Go Fat Greg Go!!

zman said:

gotta call BS on that one. the ingrate, overweight, hypocrite went so
far (w.r.t. LA) that there are "NO MIRACLES IN CYCLING". This coming
from a guy who still carries around shot gun pellets in his heart and
lungs and won a tdf by 8 seconds. [censored] lemond, go to minnesota, crawl
back in your cave and die. i crash people who ride bikes with his name
on it for fun.

Dude, you need help.

KG, couldn't agree more. i used to plaster my walls of my shop with
lemond memorabilia, pix from the corestates race, etc. he turned me on
to cycling and lead many to believe an american really could succeed in
the european sport of cycling. BLEW IT, indeed.

zman said:

gotta call BS on that one. the ingrate, overweight, hypocrite went so
far (w.r.t. LA) that there are "NO MIRACLES IN CYCLING". This coming
from a guy who still carries around shot gun pellets in his heart and
lungs and won a tdf by 8 seconds. [censored] lemond, go to minnesota, crawl
back in your cave and die. i crash people who ride bikes with his name
on it for fun.

There are no miracles in cycling. It doesn't matter who says it.

Michael Press said:

Well, he started it.

Seriously, Lemond brought this upon himself acting as if
he is running for public office. I would like to see him
say `I am entirely in the wrong by making accusations
about drug use. This is none of my business' That will
make him look good.

Nah...I think that would make him look like a back-pedaling weasel.
You can't put that cat back in the bag. Even if his opinions were
originally motivated by LA's displacement of him as top-dog USA cycling
superstar, he's gotta stick with 'em now. I mean, what if it turns out
that he's actually right?

However, I do wish Lemond would have expressed his opinions a bit more
diplomatically and NEVER started chattering about "virtual" TdF wins
and such nonsense. He simply cheapened his own legacy with these
comments.

Quoted message said:

Nah...I think that would make him look like a back-pedaling weasel.
You can't put that cat back in the bag. Even if his opinions were
originally motivated by LA's displacement of him as top-dog USA cycling
superstar, he's gotta stick with 'em now. I mean, what if it turns out
that he's actually right?

Dumbass -

It doesn't matter. LemonD's got some whispers about him too. His
"miraculous" recovery in the '89 Giro with the "iron injection" from
his soigneur, Otto Jacome. Then he went and won the '89 Tour
straightaway.

Surely LemonD doesn't like that accusation. Is it hypocritical for him
to make accusations himself?

You tell me.

That's why none of the other greats do it. They know it's not their
place. There's a code amongst professional cyclists and LemonD broke it
and for the worst reasons possible (jealousy at being superceded as the
greatest ever American cyclist). Why didn't he point the finger at
Indurain? Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Nah...I think that would make him look like a back-pedaling weasel.
You can't put that cat back in the bag. Even if his opinions were
originally motivated by LA's displacement of him as top-dog USA cycling
superstar, he's gotta stick with 'em now. I mean, what if it turns out
that he's actually right?

Dumbass -

It doesn't matter. LemonD's got some whispers about him too. His
"miraculous" recovery in the '89 Giro with the "iron injection" from
his soigneur, Otto Jacome. Then he went and won the '89 Tour
straightaway.

The injection was supposedly given by his father-in-law, a physician, not by
Otto. You should have known that.
There has always been speculation as to whether anemia was the problem,
whether the iron injectio could or did have a positive effect on the anemia
or whether the injection simpply had a placebo effect.

Quoted message said:

Surely LemonD doesn't like that accusation. Is it hypocritical for him
to make accusations himself?

You tell me.

That's why none of the other greats do it. They know it's not their
place. There's a code amongst professional cyclists and LemonD broke it
and for the worst reasons possible (jealousy at being superceded as the
greatest ever American cyclist).

There is indeed a code of silence as to doping by pros. However, numerous
pros have spoken about their own drug use once they were retired. Some have
also spoken about drug use by their contemporaries. What Lemond actually
did was raise a red flag as to Armstrong once his association with Ferrari
became known due to investigative reporting by David Walsh. Lemond discussed
that association (with Ferrari) with Eddie Coyle in relationship to the
increased O2 demands of spinning low gears as Amrnstrong was doing. As you
know, that conversation was detailed by Walsh and B. in LA Confidential. The
circumstances of and substance of the conversation as reported has never
been questioned by Coyle.

Quoted message said:

Why didn't he point the finger at
Indurain?

Ask Lemond. I also find it interesting that Walsh did not examine Indurain
in his book. But then we all know that Indurain turned into a TdF winner
when he lost weight and started spinning smaller gears in the mountains. ;-)

Quoted message said:

Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

Perhaps because Inturain has always acted as a nice person and a champions
with class? The difference between Indurain and Armstrong is striking in
that regard. But you know all of this, Mr. Campione.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

It doesn't matter. LemonD's got some whispers about him too. His
"miraculous" recovery in the '89 Giro with the "iron injection" from
his soigneur, Otto Jacome. Then he went and won the '89 Tour
straightaway.

Surely LemonD doesn't like that accusation. Is it hypocritical for him
to make accusations himself?

You tell me.

Sure it's hypocritical-- of course, there aren't frozen samples of
Lemonds [censored] out there that could expose him as a definitive cheater.

Quoted message said:

That's why none of the other greats do it. They know it's not their
place. There's a code amongst professional cyclists and LemonD broke it
and for the worst reasons possible (jealousy at being superceded as the
greatest ever American cyclist). Why didn't he point the finger at
Indurain? Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

No doubt, he violated pro cycling's omerta. However, while I certainly
can't condone his actions, I can somewhat sympathize with his
"jealousy" (if that was indeed the motivation for his comments). All
of the "other greats"-- Merckx, Hinault, etc.-- have the distinct
advantage of living in societies where cycling is an indeginous, widely
heralded sport with a rich tradition and history. As such, the "old
timers" are worshiped and adored right along with the current-day
stars. Lance (ok, LANCE) wins 7 Tours in mostly dominating fashion and
gets all the trappings of a modern-day superstar. At the same time
this is going on, nobody in the good ol' USA knows or cares about Greg
Lemond. In virtually every quintessentially American sport the
old-time greats and pioneers are idolized. Not so for Greg, who
excelled one of the hardest sports. So, should Greg have just sucked
it up and kept his yap closed? Yes. Does he deserve a pass for his
comments? No...but maybe there is room for a bit of understanding.

Quoted message said:

thanks,

K. Gringioni.

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

Perhaps because Inturain has always acted as a nice person and a champions
with class? The difference between Indurain and Armstrong is striking in
that regard. But you know all of this, Mr. Campione.

I think the point was that Indurain, being Spanish, posed no "threat"
to Greg's position as the all-time top-dog American cyclist.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

Quoted message said:

Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

Perhaps because Inturain has always acted as a nice person and a
champions
with class? The difference between Indurain and Armstrong is striking in
that regard. But you know all of this, Mr. Campione.

I think the point was that Indurain, being Spanish, posed no "threat"
to Greg's position as the all-time top-dog American cyclist.

You forget that Lemond did take a swipe at Indurain after Indurai's first
Tour win. Lemond commented that the first win was always the easiest but
that the second would be much harder to win. And we know how that worked
out for Indurain.

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

It doesn't matter. LemonD's got some whispers about him too. His
"miraculous" recovery in the '89 Giro with the "iron injection" from
his soigneur, Otto Jacome. Then he went and won the '89 Tour
straightaway.

Surely LemonD doesn't like that accusation. Is it hypocritical for him
to make accusations himself?

You tell me.

Sure it's hypocritical-- of course, there aren't frozen samples of
Lemonds [censored] out there that could expose him as a definitive cheater.

Quoted message said:

That's why none of the other greats do it. They know it's not their
place. There's a code amongst professional cyclists and LemonD broke it
and for the worst reasons possible (jealousy at being superceded as the
greatest ever American cyclist). Why didn't he point the finger at
Indurain? Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

No doubt, he violated pro cycling's omerta. However, while I certainly
can't condone his actions, I can somewhat sympathize with his
"jealousy" (if that was indeed the motivation for his comments). All
of the "other greats"-- Merckx, Hinault, etc.-- have the distinct
advantage of living in societies where cycling is an indeginous, widely
heralded sport with a rich tradition and history. As such, the "old
timers" are worshiped and adored right along with the current-day
stars. Lance (ok, LANCE) wins 7 Tours in mostly dominating fashion and
gets all the trappings of a modern-day superstar. At the same time
this is going on, nobody in the good ol' USA knows or cares about Greg
Lemond. In virtually every quintessentially American sport the
old-time greats and pioneers are idolized. Not so for Greg, who
excelled one of the hardest sports. So, should Greg have just sucked
it up and kept his yap closed? Yes. Does he deserve a pass for his
comments? No...but maybe there is room for a bit of understanding.

Your view of Lemond is less than accurate factually, as a sporting celebrity
and businessman. Over time his three wins will stand up far better than 7*,
particularly as more doping information comes to light.

BTW, he may be overweight but he looked to be enjoying himself at Brasstown
Bald---a everyone knew who he was. Did Lance get out of the team car and
circulate with the fans on the route and at the finish?

B. Lafferty said:

Your view of Lemond is less than accurate factually, as a sporting celebrity
and businessman. Over time his three wins will stand up far better than 7*,
particularly as more doping information comes to light.

I suppose I should have attached a caveat to my statement that
"...nobody in the good ol' USA knows or cares about Greg Lemond". Of
course he is widely known in the *cycling community* both for his
athletic career and business endeavors. Mainstream America, however,
wouldn't know Greg Lemond from Greg Brady. This is sad and unfortunate
but nonetheless a reality. The point was that I could see how this
might cause him some resentment as Lance did indeed become a mainstream
media darling.

Quoted message said:

BTW, he may be overweight but he looked to be enjoying himself at Brasstown
Bald---a everyone knew who he was. Did Lance get out of the team car and
circulate with the fans on the route and at the finish?

He was probably just resting his marathoning legs :-)

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Michael Press said:

Well, he started it.

Seriously, Lemond brought this upon himself acting as if
he is running for public office. I would like to see him
say `I am entirely in the wrong by making accusations
about drug use. This is none of my business' That will
make him look good.

Nah...I think that would make him look like a back-pedaling weasel.
You can't put that cat back in the bag. Even if his opinions were
originally motivated by LA's displacement of him as top-dog USA cycling
superstar, he's gotta stick with 'em now. I mean, what if it turns out
that he's actually right?

However, I do wish Lemond would have expressed his opinions a bit more
diplomatically and NEVER started chattering about "virtual" TdF wins
and such nonsense. He simply cheapened his own legacy with these
comments.

I stay by what I said. Lemond could change. You would not
believe it, but others might. Saying `I was wrong' is
excruciating; and one never has the option of arguing with
critics who say that one is back-pedaling weasel.

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

B. Lafferty said:

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

B. Lafferty said:

>Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
> about to get his 4th?

Perhaps because Inturain has always acted as a nice person and a
champions
with class? The difference between Indurain and Armstrong is striking in
that regard. But you know all of this, Mr. Campione.

I think the point was that Indurain, being Spanish, posed no "threat"
to Greg's position as the all-time top-dog American cyclist.

You forget that Lemond did take a swipe at Indurain after Indurai's first
Tour win. Lemond commented that the first win was always the easiest but
that the second would be much harder to win. And we know how that worked
out for Indurain.

There you go. Lemond early on acts like a jackass.

--
Michael Press

In article
<[email hidden]>,

Quoted message said:

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Dumbass -

It doesn't matter. LemonD's got some whispers about him too. His
"miraculous" recovery in the '89 Giro with the "iron injection" from
his soigneur, Otto Jacome. Then he went and won the '89 Tour
straightaway.

Surely LemonD doesn't like that accusation. Is it hypocritical for him
to make accusations himself?

You tell me.

Sure it's hypocritical-- of course, there aren't frozen samples of
Lemonds [censored] out there that could expose him as a definitive cheater.

Quoted message said:

That's why none of the other greats do it. They know it's not their
place. There's a code amongst professional cyclists and LemonD broke it
and for the worst reasons possible (jealousy at being superceded as the
greatest ever American cyclist). Why didn't he point the finger at
Indurain? Why didn't he talk about his "virtual 4th" when Indurain was
about to get his 4th?

No doubt, he violated pro cycling's omerta. However, while I certainly
can't condone his actions, I can somewhat sympathize with his
"jealousy" (if that was indeed the motivation for his comments). All
of the "other greats"-- Merckx, Hinault, etc.-- have the distinct
advantage of living in societies where cycling is an indeginous, widely
heralded sport with a rich tradition and history. As such, the "old
timers" are worshiped and adored right along with the current-day
stars. Lance (ok, LANCE) wins 7 Tours in mostly dominating fashion and
gets all the trappings of a modern-day superstar. At the same time
this is going on, nobody in the good ol' USA knows or cares about Greg
Lemond. In virtually every quintessentially American sport the
old-time greats and pioneers are idolized. Not so for Greg, who
excelled one of the hardest sports. So, should Greg have just sucked
it up and kept his yap closed? Yes. Does he deserve a pass for his
comments? No...but maybe there is room for a bit of understanding.

He is petulant. Look around you. (articles in this
thread). Plenty of folk dying because Lemond won't be a
man. Had he gotten off contrasting himself with other
cyclists he would be the icon you are looking for.

--
Michael Press

B. Lafferty said:

Over time his three wins will stand up far better than 7*

dumbass,

put some money on that.

if someone can come up with a fair measure of reverence i will bet you
$1000 that ten years from now lemond and his 3 wins is not more revered
than armstrong and his 7.

Michael Press said:

He is petulant. Look around you. (articles in this
thread). Plenty of folk dying because Lemond won't be a
man. Had he gotten off contrasting himself with other
cyclists he would be the icon you are looking for.

--
Michael Press

WTF are you yammering about, "plenty of folk dying because Lemond won't
be a man"??? Are you on crack?

Ain't NOBODY died because of anything Lemond did, or did not, do. Your
arguments might be more persuasive if you didn't make such outlandish
(i.e. [censored]) statements.

Fred

Michael Press said:

He is petulant. Look around you. (articles in this
thread). Plenty of folk dying because Lemond won't be a
man. Had he gotten off contrasting himself with other
cyclists he would be the icon you are looking for.

--
Michael Press

WTF are you yammering about, "plenty of folk dying because Lemond won't
be a man"??? Are you on crack?

Ain't NOBODY died because of anything Lemond did, or did not, do. Your
arguments might be more persuasive if you didn't make such outlandish
(i.e. [censored]) statements.

Fred

Michael Press said:

Quoted message said:

You forget that Lemond did take a swipe at Indurain after Indurai's first
Tour win. Lemond commented that the first win was always the easiest but
that the second would be much harder to win. And we know how that worked
out for Indurain.

There you go. Lemond early on acts like a jackass.

Actually, wouldn't most of us agree with that? Your first win is
rarely as a marked rider, beyond being numero uno for your team (and
that is not often the case - I'd guess that most first time winners
are there by circumstance - sort of like being sixth and seeing
everyone else fade away, or taking the set-up lead for the real numero
uno for your team and ending the day with 20 minutes on everyone else
when the numero uno never made the move).

After winning, you're a marked man. Only graceful thing to do is
retire at the end of the year and take up [censored] and working on
virtual wins.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Kurgan Gringioni said:

Like it or not, LANCE is firmly ensconced in the mainstream
consciousness and LemonD has already been forgotten, long ago.

And he's celebrity filler, good for page three or the front of the
society section. As long as his money holds out and he shows up at
charity events, he will be well known. And whether people like it or
not, both sides of the oncology community, staff and patients, know
and respect the guy, so he has that not-so-small world as a celebrity.

Face it, Lance haters, he'll be shaking hands at events when most of
us are playing shuffleboard at the home. Which for me means that he
has to hold up another 10 years or so.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell said:

Face it, Lance haters, he'll be shaking hands at events when most of
us are playing shuffleboard at the home.

That's appropriate because all of those shuffleboard
tifosi at the home are doped to the gills.

Bob Schwartz