Topolino vs. Kysriums SL

"Larry Elfenbein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a lot lighter with a carbon hub.

Any comments?

How much do YOU weigh? Alternatively, are you hard on wheels? If so, you may want something more
durable. After all, one of the worse things is to have one of these fancy boutique wheels breakdown
on a nice ride. As for the weight of the wheels, you could build something using Campy
Record/Chorus/Dura Ace hubs, DT or Wheelsmith db spokes and any number of
28/32/36h clincher rims available that will come very close and be alot more durable and easily
repairable. Find and talk to a good wheelbuilder near you or if none, contact Peter Chisholm
at www.vecchio.com

Weight 182 lbs. and am told that Topolinos support that weight.

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Larry Elfenbein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a lot

lighter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a carbon hub.

Any comments?

How much do YOU weigh? Alternatively, are you hard on wheels? If so, you

may

Quoted message said:

want something more durable. After all, one of the worse things is to have one of these fancy
boutique wheels breakdown on a nice ride. As for the weight of the wheels, you could build
something using Campy Record/Chorus/Dura Ace hubs, DT or Wheelsmith db spokes and any number of
28/32/36h clincher rims available that will come very close and be alot

more

Quoted message said:

durable and easily repairable. Find and talk to a good wheelbuilder near

you

Quoted message said:

or if none, contact Peter Chisholm at www.vecchio.com

"bfd" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Larry Elfenbein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a lot

lighter

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

with a carbon hub.

Any comments?

How much do YOU weigh? Alternatively, are you hard on wheels? If so, you

may

Quoted message said:

want something more durable. After all, one of the worse things is to have one of these fancy
boutique wheels breakdown on a nice ride. As for the weight of the wheels, you could build
something using Campy Record/Chorus/Dura Ace hubs, DT or Wheelsmith db spokes and any number of
28/32/36h clincher rims available that will come very close and be alot

more

Quoted message said:

durable and easily repairable. Find and talk to a good wheelbuilder near

you

Quoted message said:

or if none, contact Peter Chisholm at www.vecchio.com

You know, you're right to ask, "what do YOU weigh?" That's always the best place to shave a few
grams or more. But I'm really fed up with the standard "fancy boutique wheels will break down and
strand you" line of [censored]. It's just that ... [censored].

I've had more problems with custom-built wheels using "standard" components than I've ever had with
any of the "boutique" wheels I've owned. Mavic Open Pro rims/DT Revolutions spokes (28f/32r)/Chris
King hubs and they broke spokes and stranded me several times. Velocity Aerohead rims/DT Revolution
spokes/Sun Ringle Son of Bubba hubs and the hub flange breaks while I'm doing 35 mph on the rollers.
Wheels are only a couple of months old. I was lucky that didn't kill me. I've never had an incident
even close to that with my Velomax or Spinergy or Mavic "boutique" wheelsets. Oh, and the one time I
had Vecchios quote me a price for a decent set of "non-boutique" wheels, the price knocked my socks
off ... and not in a good way!

This anti-"boutique" wheel argument is really old and stale.

Bob C.

Robert Chambers said:

You know, you're right to ask, "what do YOU weigh?" That's always the best place to shave a few
grams or more. But I'm really fed up with the standard "fancy boutique wheels will break down and
strand you" line of [censored]. It's just that ... [censored].

I've had more problems with custom-built wheels using "standard" components than I've ever had with
any of the "boutique" wheels I've owned. Mavic Open Pro rims/DT Revolutions spokes (28f/32r)/Chris
King hubs and they broke spokes and stranded me several times.

Revolution spokes are in the "stupidlight" category. You'll be hard-pressed to find anyone in r.b.t.
to recommend them for most riding.

Quoted message said:

Velocity Aerohead rims/DT Revolution spokes/Sun Ringle Son of Bubba hubs and the hub flange
breaks while I'm doing 35 mph on the rollers. Wheels are only a couple of months old. I was lucky
that didn't kill me.

How can you die on rollers? Anyway, was the wheel that broke radial laced?

Quoted message said:

I've never had an incident even close to that with my Velomax or Spinergy or Mavic "boutique"
wheelsets. Oh, and the one time I had Vecchios quote me a price for a decent set of "non-boutique"
wheels, the price knocked my socks off ... and not in a good way!

I don't think Peter can build a pair of wheels that cost as much as a pair of Ksyriums.

Quoted message said:

This anti-"boutique" wheel argument is really old and stale.

There are some that aren't bad values - but a lot that are really horrible in terms of value,
reliability, repairability and even performance. FWIW, I like the Campy "botique" wheels which start
at about the same price as "normal wheels" built with Chorus or Record hubs. They come in Shimano
flavor now, too...

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Quoted message said:

I don't think Peter can build a pair of wheels that cost as much as a pair of Ksyriums.

You start with a pair of Chris King hubs...

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles chainreactionbicycles.comchainreactionbicycles.comOpen ↗

larpup-<< Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a lot lighter with a
carbon hub.

Any comments? >><BR><BR>

Yep, find a good wheelbuilder who can design a wheelset specifically for you and your needs that
will be- -as reliable or more -as light and aero or more -use standard and not expensive,
propriatary parts that may not be around in a few years(pen holder??) -CHEAPER(by maybe $300+)

Hard to beat a well made, custom wheelset, still..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

No,

The web site states it. Whose' looking for a free lunch anyway?

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

larry-<< Weight 182 lbs. and am told that Topolinos support that weight.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

<BR><BR>

Did the salesman tell ya that?

'no such thing as a free lunch'-

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Thank you all for your comments, however, everyone has basically dodged the question. Perhaps you
are not familiar with either wheelset. I realize the advantages of getting a wheel built. I have
also spoken to quite a few friends that are extremely happy with their Mavics. Topolinos, I don't
know about however, I think the Topolino concept makes sense, that's all. A spoke crossing the hub,
to me, seems to provide a more stable way of creating the mousetrap. Comments on this would be
appreciated.

I just a good wheelset that will last and provide excellent performance with light weight. I was
steered towards both of these. Now, does anyone have any comments regarding either of these
wheelsets?

LarPup

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

larpup-<< Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a

lot

Quoted message said:

lighter with a carbon hub.

Any comments? >><BR><BR>

Yep, find a good wheelbuilder who can design a wheelset specifically for

you

Quoted message said:

and your needs that will be- -as reliable or more -as light and aero or more -use standard and not
expensive, propriatary parts that may not be around

in a

Quoted message said:

few years(pen holder??) -CHEAPER(by maybe $300+)

Hard to beat a well made, custom wheelset, still..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Quoted post said:

Originally posted by Larry Elfenbein


Now, does anyone have any comments regarding either of these
wheelsets?

LarPup

Yeah, they're not as good as Bontragers.

Larry, granted that I don't really having much experience with the Topolinos, I would still go with
the Mavics. Main reason is "proof-of-design" - you will be able to service this wheelset for a very
long time, while the Topolinos might go out of fashion and you would be stuck in
"well-without-water-ville" looking for spare parts and service.

The Mavics have been proven as a workhorse for a lot of pros, even given it's boutique-wheel status,
something which I don't adhere to anyways. I weigh 200lbs and my 16-spoke Shimano's have held up
fine and is running strong...(but I have quite a set of spare parts in my closet for in case!!!).
Point being that the Mavics have been around longer and seem to be fine for another while longer.

"Larry Elfenbein" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Thank you all for your comments, however, everyone has basically dodged

the

Quoted message said:

question. Perhaps you are not familiar with either wheelset. I realize the advantages of getting a
wheel built. I have also spoken to quite a few friends that are extremely happy with their Mavics.
Topolinos, I don't

know

Quoted message said:

about however, I think the Topolino concept makes sense, that's all. A

spoke

Quoted message said:

crossing the hub, to me, seems to provide a more stable way of creating

the

Quoted message said:

mousetrap. Comments on this would be appreciated.

I just a good wheelset that will last and provide excellent performance with light weight. I was
steered towards both of these. Now, does anyone have any comments regarding either of these
wheelsets?

LarPup

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

larpup-<< Any comments. The Topolinos seem to make sense and they are a

lot

Quoted message said:

lighter with a carbon hub.

Any comments? >><BR><BR>

Yep, find a good wheelbuilder who can design a wheelset specifically for

you

Quoted message said:

and your needs that will be- -as reliable or more -as light and aero or more -use standard and
not expensive, propriatary parts that may not be

around

Quoted message said:

in a

Quoted message said:

few years(pen holder??) -CHEAPER(by maybe $300+)

Hard to beat a well made, custom wheelset, still..

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 vecchios.comvecchios.comOpen ↗ "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

larpup-<< I just a good wheelset that will last and provide excellent performance with light
weight. I was steered towards both of these. Now, does anyone have any comments regarding either of
these wheelsets? >><BR><BR>

Neither are very light...weigh them or take the info at face value. Kysriums are about 1600 grams,
like a normal wheelset.

But they make up for that by being less aero than a real aero wheel, by being difficult to repair,
and by being horrendously expensive. ;-)

I think the draw of the Ksyrium wheels is that they're the current "fad wheel" - kind of like the
Helium was a few years ago (another decent but unexceptional wheel that cost far too much). If you
really want Ksyriums, just wait until the next fad wheel hits the street and you can buy used ones
for a song... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles habcycles.comhabcycles.comOpen ↗ Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey said:

(Qui si parla Campagnolo) said:

larpup-<< I just a good wheelset that will last and provide excellent performance with light
weight. I was steered towards both of these. Now, does anyone have any comments regarding either
of these wheelsets? >><BR><BR>

Neither are very light...weigh them or take the info at face value. Kysriums are about 1600
grams, like a normal wheelset.

But they make up for that by being less aero than a real aero wheel, by being difficult to repair,
and by being horrendously expensive. ;-)

I think the draw of the Ksyrium wheels is that they're the current "fad wheel" - kind of like the
Helium was a few years ago (another decent but unexceptional wheel that cost far too much). If you
really want Ksyriums, just wait until the next fad wheel hits the street and you can buy used ones
for a song... ;-)

all of which comes back to the point of getting the right wheels to do the job, except the somewhat
snide comment on them being "less aero than real aero". Of course they're not! They were designed to
be an all rounder lightweight wheelset (for racers & poseurs) and they fulfil both functions
exceptionally well. They're deeper profile than some, yes, lighter than many, stronger than a lot of
wheels, expensive, and (guess what) not for everybody. To the OP: I'm dubious about Kysrium's
ability to stand up to the regular beating a guy of your weight will give them week in week out on
all kinds of road surfaces. If you care to take the chance on costly wheels, it's only money.

You'll hear all kinds of [censored]; so if at all possible borrow a pair from a friend and try them out
for a ride. I love my Kysriums (SSC SL) but I still have reservations in some riding conditions.
They seem skittish and overly nimble on wet roads, but in the dry on the same roads they're
unbeatable... you get told they're stiff and unforgiving, but that's a bunch of [censored]. This is aside
from frame, forks, bike setup, and the all important tyre choice and pressure. They've also been
bulletproof for 2500km so longevity is something to consider for me, but the bearings are the
smoothest thing out there and unmatched IMO. My biggest problem has been solving the "creaking front
wheel" whereas on my previous wheelset (Sachs hub/Mavic Open Pro rims) I'd broken 2 non drive rear
spokes after 2500... I'm about 80kg (175lb) and not a particularly aggressive rider. Kysriums do
'reef' in cross winds, but a capable rider can work with this. They ARE expensive, no question, but
they are not a 'stupid silly light' wheelset, as a favourite line has it; they seem very robustly
manufactured. Topolino wheels I don't know, but my choices for factory wheelsets came down to
Kysriums or Bontrager Racelites. A mate of mine who weighs over 95kg rides on the Bontragers and
loves them, and they've stood up really well under his Trek. Me, I went the other way partly because
Kysriums are better known and supported by more bike shops in these parts whereas for Bonti's you
have to go to a Trek dealer, and my LBS is not. Cost between the two was very similar. I went
Kysrium because there's a little bit of the poseur in all of us (& waiting for the indignant
denials...)

--
Alex Wheaton