"B. Sanders" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<nST9b.483478$o%2.216610@sccrnsc02>...
Quoted message said:"]news:[email hidden]...
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:
It should go without saying that if you buy a frame, at some point you're going to make choices
about what parts go on it. Some people may pick
each
Quoted message said:individual part, and others may just buy a build kit. In the end a choice is still made about
what goes on the bike. A newbie might call this a custom bike, but I don't think knowledgeable
riders would.
Do you have any proof of your assertion?
It's called "common useage." In the bike world, when one says "custom", it has a certain connotation
amongst those who understand the jargon. "I put too much stuff in, so now it's fronting, but after a
few runs it was tailing - I think I've stripped some of the phase." I know exactly what this means,
and so would someone else in my profession, but you don't have any idea what I mean by any of that.
Give me an English lesson, please.
Quoted message said:And if so, does it necessarily keep me from using my definition, in absence of a dictionary
reference?
Yes or no.
Yes, because if you want to appear knowledgeable in a subject, you have to come to terms with it's
jargon, even if that jargon is contradictory to your sensibilities.
No, if you want to be pedantic.
Quoted message said:IOW: Why should I care what you think? Make me care.
I don't think that it has anything to do with anything except your lack of understanding on
the issue.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:We could always take a poll in this ng if you don't believe that statement.
Quoted message said:If someone says "custom bike" the first thing that comes to mind for me
Sample of one. Opinion noted.
If you were astute enough to goggle Google, you'd find the sample size to be a bit larger.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:a handmade frame, built after consultation with the buyer. If you have a [Insert Brand Here]
frame, built up with the hottest [censored] around, it still doesn't make it a custom bike.
Yes, it does.
Only according to your definition. Which is at odds with most experienced bicycle riders and
builders. Go ask a guy at the LBS what the word "custom" implies.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:All it is, is a frame you built up with parts that you picked out.
Again, I ask the very simple question: What word do you choose to describe a bike that was
entirely built to order, as opposed to being purchased as a stock configuration?
Since stock frames can be hung with any manner of parts, all coming from different manuafacturers,
calling each of those bikes "custom" becomes meaningless when you consider, by your strictest
definition, this is a custome bike:
Costco Motiv with the Avilio front der replaced with an LX front der.
Tell me that's a custom bike.
Quoted message said:Which English word is most commonly used to describe that? Not a paragraph. A word. One word. If
you want to argue semantics, you must be prepared to offer counterexamples (words that better
express meaning).
No, it is you who is bucking for a semantics argument. For reference, common useage sometimes turns
words into something new. "Gay", "party
(v.)", and the list could go on and on and on.
In the bicycle world, "custom" connotes a specific thing. If I take my DB frame and send it to get a
new paint job, it does not become a custom bike. It just has a custom paint job.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:You can pull out your dictionary and argue that your bike fits the definition of 'custom', if
that makes you feel cooler.
A dictionary is a reference tool, used to establish a baseline of understanding regarding
semantics.
But it cannot define every word in every useage. What does the word "bonk" connote?
Quoted message said:Nothing more. I don't feel "cooler" by establishing a common reference frame.
But it *isn't* common. It is you who are trying to make a wider definition from the
commonly-accepted. It is unfortunate that the word "frame" has been dropped, but that's just
tough beans.
Quoted message said:It's the only way to proceed rationally.
LOL. Please list the modes of rational language use and evolution, starting from Chaucer's time.
Please give me the permutations of the word "sweet", "radical" and "biff".
Quoted message said:We could, instead, attempt epistemological analysis, if you prefer.
Other than being self-aggrandizing, what would that accomplish for you? You want to have an
intellectual [censored]-measuring contest (sorta oxymoronic) then I'm your guy. Smarty-pants pissing
contests are my specialty.
Quoted message said:"X is custom if and only if" and that sort of thing. Is that your preferred analytical framework?
Go right ahead.
A bike is custom if and only if the frame is built to user specifications. It's a stricter
definition than you would like, I get that. But it's how it is with experienced bicycle people.
Go outside
w.m-b. to verify this if you wish.
Quoted message said:Quoted message said:Just don't expect anyone in this ng, or your LBS to buy into it.
My expectations about this NG are dropping daily, sorry to say.
And your expectations are meaningful in what way? I suspect that soon you will have another moniker
to hang on to: "Barely, the almost-MTBer." Sure, it's juvenile, but then again, I wouldn't want to
live up to any unrealistic expectations on your part.
Spider
