is something quite nutritious and palatable,
full of interesting flavours and textures.

Saw the doctor on Oct. 1. He took my BP as
usual then had me move to the examining table
where he had his mercury manometer. After
measuring it again he told me 130/72,
probably get less than that at home, like
120/??, and cut HCTZ dosage in half, to one
quarter of a tablet. (Had not been measuring
BP at home for quite some time.) The sudden
move to the different location will certainly
have increased my BP to some extent.

I know the drugs subtly effect my sleep
cycle, probably the dreaming, and therefore
subtly effect daytime disposition. I know
this because I went off of them on two
occasions and things returned to normal.

Tomorrow I see the doctor for a follow up.
Hopefully I am doing something right and my
drugs can be further reduced.

One other thing, since I started all the
walking my legs have gotten noticeably
heavier. When doing sit-ups, I can do a
gradual lift of the torso (no sudden jerk
required) as one can do when the ankles are
held in place. Leg muscles might have some
influence on blood pressure regulation.

Regarding salt: A Dr. Clarence Grimm of
Milwaukee has gone on record as stating that
50% of Caucasians and 75% of African
Americans are salt sensitive. I am one of the
former, stayed away from salt for 13 days,
until celery stalks tasted salty, with no
difference in BP. Therefore, not salt
sensitive, but I do not over do it.

A.L. 55 y/o, 77Kg, 175 cm (170 lb, 5'9"😉
Drugs when necessary, but not necessarily
drugs!

Al. Lohse said:

Thanks to both of you, Kipp and Brad, for
this information. Very encouraging.

I was put on BP meds with a 24 hour average
of 133/83. During the daytime it was often
more like 155/88. Did consider this to be
more like "exaggerated alertness" and was
smoking about 23 cigs per day. Been on 150 mg
Avapro and 12.5 mg HCTZ for over two years.
Been walking about 200 km (125 mi) per month
for more than two years.

Because my wife has been on her own diet for
several years, I get to experiment. In recent
months, added brown rice to my diet. Thought
I would try it because brown rice has
nutrients that white rice does not have, and,
prior to the development of medication, a
rice diet was used to curb high blood
pressure. Also, to the two per week brown
rice servings, added some Mediterranean
ingredients like both kinds of olives, olive
oil, eggs, and tuna. Kidney beans, green
beans and peas round out the recipe. A little
bit of onion is included and the end result
is something quite nutritious and palatable,
full of interesting flavours and textures.

Saw the doctor on Oct. 1. He took my BP as
usual then had me move to the examining table
where he had his mercury manometer. After
measuring it again he told me 130/72,
probably get less than that at home, like
120/??, and cut HCTZ dosage in half, to one
quarter of a tablet. (Had not been measuring
BP at home for quite some time.) The sudden
move to the different location will certainly
have increased my BP to some extent.

I know the drugs subtly effect my sleep
cycle, probably the dreaming, and therefore
subtly effect daytime disposition. I know
this because I went off of them on two
occasions and things returned to normal.

Tomorrow I see the doctor for a follow up.
Hopefully I am doing something right and my
drugs can be further reduced.

One other thing, since I started all the
walking my legs have gotten noticeably
heavier. When doing sit-ups, I can do a
gradual lift of the torso (no sudden jerk
required) as one can do when the ankles are
held in place. Leg muscles might have some
influence on blood pressure regulation.

Regarding salt: A Dr. Clarence Grimm of
Milwaukee has gone on record as stating that
50% of Caucasians and 75% of African
Americans are salt sensitive. I am one of the
former, stayed away from salt for 13 days,
until celery stalks tasted salty, with no
difference in BP. Therefore, not salt
sensitive, but I do not over do it.

A.L. 55 y/o, 77Kg, 175 cm (170 lb, 5'9"😉
Drugs when necessary, but not necessarily
drugs!

Your blood pressure should become better (requiring less medications)
the closer your weight got down to 145 lbs.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Dr. Andrew B. Chung said:

"Al. Lohse" wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> snipped >>>>>>>>>>>>>.

A.L. 55 y/o, 77Kg, 175 cm (170 lb, 5'9"😉
Drugs when necessary, but not necessarily
drugs!

Your blood pressure should become better (requiring less medications)
the closer your weight got down to 145 lbs.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com/

Thanks for your suggestion, but I have sort
of been there. Was at 158 lb and dropping
when I got my heart attack. Stopping smoking
at that time nearly 42 months ago can easily
explain 10 lb of weight gain, without even
changing eating habits. The other 2 lb may be
the buildup of muscle mass from all the
walking. I did weigh about 145 when 18 y.o.
and full height. Think I'd look anorexic at
that weight at this age, sagging, but 155
should be a reasonable target.

BTW there were no BP benefits for dropping
weight from about 175 to 158 for me.

Will try subtle diet changes to see if I can
get my weight down to the 150's again. No
panic to try something organized.

A.L.

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to both of you, Kipp and Brad, for
this information. Very encouraging.

I was put on BP meds with a 24 hour average
of 133/83. During the daytime it was often
more like 155/88. Did consider this to be
more like "exaggerated alertness" and was
smoking about 23 cigs per day. Been on 150 mg
Avapro and 12.5 mg HCTZ for over two years.
Been walking about 200 km (125 mi) per month
for more than two years.

I'm sorry Al, but I can't see for the life of me why you are
submitting yourself to a blood pressure medication. Your blood
pressure was NORMAL before you took HCTZ. You are falling victim to
the same sales tactics for hypertension pharmaceuticals that you are
so aware of and vigilant about vis a vis cholesterol.

I'm beginning to think this board is filled with a bunch of middle
aged male hypochondriacs. Who the hell takes their blood pressure
every day?

Al. Take the dog for a walk, then take the wife for a vacation. And
while you're at it, tell Chung et al to take a hike.

By Warren Bell, MD (reprinted with author permission)

Lost in all this heated discussion of OTC statin use is the whole
issue of the appropriate role of drugs as a treatment for what is
manifestly a disease of lifestyle in 95% of cases.
It is interesting to see that the FDA has, without comment, shifted
its ground (unless, of course, it was already there beforehand) to a
discussion of drug therapy in an utter therapeutic vacuum -- just what
the industry wants it to do! No mention of the relative value of
exercise, diet, stress, non-drug biological supplements or dietary
augmentation (e.g. garlic), or environmental influences (one scientist
proposed that heart attacks in Los Angeles on "bad air days" be called
'lung attacks' instead).
In the feeding frenzy around OTC vs Rx availability, we are losing our
sense of proportion, and along with it, our humanity. Here's a little
more evidence along these lines.
The latest issue of Nutrition Action, the newsletter of the Centre for
Science in the Public Interest, discusses the safety of supplements.
CSPI is a fine organization, founded out of Ralph Nader's many
anti-corporate activities, and usually quite enlightened and
hard-hitting in its perpective. Yet the CSPI, in this issue,
recommends that children and pregnant women avoid taking garlic and
soy isoflavones supplements "until more research is done". The article
does acknowledge that "most reactions are rare: in some cases they are
based on just one or two reports from physicians". But even allowing
for the modest difference in supplementary formulation vs food
sources, is this not amazing overkill?
There are dozens of reports of statins causing severe and even fatal
reactions. One member of this class, Bayer's Baycol, is off the market
because it was the worst of the lot, but the others all do this to
some degree -- it's inherent in their mode of action. They all deplete
stores of co-enzyme Q10, which is a critical metabolic element in a
wide variety of physiological processes.
How many people have turned up in a critical care setting with
"garlic-induced fulminant hepatitis", or "soy isoflavone-related
dementia"?! How many people end up in the ER with exercise-induced
renal failure? (I'm talking about exercise when "used as directed by
recognized experts"😉. How many folks haunt the ICU with
"square-dancing-related pulmonary fibrosis"? How about "music-induced
hyperkalemia"?
We're going nutty, driven by a corporate agenda that wants us to see
"a pill for every ill" as the only way to fly. OTC, Rx, coin-operated
machines, free give-aways -- industry doesn't care, as long as our
first thought, when we feel unwell, is to take a drug.
I believe there is a universal rule of biochemistry underlying all
this. Molecules (and the behaviours that produce them) that have been
around for a few million years, and tested empirically by billions of
people without discernible adverse effects beyond highly predictable
or nuisance ones (garlic breath, exercise-induced fatigue,
music-related procrastination, love-induced foolishness) are likely to
safe. Molecules invented a few months, years, or decades ago by a
person who's primary goal is to find a patentable substance that is
safe enough to make it through a mickey-mouse testing process onto the
market where it is likely to produce billions of dollars of profit --
such molecules are unlikely to be safe, and are potential causes of
"stealth" reactions that are unpredictable and dangerous.
I know there's always exceptions, but I believe the general rule still
holds.
And we haven't even mentioned the fact of the industrial world
siphoning most of the world's resources in order the create the
conditions of super-excess of everything that allow "diseases of
affluence" to happen in the first place, and also provide the
materials for a huge chemical industry to develop around it. And then
using force of arms or threat thereof to maintain this obscene
imbalance.

Zee said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to both of you, Kipp and Brad, for
this information. Very encouraging.

I was put on BP meds with a 24 hour average
of 133/83. During the daytime it was often
more like 155/88. Did consider this to be
more like "exaggerated alertness" and was
smoking about 23 cigs per day. Been on 150 mg
Avapro and 12.5 mg HCTZ for over two years.
Been walking about 200 km (125 mi) per month
for more than two years.

I'm sorry Al, but I can't see for the life of me why you are
submitting yourself to a blood pressure medication. Your blood
pressure was NORMAL before you took HCTZ. You are falling victim to
the same sales tactics for hypertension pharmaceuticals that you are
so aware of and vigilant about vis a vis cholesterol.

The similarities between hypertension and
"hypercholesterolemia" have certainly not
escaped me.

One good reason not to diagnose things
through the internet is because of incomplete
information. The 133/83 was let go by my
personal physician, but not by the young
nephrologist involved at the time. Kidneys
are involved. I urinated a painless bowl full
of blood six years ago! Did not have much
need for doctors before then. They always
fixed the little problems that I may have
had, always.

On cardiovascular considerations alone, the 1
in 850 stroke benefit, I would not take BP
meds at this time in my life, perhaps waiting
until after retirement, when a little mental
muddlement would not be so annoying.

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to think this board is filled with a bunch of middle
aged male hypochondriacs. Who the hell takes their blood pressure
every day?

No, it is a place to exchange some ideas. It
is most important for people who do not get
straight information and straight answers
from their local professionals. Many people
take their BP's many times per day,
especially those whose first encounter with
hypertension are exceedingly high pressures
like over 200/130 and the like.

Quoted message said:

Al. Take the dog for a walk, then take the wife for a vacation. And
while you're at it, tell Chung et al to take a hike.

Vacation. Don't you mean holiday? And, Zed,
not Zee, isn't it? Have a nice day. :-)

Yes, I should get on with my life, but I find
the learning experience here to be quite
stimulating.

Thank you for your input. In the human
condition, we can always find people worse
off than we are... seemingly always.

They gave me drugs to protect my kidneys,
which probably cause my heart attack. Then
they wanted to give me drugs to protect my
heart, which may damage my liver. I chose to
seek additional information. Oh yes, three
years ago there was no widespread talk about
the statins wrecking hearts and other
muscles, only that liver enzymes need to be
monitored.

A.L.

(Dr. Chung is a very important element in
this NG. No one need agree with him on a
continuing basis, but he is sharing his
considerable store of knowledge quite
generously. And, yes, he is a human being. We
humans do suffer from misconceptions from
time to time.)

Quoted message said:

<<<<<<<<snipped>>>>>>>>>>>>

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Zee said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Thanks to both of you, Kipp and Brad, for
this information. Very encouraging.

I was put on BP meds with a 24 hour average
of 133/83. During the daytime it was often
more like 155/88. Did consider this to be
more like "exaggerated alertness" and was
smoking about 23 cigs per day. Been on 150 mg
Avapro and 12.5 mg HCTZ for over two years.
Been walking about 200 km (125 mi) per month
for more than two years.

I'm sorry Al, but I can't see for the life of me why you are
submitting yourself to a blood pressure medication. Your blood
pressure was NORMAL before you took HCTZ. You are falling victim to
the same sales tactics for hypertension pharmaceuticals that you are
so aware of and vigilant about vis a vis cholesterol.

The similarities between hypertension and
"hypercholesterolemia" have certainly not
escaped me.

No disrespect meant to Dr. Chung. And vacation holiday skedjool,
shedual, zed, zee: whatever fits the bill/invoice. Check out
www.pbs.org/Frontline on pharmas/research/FDA. Also some timely info
there on antihypertensive care.

Zed/Zee
eh?

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Zee said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to think this board is filled with a bunch of middle
aged male hypochondriacs. Who the hell takes their blood pressure
every day?

No, it is a place to exchange some ideas. It
is most important for people who do not get
straight information and straight answers
from their local professionals.

Right.

http://groups.google.ca/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=b8ae8d6fa3e02c4b

Zee

Zee said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Zee said:

"Al. Lohse" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

I'm beginning to think this board is filled with a bunch of middle
aged male hypochondriacs. Who the hell takes their blood pressure
every day?

No, it is a place to exchange some ideas. It
is most important for people who do not get
straight information and straight answers
from their local professionals.

Right.

http://groups.google.ca/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&th=b8ae8d6fa3e02c4b

Zee

They might help each other out without having
to see a doctor and/or spend a night in a
sleep clinic. If their conditions were rare
or dangerous, one of the physicians would
surely intervene.

Not of interest to me, but, certainly, of
interest to some.

A.L. (Edgar Allen Poe instructs us to first
look under the floor boards.) :-)

Female, 50, 5'8", 155, both sides of family history with HBP, been on monopril
about 5 years, generic microzide added 2 months ago, have whitecoat
hypertension (up to 190 in emergency room for noncardiac problem), at BP follow
up appt. primary care doc last month told me I have labile hypertension.
Should I lose weight? Doctors have never implied I need to lose any weight and
in fact my old primary care said I look "trim". :/ Am looking to have minor
surgery done under local anesthetic and plan to also take oral valium. Would
30mg oral valium (not via IV) be enough to bring the whitecoat hypertension to
acceptable level for the surgery? Thanks for any replies

Sherry

[email hidden] (FreespiritedFem) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

Quoted message said:

Female, 50, 5'8", 155, both sides of family history with HBP, been on monopril
about 5 years, generic microzide added 2 months ago, have whitecoat
hypertension (up to 190 in emergency room for noncardiac problem), at BP follow
up appt. primary care doc last month told me I have labile hypertension.
Should I lose weight?

Your "ideal" body weight is 132 pounds (for BMI=20). You might be 23
pounds overweight. The closer your weight got to 132, the better your
blood pressure should be.

Quoted message said:

Doctors have never implied I need to lose any weight and
in fact my old primary care said I look "trim".

Looks can be deceptive.

Quoted message said:

:/ Am looking to have minor
surgery done under local anesthetic and plan to also take oral valium. Would
30mg oral valium (not via IV) be enough to bring the whitecoat hypertension to
acceptable level for the surgery?

If it is whitecoat, it should be.

Quoted message said:

Thanks for any replies

Sherry

You are welcome.

Humbly,

Andrew

--
Dr. Andrew B. Chung, MD/PhD
Board-Certified Cardiologist
http://www.heartmdphd.com