General fitness, health and nutrition · Public discussion

Revived Girl Baffles Medical Experts

Started by asfd · · Last activity · 22 posts · 512 views

Thread navigation

Jump through the discussion

Go to the original post, the replies on this page, or the latest preserved contribution.

Thread details

What we know about this thread

Original section
General fitness, health and nutrition
Published
15 November 2003
Last activity
20 November 2003
Original author
asfd
Posts
22
Discussion status
Public discussion
Total views
512
Views / 30 days
0

The navigation and discussion metadata provide context. Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Showing posts 1–20 of 22
Posts remain in their original chronological order.

Text size
  1. November 14, 2003
    Revived Girl Baffles Medical Experts
    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    FULLERTON, Calif. (AP) -- Detective Mike Kendrick began photographing
    the body of a little girl on an emergency room table for an
    investigation of a drowning.

    Then, through the lens, he saw her chest move. Just spasms, he
    thought. Then he saw it move again. And again.

    ``Am I seeing things? Does she look like she's breathing?'' Kendrick
    asked his partner.

    Less than an hour earlier, Kendrick had broken the news to the girl's
    mother that she had been pronounced dead by doctors. Minutes earlier,
    he stood by as the mother said goodbye to her daughter.

    But 20-month-old Mackayala Jespersen was indeed alive. On Friday, she
    was in serious condition at Children's Hospital of Orange County,
    where she was transferred after being revived.

    Her case has baffled hospital and emergency workers. They had
    struggled to revive her with CPR, breathing tubes, a heated blanket.
    How could they have missed the fact that the toddler was alive?

    The Medical Board of California has launched an inquiry into whether
    physician error played a role, although the state Department of Health
    Services already has found that Anaheim Memorial Hospital followed
    proper protocol.

    The girl's family declined to be interviewed by The Associated Press.

    On Friday, the girl was breathing without a ventilator but was not
    fully alert. She was moving her eyes and her body somewhat, hospital
    spokeswoman Denise Almazan said. Earlier in the week, one of the
    girl's doctors said brain scans showed no serious brain damage.

    Mackayala slipped out the back door of her family's home in Fullerton,
    about 30 miles south of Los Angeles, on Nov. 7. A family member found
    the girl floating face-down in the 52-degree water of the swimming
    pool shortly after 9 a.m., according to police reports and emergency
    workers.

    The girl's mother, Melissa Jespersen, placed a frantic 911 call.
    Minutes later, two police officers arrived and began performing
    cardiopulmonary resuscitation.

    ``We did CPR for six or seven minutes. It seemed like a million
    years,'' said one of the officers, Steve Rubio.

    At one point, Mackayala spit up water, or perhaps it was forced from
    her lungs by the chest compressions.

    Paramedics arrived and took Mackayala by ambulance to the hospital.

    Kendrick and his partner, Detective Brent Rebert, were driving to the
    Jespersen home when they got word that Mackayala had been pronounced
    dead at 10:06 a.m.

    At the home, Kendrick took the mother into her daughter's bedroom, sat
    her on the bed and told her the news. She went limp, fell to the floor
    and curled into a fetal position.

    ``The look on this mom's face was absolute horror and disbelief,'' he
    said.

    The two detectives put her in their car. ``All the way to the
    hospital, she kept saying, `This isn't true. God wouldn't take her at
    this age,''' Kendrick said.

    At Anaheim Memorial, the detectives escorted her into a room off the
    ER to say farewell to her daughter. A few minutes later, they began
    the routine of photographing the body and making notes.

    The heart monitor had a flat line. Her breathing tube had been
    disconnected. Her body was still wrapped in a heating blanket that had
    apparently been used to try to raise her body temperature. By all
    appearances, Mackayala was dead.

    Then, at 10:45 a.m. -- 39 minutes after she had been pronounced dead
    -- her chest appeared to spasm. At first, the detectives thought it
    was releasing gas -- a natural process after death. But the spasms
    continued and became longer.

    ``It looks like she's breathing,'' Kendrick told his partner. ``Go and
    get somebody.''

    Rebert returned with a nurse, who put a stethoscope to the girl's
    chest. Doctors raced in. Machines were turned back on. Mackayala had a
    pulse. The two police officers shook their heads in disbelief.

    Kendrick had the job of telling Mackayala's mother that her daughter
    was alive. This time, she fell to her knees and thanked God.

    Three days later, Kendrick and another officer stopped by the hospital
    to visit Mackayala. ``We were a little bit worried about how they
    would react to us. But we couldn't stay away,'' he said.

    He got a hug from Mackayala's mother.

    ``She asked if I would come back and visit Mackayala when she comes
    home,'' Kendrick said. ``I said sure.''

    ===============================================

  2. The last I heard, some four or six days after the drowning event, the
    girl was showing signs of voluntary movement. I'm afraid the rest of
    the story is, the oxygen deprivation to her brain broke its
    developmental chain; and she's going to mature into a retarded adult.
    This will of course, not make the news.

    I recall an episode in ER in which a physician revived a person who
    had been pronounced, and the consequences were discussed there. Also,
    an episode on Public Television about a girl child who had fallen into
    an icy stream and was lost in a drain system. She was found and
    revived but was handicapped in her later development.

    Was it really so nice this child survived? I'd sure like to think so
    but I'm glad I'm not involved in this.

    Cheers -- Martha Adams

  3. (Martha H Adams) said:

    The last I heard, some four or six days after the drowning event, the
    girl was showing signs of voluntary movement. I'm afraid the rest of
    the story is, the oxygen deprivation to her brain broke its
    developmental chain; and she's going to mature into a retarded adult.
    This will of course, not make the news.

    It never does. The news media has no interest in reality.

    Quoted message said:

    I recall an episode in ER

    Please don't believe a single thing you see on that show. It is pure
    fantasy.

    Quoted message said:

    Was it really so nice this child survived? I'd sure like to think so
    but I'm glad I'm not involved in this.

    No, it probably won't be so nice. Being so young, it's hard to say how much
    brain function she'll recover, and it would be wonderful if she continued
    her miracle performance, but it's unlikely she'll survive the long-term as
    anything more than a devastating expense and a sad example of modern
    medicine's ability to keep all the organs functioning except the one that
    counts. I pity her, her parents, and all those involved with her care.

  4. Carey Gregory said:
    (Martha H Adams) said:

    Was it really so nice this child survived? I'd sure like to think so
    but I'm glad I'm not involved in this.

    No, it probably won't be so nice. Being so young, it's hard to say how much
    brain function she'll recover, and it would be wonderful if she continued
    her miracle performance, but it's unlikely she'll survive the long-term as
    anything more than a devastating expense and a sad example of modern
    medicine's ability to keep all the organs functioning except the one that
    counts. I pity her, her parents, and all those involved with her care.

    And perhaps, if she ends up leading a pitiful long-term existence,
    confined to a wheelchair, drooling on herself, being fed by a tube,
    the new governor Arnold will pull a Jeb Bush and declare that she must
    be kept alive no matter what anyone else thinks might be ethical.

    PF

  5. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    And perhaps, if she ends up leading a pitiful long-term existence,
    confined to a wheelchair, drooling on herself, being fed by a tube,
    the new governor Arnold will pull a Jeb Bush and declare that she must
    be kept alive no matter what anyone else thinks might be ethical.

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more than
    the say-so of someone who will gain financially and relationally by
    their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Always a good reason to have a living will in place. Terry Schiavo's
    parents are obviously being optimistic, but I also wouldn't want my
    husband to be able to kill me because he found me inconvenient.

    Michelle
    Flutist

    --
    Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
    Drift as I'm singing to you
    I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
    And holding you, I'm smiling, too
    Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
    Holding you, I'm smiling, too
    -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]

  6. Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more than
    the say-so of someone who will gain financially and relationally by
    their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Just a wee bit of hyperbole, yes? It takes considerably more than the
    say-so of a single person.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more than
    the say-so of someone who will gain financially and relationally by
    their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Just a wee bit of hyperbole, yes? It takes considerably more than the
    say-so of a single person.

    The only reason it's being considered it because the husband is
    saying "It's what she wants." We only have HIS word for that.

    Michelle
    Flutist

    --
    Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
    Drift as I'm singing to you
    I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
    And holding you, I'm smiling, too
    Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
    Holding you, I'm smiling, too
    -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]

  8. [email hidden] (PF Riley) wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    And perhaps, if she ends up leading a pitiful long-term existence,
    confined to a wheelchair, drooling on herself, being fed by a tube,
    the new governor Arnold will pull a Jeb Bush and declare that she must
    be kept alive no matter what anyone else thinks might be ethical.

    Yes, I have always felt that one can not really understand ethics until
    they have killed someone.

    -TOE

    "Saddam is getting Nigerium from Uranus."
    -Mark Steyn

    Quoted message said:

    PF

  9. "PF Riley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...
    ..
    :
    : And perhaps, if she ends up leading a pitiful long-term existence,
    : confined to a wheelchair, drooling on herself, being fed by a tube,
    : the new governor Arnold will pull a Jeb Bush and declare that she must
    : be kept alive no matter what anyone else thinks might be ethical.
    :
    so if the government insists on keeping me alive while in a vegetative coma
    indefinitely, i demand i be read an entire copy of a major newspaper every
    day, from front to back including all advertisements. this way if i come
    out of said coma i'll be up to date on all of the events i will have missed
    over the years i was in said coma! don't just wave balloons in my face like
    you would to a 2 year old!

  10. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michelle J. Haines said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden]
    says...

    Quoted message said:


    And perhaps, if she ends up leading a pitiful long-term existence,
    confined to a wheelchair, drooling on herself, being fed by a tube,
    the new governor Arnold will pull a Jeb Bush and declare that she must
    be kept alive no matter what anyone else thinks might be ethical.

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more than
    the say-so of someone who will gain financially and relationally by
    their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Always a good reason to have a living will in place. Terry Schiavo's
    parents are obviously being optimistic, but I also wouldn't want my
    husband to be able to kill me because he found me inconvenient.

    Michelle
    Flutist

    there seems to be evidence that the husband in this case sought for many
    years to find rehab for his wife -- that he tried a number of suggested
    new treatments etc etc -- In other words, he did his best to give her a
    shot at life and has found -- and doctors agree -- that she is gone.

    What is the motive of the parents in maintaining their daughter [at
    public expense presumably since they claim the lawsuit money is gone] as
    a vegetable indefinately? It sounds like they have allowed themselves
    to become political puppets of interest groups and that they are
    motivated by spite against the husband. What good do they think it will
    do Terri?

    none of us knows these people [so anything we say is based on what we
    read and assumptions we are making -- and could be off base ] -- but
    the court had a chance to look at the evidence and the people involved
    -- being kept 'alive' like this indefinately would be my personal
    nightmare -- would you want it for yourself? They are my pick for
    intrusive nightmare parents of the year.

  11. Michelle J. Haines said:

    The only reason it's being considered it because the husband is
    saying "It's what she wants." We only have HIS word for that.

    Wants? She has no wants. She has no opinions, thoughts, feelings, or
    awareness of anything at all. She is gone. She died years ago.

    And to be blunt about it, what does it really matter what she wanted?
    Keeping her body functioning serves no one. Not the woman who used to
    inhabit that body, not her family, and not the public. Even if she did want
    to bankrupt her family and deprive others of scarce resources to maintain
    her body's biological functions indefinitely, that desire is selfish,
    unreasonable, and comes at a huge cost to the living. No one should be able
    to demand that their body be maintained as some sort of biological temple at
    society's expense. If they want such an arrangement, they should make plans
    and pay for it in advance.

  12. Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more
    than the say-so of someone who will gain financially and
    relationally by their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Always a good reason to have a living will in place. Terry
    Schiavo's parents are obviously being optimistic, but I also
    wouldn't want my husband to be able to kill me because he found
    me inconvenient.

    I think you're substantially exaggerating Terry's husband's sins in
    that case, and substantially underestimating the irrationality of
    the hope held by her parents, painful as this situation is for them.

  13. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michelle J. Haines said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more than
    the say-so of someone who will gain financially and relationally by
    their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Just a wee bit of hyperbole, yes? It takes considerably more than the
    say-so of a single person.

    The only reason it's being considered it because the husband is
    saying "It's what she wants." We only have HIS word for that.

    Michelle
    Flutist

    It's my understanding that the court that made the decision had more to
    go on than that.

    It certainly is what *I* would want in her position.

    meh
    --
    Children won't care how much you know until they know how much you care

  14. In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more
    than the say-so of someone who will gain financially and
    relationally by their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Always a good reason to have a living will in place. Terry
    Schiavo's parents are obviously being optimistic, but I also
    wouldn't want my husband to be able to kill me because he found
    me inconvenient.

    I think you're substantially exaggerating Terry's husband's sins in
    that case, and substantially underestimating the irrationality of
    the hope held by her parents, painful as this situation is for them.

    For a man who has money in a trust for her rehabilitation that she
    never received, who just had a baby with a new girlfriend, and
    suddenly it's time to end it all, even though she's been in this
    state for ten years?

    He's been neglecting his wife, at best.

    And how about insisting her feeding tube is removed, but then not
    allowing her to be given communion, because she might choke?

    Her parents are probably way overstating her ability to recover and
    her recognition of her mother, but he's just as far over the edge the
    other direction, IMO.

    Michelle
    Flutist

    --
    Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
    Drift as I'm singing to you
    I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
    And holding you, I'm smiling, too
    Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
    Holding you, I'm smiling, too
    -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]

  15. In article <mehouck-0AE877.16390919112003@newssvr13-
    ext.news.prodigy.com>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:


    It certainly is what *I* would want in her position.

    So?

    Michelle
    Flutist

    --
    Drift on a river, That flows through my arms
    Drift as I'm singing to you
    I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm
    And holding you, I'm smiling, too
    Here in my arms, Safe from all harm
    Holding you, I'm smiling, too
    -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99]

  16. Michelle J. Haines said:

    For a man who has money in a trust for her rehabilitation that she
    never received, who just had a baby with a new girlfriend, and
    suddenly it's time to end it all, even though she's been in this
    state for ten years?

    Her doctors and the court apparently see it quite differently. I'm
    extremely skeptical that political activists, the news media, and a bunch of
    politicians are in possession of more accurate information. I'm also
    extremely skeptical that they have her best interests in mind. Frankly, I
    doubt very much if they give a damn about her or her husband.

    Quoted message said:

    He's been neglecting his wife, at best.

    His wife has been dead many years. That's the part you don't seem to grasp.

    Quoted message said:

    And how about insisting her feeding tube is removed, but then not
    allowing her to be given communion, because she might choke?

    A feeding tube is not a choking hazard, but *anything* by mouth for an
    unconscious person most certainly is. Would you prefer to kill her by
    airway obstruction or aspiration pneumonia? Do you really think that's
    better somehow?

    Quoted message said:

    Her parents are probably way overstating her ability to recover and
    her recognition of her mother, but he's just as far over the edge the
    other direction, IMO.

    Ask yourself why her doctors would be "over the edge." You seem to think
    this decision is all his. It is not.

  17. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michelle J. Haines said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:
    Michelle J. Haines said:

    Because it's always better to starve someone to death on no more
    than the say-so of someone who will gain financially and
    relationally by their death (gets to marry his new girlfriend).

    Always a good reason to have a living will in place. Terry
    Schiavo's parents are obviously being optimistic, but I also
    wouldn't want my husband to be able to kill me because he found
    me inconvenient.

    I think you're substantially exaggerating Terry's husband's sins in
    that case, and substantially underestimating the irrationality of
    the hope held by her parents, painful as this situation is for them.

    For a man who has money in a trust for her rehabilitation that she
    never received, who just had a baby with a new girlfriend, and
    suddenly it's time to end it all, even though she's been in this
    state for ten years?

    the parents claim the money is all gone -- spent on legal fees

    the husband tried all sorts of recommended therapy for years -- all of
    it to no avail --

    Quoted message said:


    He's been neglecting his wife, at best.

    he hasn't had a wife for over a decade -- if she had been injured for a
    year I might find your argument credible -- but there is ample evidence
    that he very aggressively sought treatment and spent time trying to
    bring her back for YEARS -- it is insane to think a man should remain
    tied to someone incapable of any human relationship at all for over a
    decade and that it is somehow negligent to find a new relationship

    Quoted message said:


    And how about insisting her feeding tube is removed, but then not
    allowing her to be given communion, because she might choke?

    Her parents are probably way overstating her ability to recover and
    her recognition of her mother, but he's just as far over the edge the
    other direction, IMO.

    Michelle
    Flutist

  18. "Michelle J. Haines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    For a man who has money in a trust for her rehabilitation that she
    never received, who just had a baby with a new girlfriend, and
    suddenly it's time to end it all, even though she's been in this
    state for ten years?

    He's been neglecting his wife, at best.


    He started proceedings to have the feeding tube removed at least six years
    ago, perhaps longer. It's not as if he suddenly decided on this course of
    action after 12 years; to the contrary, he has been trying for quite a long
    time to carry out her wishes.

    Quoted message said:

    Her parents are probably way overstating her ability to recover and
    her recognition of her mother, but he's just as far over the edge the
    other direction, IMO.


    In general, the medical community seems to agree more with his assessment of
    her state of being than with her parents'. The only members of the medical
    community who claim otherwise are those offering various therapies for
    "curing" her, none of which have ever been shown to be effective and for the
    provision of which they will undoubtedly at no small financial benefit. IOW,
    the doctors supporting the parents' claims are not exactly disinterested
    third parties.
    --
    Be well, Barbara
    (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

    This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
    "Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

    Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
    Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

    All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
    Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
    other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
    fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

  19. "Michelle J. Haines" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <mehouck-0AE877.16390919112003@newssvr13-
    ext.news.prodigy.com>, [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    It certainly is what *I* would want in her position.

    So?


    So it does not seem particularly suggestive of evil intent that her husband
    has requested the removal of the feeding tube.
    --
    Be well, Barbara
    (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

    This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
    "Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

    Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
    Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

    All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
    Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
    other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
    fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

  20. "dragonlady" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,

    Michelle J. Haines said:

    In article <[email hidden]>,
    [email hidden] says...

    Quoted message said:

    Michelle J. Haines <[email hidden]> wrote:


    The only reason it's being considered it because the husband is
    saying "It's what she wants." We only have HIS word for that.


    It's my understanding that the court that made the decision had more to
    go on than that.


    My impression is that when it comes to determine what *she* would have
    wanted, there is not much more to go on than her husband's word. She did not
    have a living will/advanced directive (but then, few people do). Her family
    feels she made indirect statements suggesting she felt otherwise (things
    like saying, "Where there's life, there's hope."😉.

    The question is: whose word do we trust in such cases? Do we trust the
    spouse, who was the patient's most intimate partner and whom the patient
    herself selected as her next of kin by the very act of marrying him, or the
    family, who may well be close to the patient but who are neither intimate
    with her nor were selected by her to make such decisions? The law, at least,
    presumes the spouse is the most likely person to know what the patient would
    have wished and to act in the patient's best interest. Barring evidence of
    foul play on the part of the spouse, that seems a reasonable position to
    take.
    --
    Be well, Barbara
    (Julian [6], Aurora [4], and Vernon's [20mo] mom)

    This week's special at the English Language Butcher Shop:
    "Rejuvinate your skin." -- Hydroderm ad

    Daddy: You're up with the chickens this morning.
    Aurora: No, I'm up with my dolls!

    All opinions expressed in this post are well-reasoned and insightful.
    Needless to say, they are not those of my Internet Service Provider, its
    other subscribers or lackeys. Anyone who says otherwise is itchin' for a
    fight. -- with apologies to Michael Feldman

Active in the last 60 minutes

Active in this thread

0 users · 0 guests ·0 bots ·0 total

No signed-in users are active right now.

No known search crawlers active right now.