Is Jan fat?

In the Hell on Wheels documentary, we heard Lance Armstrong talking
about the Tour of France saying "I show up prepared, I show up
motivated and I show up because I love it, I respect it and I want to
do well."

Can you imagine Jan Ullrich saying that? Would you believe him?

JT

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In article <[email hidden]>,

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

In the Hell on Wheels documentary, we heard Lance Armstrong talking
about the Tour of France saying "I show up prepared, I show up
motivated and I show up because I love it, I respect it and I want to
do well."

Can you imagine Jan Ullrich saying that? Would you believe him?

I'm no expert on racing or human nature, but I have read _Lance
Armstrong's War_, and the impression left is that Jan pretty much fell
into the happy-go-lucky persona by default, since nobody was going to
come even close to surpassing Lance-intensity.

The curious question is how a guy who is just a monster of pro cycling
and a former Tour winner gets a reputation for laziness. I think about
the worst thing you can say about him is that he was only the
second-best Tour rider of the late 90s and early noughts.

Remember all those candidates for the Paris yellow jersey that people
are talking about? Well, here's the list of the ones who beat Jan last
year:

Basso, Ivan

He's doing something right with his training.

I think the thing is that Lance made a big deal of _everything_. Lance
famously weighed his food. Lance bragged about the hectothousand-dollar
secret TT bike (which, even better, was not used in the Tour!), and the
epic detail-orientation with which he approached preparations. A lot of
this is because Lance is a control-freak, and needs something to occupy
his recovery phases.

Jan, again I say, at worst trains with slightly less intensity or
accuracy or determination than Lance; I don't think you can seriously
suggest a vast talent or training discrepancy, unless you structure
things such that Jan, bike racer since before the fall of communism, is
a ball of overtalented, undertrained muscle.

Give it to Lance: between training, talent, and intensity, he has always
found some small advantage over Jan, even when he was sick, and crashed,
and dehydrated. Maybe Lance even made Jan look good by always doing ust
enough to win. Even so, Jan was still beating everybody else
(discounting, um, the year he missed the podium, and the year he took
E...).

I can't imagine Jan saying what Lance did at the top of this post, but
he still lives his life with a Tour-focus I could not match if you paid
me. Being even close to as good as Jan means taking an approach to
training that is pretty damned serious.

If Jan smiles, it's because he knows there's no point in frowning. He
won't ride any faster with a scowl.

I dunno. I wouldn't even bet in favour of Jan this year, but I fear that
there's a real lack of respect paid to runners-up in elite fields. Jan's
number two: he tries _harder_, remember?

--
Ryan Cousineau [email hidden] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 02:50:55 GMT, Ryan Cousineau <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

In article <[email hidden]>,

John Forrest Tomlinson said:

In the Hell on Wheels documentary, we heard Lance Armstrong talking
about the Tour of France saying "I show up prepared, I show up
motivated and I show up because I love it, I respect it and I want to
do well."

Can you imagine Jan Ullrich saying that? Would you believe him?

I'm no expert on racing or human nature, but I have read _Lance
Armstrong's War_, and the impression left is that Jan pretty much fell
into the happy-go-lucky persona by default, since nobody was going to
come even close to surpassing Lance-intensity.

The curious question is how a guy who is just a monster of pro cycling
and a former Tour winner gets a reputation for laziness.

I dont' think Ullrich is lazy. No way can you win grand tours and
Olympic medals and be lazy. He's just not as intensely and
consistently committed as Lance Armstrong. And to win the Tour of
France, you need that higher level of committment.

Quoted message said:

Jan, again I say, at worst trains with slightly less intensity or
accuracy or determination than Lance; I don't think you can seriously
suggest a vast talent or training discrepancy, unless you structure
things such that Jan, bike racer since before the fall of communism, is
a ball of overtalented, undertrained muscle.

When he's "on" that's right. But I think he's only "on" for maybe six
months a year. Maybe nine. Lance Armstrong was on for 12 months a
year. I think Basso is on for 11 or 12.

JT

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John Forrest Tomlinson wrote:
communism, is

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a ball of overtalented, undertrained muscle.

When he's "on" that's right. But I think he's only "on" for maybe six
months a year. Maybe nine. Lance Armstrong was on for 12 months a
year. I think Basso is on for 11 or 12.

JT

I'm pretty sure Lance was only on for July for most of his pro bike
racing career.

Gabe

Tom Kunich said:

Over the years Jan's showed that
he knows a hell of a lot more about his condition than a bunch of never was
stalkers on RBR.

You're so right. He really shut up his critics by getting caught by
armstrong in the opening stage TT last year.

Marlene Blanshay said:

one thing is obvious, jan has no neck and always has kind of a chubby
face- no matter how thin he gets he always has slightly chubby cheeks

dumbass,

it's the chubby cheeks alright, but not the ones on his face.

That's a hard one John. Is there any reason to believe that just doing
his job isn't motivation enough?

So what you're saying is that if Jan couldn't beat Lance he wasn't
training with sufficient commitment?

I wonder where that leaves you.

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:47:12 GMT, Gabe Brovedani <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty sure Lance was only on for July for most of his pro bike
racing career.

Gabe

I'm sure you're right - probably nothing but visualization exercises
until the prologue, then crank it up. Ride a few early small tours to
see if he liked the team uniform and the bike paint job, but nothing
that the average rbr denizen couldn't do backpedaling with a 12. Maybe
some synchronization exercises on the spin bikes at the local gym with
the rest of the team, just to look good coming around the last corner
on the TTT.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Tom Kunich said:

So what you're saying is that if Jan couldn't beat Lance he wasn't
training with sufficient commitment?

okay, you're right. jan is on the optimal preparation track to win the
tour.

Kyle Legate said:

jerry in vermont said:

Maybe he just has a terrible metabolism. I cant imagine doing pro
level hours and not withering.

Are you sure he's doing pro level hours, and not just noodling around
for a couple of hours and claiming he's feeling "good sensations"?

every interview quote he states he is doing 5-6 hours. thats some
saddle time. they guy has to be doing 25 hrs a week, on an easy week,
barring injury. Come on. How can you not loose weight doing that?

jerry in vermont said:

Kyle Legate said:

jerry in vermont said:

Maybe he just has a terrible metabolism. I cant imagine doing pro
level hours and not withering.

Are you sure he's doing pro level hours, and not just noodling around
for a couple of hours and claiming he's feeling "good sensations"?

every interview quote he states he is doing 5-6 hours. thats some
saddle time. they guy has to be doing 25 hrs a week, on an easy week,
barring injury. Come on. How can you not loose weight doing that?

Most drinkers tell their doctors they only drink 2-3 beers when they
really mean 8-9.

"okay, you're right. jan is on the optimal preparation track to win the
tour."

No, no, I insist that you're a much better judge of his training regime
than he is.

Tom Kunich said:

"okay, you're right. jan is on the optimal preparation track to win the
tour."

No, no, I insist that you're a much better judge of his training regime
than he is.

dumbass,

i'm sure you'll be vindicated after the 2006 tour.

Curtis L. Russell said:

On Thu, 27 Apr 2006 03:47:12 GMT, Gabe Brovedani <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

I'm pretty sure Lance was only on for July for most of his pro bike
racing career.

Gabe

I'm sure you're right - probably nothing but visualization exercises
until the prologue, then crank it up. Ride a few early small tours to
see if he liked the team uniform and the bike paint job, but nothing
that the average rbr denizen couldn't do backpedaling with a 12. Maybe
some synchronization exercises on the spin bikes at the local gym with
the rest of the team, just to look good coming around the last corner
on the TTT.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Yeah, all that, plus the [censored] that kills them.

Gabe

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Most drinkers tell their doctors they only drink 2-3 beers when they
really mean 8-9.

touche'

how did you know i drink? my wife told you didnt she....where is my
white tank top!

Curtis L. Russell said:

Ride a few early small tours to
see if he liked the team uniform and the bike paint job, but nothing
that the average rbr denizen couldn't do backpedaling with a 12.

Dumbass,
We all ride 55x11 in rbr (at least those of us on The Program).

jerry in vermont said:

touche'

Quoted message said:

how did you know i drink? my wife told you didnt she....where is my
white tank top!

This livedrunk philosophy is becoming a serious problem on rbr.

Donald Munro said:

jerry in vermont said:

touche'

Quoted message said:

how did you know i drink? my wife told you didnt she....where is my
white tank top!

This livedrunk philosophy is becoming a serious problem on rbr.

It's not the livedrunk philosophy so much as the postdrunk methodology that
is the serious problem on rbr.

--
Bill Asher

William Asher said:

Donald Munro said:

jerry in vermont said:

touche'

Quoted message said:

how did you know i drink? my wife told you didnt she....where is my
white tank top!

This livedrunk philosophy is becoming a serious problem on rbr.

It's not the livedrunk philosophy so much as the postdrunk methodology that
is the serious problem on rbr.

Postdrunk? Can we agree that postdrunk is for those that lack training
and a sense of pace, and probably drinking beer by Budweiser?
Postdrunk is a state found in those that only aspire to the true
livedrunk philosophy. Puce wristbands for the novices.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...