Ergonomics and finding a better bike... help...

Preston Crawford said:

So what would be the optimal solution?

Recumbent?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

So what would be the optimal solution?

Recumbent? <<

Euthanasia? Cowboy up and ride past the pain.

"Preston Crawford" wrote: (clip) For the record, cycling doesn't seem to
aggravate either ailment alone. These exist with or without cycling.
Meaning if I take a break I will still have back pain or hand pain. And
sometimes when I bike the back pain gets better (although the hoods do seem
to cause the thumb pain to get worse). (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From what you say, your pain is not particularly bike related. (Except,
possible the thumb pain.) A recumbent, as suggested by Rich, might make
riding more comfortable, but I don't see how, with the facts you have
outlined, you will solve the problem by tweaking your bike.

TIC remark: Could a recumbent be considered the wheelchair of bicycling?

Rich said:

Preston Crawford said:

So what would be the optimal solution?

Recumbent?

Nah. He specified a /bike/.

HD&R, BS

"Leo Lichtman" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Preston Crawford" wrote: (clip) For the record, cycling doesn't seem to
aggravate either ailment alone. These exist with or without cycling.
Meaning if I take a break I will still have back pain or hand pain. And
sometimes when I bike the back pain gets better (although the hoods do
seem to cause the thumb pain to get worse). (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
From what you say, your pain is not particularly bike related. (Except,
possible the thumb pain.) A recumbent, as suggested by Rich, might make
riding more comfortable, but I don't see how, with the facts you have
outlined, you will solve the problem by tweaking your bike.

TIC remark: Could a recumbent be considered the wheelchair of bicycling?

Yes.

Quoted message said:

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just wanted to solicit some advice. The last year or so I've started to
experience lower back pain here and there. I've been re-fit on my
current road bike, a heavily modified Trek 1000. This is the one where
they had to put in a quill stem on a model that usually takes a
threadless head. It was innovative and did the job, but with the back
problems lingering and with some thumb and wrist issues (light carpal
tunnel and tendonitis of the thumbs) I'm starting to wonder if there
might be a better cycling solution.

I (if you don't remember or know me) mainly cycle commute. I bike about
15 miles a day. I used to bike about 35 miles a day back when I was 26.
Now I'm 31. Now I know there are lots of things probably going on.
Everything from the ergonomics of my workstation at work to other
activities. I know this and, believe me, I'm working on these areas as
well. However, I thought it might also be worth asking about my biking
situation as well.

For what it's worth. I ride mostly in the hoods or on the top bar of my
road bike. I never get into the drops. It's too far to stretch without
causing major back problems these days. So I mostly ride in the hoods.
On one hand (no pun intended) I can see how that might cause some
problems with regards to my wrists and my thumb. On the other hand, I
can see how a flat bar might be a problem as well, since then my wrists
would be turned at an angle. I also wonder about a more naturally
upright bike like a touring bike or a mountain bike. But then I worry
about the handle bars again.

I guess the bottom line is that it would be nice to find the best bike,
that to do long distances comfortable and at a decent clip (i.e. no 3
speed comfort banana bikes), but yet be kinder to my ailments.

For the record, cycling doesn't seem to aggravate either ailment alone.
These exist with or without cycling. Meaning if I take a break I will
still have back pain or hand pain. And sometimes when I bike the back
pain gets better (although the hoods do seem to cause the thumb pain to
get worse).

So what would be the optimal solution? And I know this is subjective,
but I want to keep biking and I want to do so with less frequent pain.
Any suggestions about a bike that might be a better fit would be
appreciated.

Back pain and wrist/hand/carpal problems. You have 2 of the 3 reasons people
try recumbents.

In my experience, a flat bar is harder on the hands, but then they are my
hands and so this doesn't necessarily indicate how they would work for you.
A flat bar and bar ends help. When riding with bar ends in traffic, I often
find myself with one hand on the bar end and the other hand on the bar
(where I can read the brake).

If you are riding uniformly on the hoods becuse it's too far to get into the
drops -- that suggests your handlebar is still too low.

Preston Crawford said:

Just wanted to solicit some advice. The last year or so I've started to
experience lower back pain here and there. I've been re-fit on my
current road bike, a heavily modified Trek 1000. This is the one where
they had to put in a quill stem on a model that usually takes a
threadless head. It was innovative and did the job, but with the back
problems lingering and with some thumb and wrist issues (light carpal
tunnel and tendonitis of the thumbs) I'm starting to wonder if there
might be a better cycling solution.

<snip>

Quoted message said:

For what it's worth. I ride mostly in the hoods or on the top bar of my
road bike. I never get into the drops. It's too far to stretch without
causing major back problems these days. So I mostly ride in the hoods.

This to me suggests that even though you've been refit on your present
bike, the bike is simply poorly suited to your needs in any case.

Other posts have suggested that your pain issues are not strictly
bike-related. Although that might be the case, having a bike that fits
poorly will only aggravate things. From what I can tell, the top tube
of your bike might be too long, and you simply can't reach all the
positions on the bars. A stem with shorter extension and a longer
quill might bring the bars back up to a level that works, but you seem
to suggest that this has already been done.

I'd go ahead and try a different style of bicycle and see if you don't
actually enjoy it more. A tourer would be an excellent place to start.
There's also the matter of what handlebars you use. "Moustache"
handlebars are halfway between drops and flat bars, and might suit you
better than either.

Others have suggested recumbents; I don't have any 'bent experience
myself, but if that's what enables you to ride--and if it makes you
happy, well, more power to you.

-Luigi

Sorni said:

Rich said:

Preston Crawford said:

So what would be the optimal solution?

Recumbent?

Nah. He specified a /bike/.

HD&R, BS

Indeed. 🙂

Preston

Luigi de Guzman said:

This to me suggests that even though you've been refit on your present
bike, the bike is simply poorly suited to your needs in any case.

It's closer. But not optimal, no.

Quoted message said:

Other posts have suggested that your pain issues are not strictly
bike-related. Although that might be the case, having a bike that fits
poorly will only aggravate things. From what I can tell, the top tube
of your bike might be too long, and you simply can't reach all the
positions on the bars. A stem with shorter extension and a longer

This is part of what's happening. I am 6'1" with a 30 inch inseam. So
I'm very tall in the upper body. I was put on a fit bike last time and
when that was done my fit person determined that ultimately the best fit
would be a custom frame. I'm trying to find out of if there's hope
outside of that option.

Quoted message said:

quill might bring the bars back up to a level that works, but you seem
to suggest that this has already been done.

Yes. I'll take a picture once my bike is out of the shop by the quill is
a good half-foot above the frame.

Quoted message said:

I'd go ahead and try a different style of bicycle and see if you don't
actually enjoy it more. A tourer would be an excellent place to start.
There's also the matter of what handlebars you use. "Moustache"
handlebars are halfway between drops and flat bars, and might suit you
better than either.

Can you get those these days on a bike standard or in a scenario where
the bike isn't a 3-speed that putters around town?

Quoted message said:

Others have suggested recumbents; I don't have any 'bent experience
myself, but if that's what enables you to ride--and if it makes you
happy, well, more power to you.

Thanks!

Preston

Remind me again how tall you are?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Preston Crawford" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Just wanted to solicit some advice. The last year or so I've started to
experience lower back pain here and there. I've been re-fit on my
current road bike, a heavily modified Trek 1000. This is the one where
they had to put in a quill stem on a model that usually takes a
threadless head. It was innovative and did the job, but with the back
problems lingering and with some thumb and wrist issues (light carpal
tunnel and tendonitis of the thumbs) I'm starting to wonder if there
might be a better cycling solution.

I (if you don't remember or know me) mainly cycle commute. I bike about
15 miles a day. I used to bike about 35 miles a day back when I was 26.
Now I'm 31. Now I know there are lots of things probably going on.
Everything from the ergonomics of my workstation at work to other
activities. I know this and, believe me, I'm working on these areas as
well. However, I thought it might also be worth asking about my biking
situation as well.

For what it's worth. I ride mostly in the hoods or on the top bar of my
road bike. I never get into the drops. It's too far to stretch without
causing major back problems these days. So I mostly ride in the hoods.
On one hand (no pun intended) I can see how that might cause some
problems with regards to my wrists and my thumb. On the other hand, I
can see how a flat bar might be a problem as well, since then my wrists
would be turned at an angle. I also wonder about a more naturally
upright bike like a touring bike or a mountain bike. But then I worry
about the handle bars again.

I guess the bottom line is that it would be nice to find the best bike,
that to do long distances comfortable and at a decent clip (i.e. no 3
speed comfort banana bikes), but yet be kinder to my ailments.

For the record, cycling doesn't seem to aggravate either ailment alone.
These exist with or without cycling. Meaning if I take a break I will
still have back pain or hand pain. And sometimes when I bike the back
pain gets better (although the hoods do seem to cause the thumb pain to
get worse).

So what would be the optimal solution? And I know this is subjective,
but I want to keep biking and I want to do so with less frequent pain.
Any suggestions about a bike that might be a better fit would be
appreciated.

Preston

Preston Crawford said:

Can you get those these days on a bike standard or in a scenario where
the bike isn't a 3-speed that putters around town?

"standard"? Not sure. Nitto makes a pair of moustache bars that take
road levers. Mind you, I'm not talking about "sit up and beg" North
Road bars--imagine more like what you'd get if the drops on your drops
didn't drop, but instead were flat out. The bottom part would come back
towards you, the levers would be horizontal (but still in almost the
same place w/respect to bar bend) and your wrists would still not be
flat.

Funny you should mention 3-speeds, becasue the last 3-speed I owned--it
had been cobbled together from an old mixte frame, old
"moustache" bars wrapped in plastic tape, a couple of road levers, and a
Sachs Torpedo 3-speed hub--had these bars, and I actually rather liked
them.

-Luigi

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In article <[email hidden]>,

Preston Crawford said:

Luigi de Guzman said:

This to me suggests that even though you've been refit on your present
bike, the bike is simply poorly suited to your needs in any case.

It's closer. But not optimal, no.

Quoted message said:

Other posts have suggested that your pain issues are not strictly
bike-related. Although that might be the case, having a bike that fits
poorly will only aggravate things. From what I can tell, the top tube
of your bike might be too long, and you simply can't reach all the
positions on the bars. A stem with shorter extension and a longer

This is part of what's happening. I am 6'1" with a 30 inch inseam. So
I'm very tall in the upper body. I was put on a fit bike last time and
when that was done my fit person determined that ultimately the best fit
would be a custom frame. I'm trying to find out of if there's hope
outside of that option.

_ You should look at bikes like the Trek Pilot or Specialized
Sequoia. A compact frame that was designed to get the handlebars
at seat height or higher. You might also look at some "womens"
bikes since they tend to have exactly the same kind of problem,
( short legs long torso ). Another thing that might help a lot
is getting wider than standard drop bars.

_ If you can't ride comfortably in the drops, then the bike
doesn't fit no matter what. IMHO, if you can't ride in the
drops then there is very little point in riding a drop bar
bike.

_ Booker C. Bense

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Preston Crawford said:

I (if you don't remember or know me) mainly cycle commute. I bike about
15 miles a day. I used to bike about 35 miles a day back when I was 26.
Now I'm 31.

STFU and go ride. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you're the same age as
my younger brother and he keeps whinging about aches and pains. Oooooh
me poor back, yer great jessy? If you have genuie issues with your back
and wrists then I apologise. You need to see a doctor and then mention
to your boss that you need your desk ergonomically checked out.
Mentioning the phase 'carpal tunnel syndrome' usualy scares most
employers into action. (ok you mentioned you're already fixing this).

If you wrists are sore then you're putting to much weight on then,
raise the handle bars. This will also straighten your back and with
luck put less strain on that to. Or ignore a pratt like me and drop by
your LBS and get then to size you up probably.

And stopping sound like an old man. Go ride with some 50+ hardcore
roadies and after they've left you for dead you'll realise you've got
another 19 years to get as fit as them.

Laters,

marz

Preston Crawford said:

Just wanted to solicit some advice. The last year or so I've started to
experience lower back pain here and there. I've been re-fit on my
current road bike, a heavily modified Trek 1000. This is the one where
they had to put in a quill stem on a model that usually takes a
threadless head. It was innovative and did the job, but with the back
problems lingering and with some thumb and wrist issues (light carpal
tunnel and tendonitis of the thumbs) I'm starting to wonder if there
might be a better cycling solution.

I (if you don't remember or know me) mainly cycle commute. I bike about
15 miles a day. I used to bike about 35 miles a day back when I was 26.
Now I'm 31. Now I know there are lots of things probably going on.
Everything from the ergonomics of my workstation at work to other
activities. I know this and, believe me, I'm working on these areas as
well. However, I thought it might also be worth asking about my biking
situation as well.

For what it's worth. I ride mostly in the hoods or on the top bar of my
road bike. I never get into the drops. It's too far to stretch without
causing major back problems these days. So I mostly ride in the hoods.
On one hand (no pun intended) I can see how that might cause some
problems with regards to my wrists and my thumb. On the other hand, I
can see how a flat bar might be a problem as well, since then my wrists
would be turned at an angle. I also wonder about a more naturally
upright bike like a touring bike or a mountain bike. But then I worry
about the handle bars again.

I guess the bottom line is that it would be nice to find the best bike,
that to do long distances comfortable and at a decent clip (i.e. no 3
speed comfort banana bikes), but yet be kinder to my ailments.

For the record, cycling doesn't seem to aggravate either ailment alone.
These exist with or without cycling. Meaning if I take a break I will
still have back pain or hand pain. And sometimes when I bike the back
pain gets better (although the hoods do seem to cause the thumb pain to
get worse).

So what would be the optimal solution? And I know this is subjective,
but I want to keep biking and I want to do so with less frequent pain.
Any suggestions about a bike that might be a better fit would be
appreciated.

Preston

Well I feel you on the back issues.
For me it's all about bar height. I ride a highly modified Raleigh
hybrid c200.
With all my experimenting I have found that with the origianl set up I
was too upright and un-aerodynamic. It was tough to get much over 14mph.

Now I have settled on a flat bar set at about the same height as the
saddle with cut down (narrowed) flat bars, which puts my hands closer to
the center than the original position of the bars (about 2 inches) but
probably still a little wider than the bar top on a set of drops.

Another thing I noticed was the angle of the saddle. I had to angle mine
upwards slightly, this keeps me from sliding down the nose of the saddle
and putting extra pressure on my hands and wrists.

Hope you get it figured out. Or find a bike that fits you better for
your back.

Ken
--
New cycling jersey: $49
new cycling shorts: $39
Not being a slave to the petrol pump: priceless.

"Marz" wrote: STFU and go ride. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you're the
same age as my younger brother and he keeps whinging about aches and pains.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why so harsh, Marz? If you feel hostility toward your brother, that's
between you and him--why take it out on Preston? I'm 78, and my back
doesn't hurt, but my 78 year old brain can understand that not everyone is
that lucky.

Leo Lichtman said:

"Marz" wrote: STFU and go ride. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you're the
same age as my younger brother and he keeps whinging about aches and pains.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why so harsh, Marz? If you feel hostility toward your brother, that's
between you and him--why take it out on Preston? I'm 78, and my back
doesn't hurt, but my 78 year old brain can understand that not everyone is
that lucky.

Having reread what I wrote and having read like a No1 a-hole; major
apologies to the Preston. I guess I'd just come out of the gym and was
low on sugars.

Laters,

Marz

Mike Jacoubowsky said:

Remind me again how tall you are?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

6'1", but I have a 30" inseam. So I have a tall upper body.

Preston

Marz said:

Leo Lichtman said:

"Marz" wrote: STFU and go ride. Sorry to sound so harsh, but you're the
same age as my younger brother and he keeps whinging about aches and pains.
(clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why so harsh, Marz? If you feel hostility toward your brother, that's
between you and him--why take it out on Preston? I'm 78, and my back
doesn't hurt, but my 78 year old brain can understand that not everyone is
that lucky.

Having reread what I wrote and having read like a No1 a-hole; major
apologies to the Preston. I guess I'd just come out of the gym and was
low on sugars.

Laters,

Marz

Thanks for standing up for common sense, Leo. As far as you go, Marz....
Harsh, but no hard feelings. It's the Internet. Not like I haven't
spouted off and said something I regretted later at one time. So no
worries.

I do get treated for this. I think part of the problem is I DON'T act
like I'm crippled. I keep cycling, programming, etc. through all the
pain. I do get my workstation taken care of. I wear braces when I work
and other times. In the end, though, the damage is real. The pain is
real. And I do have to mitigate it in whatever ways I can.

Preston

Booker C Bense said:

_ You should look at bikes like the Trek Pilot or Specialized
Sequoia. A compact frame that was designed to get the handlebars
at seat height or higher. You might also look at some "womens"

Those are models I've considered. I've asked my fit guy to take the
measurements off the fitting he did and come up with bikes, regardless
of the model or type that are closer to where I'm at physically.
Obviously a Trek 1000 is way off and was an ill conceived choice at the
time.

Quoted message said:

_ If you can't ride comfortably in the drops, then the bike
doesn't fit no matter what. IMHO, if you can't ride in the
drops then there is very little point in riding a drop bar
bike.

Well, yes and no. I get your point. For me, though I never bought a road
bike for the drops. My initial draw was this. I didn't have much money
so it was a quick way to get the wheel size I wanted coupled with
handlebars that seemed more appropriate. And by that I mean my wrists at
a straight angle as opposed to being turned 90 degrees inward. So that's
part of what I'm trying to suss out here. If I had a bike that was the
right height and fit what would be better for me? Riding in the hoods or
riding on a flat handlebar. When I bought the bike I would have said the
hoods. But right now there's a lot of pressure on that joint (where the
thumb meets the hand. So now I'm not so sure. I liked those handlebars
that someone else showed where they swooped back old school style with
the shifters on the end. Something tells me, though, that I couldn't get
those on a bike with any kind of chance at going over 10mph.

Preston