Road Cycling · Public discussion

Keep your e-mail mungled.

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Road Cycling
Published
19 September 2003
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14 October 2003
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Buck
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  1. Buck said:


    Everyone beware. Keep your address mungled in some fashion. Add extra words or spaces into the
    address both in your newsgroup client and in the message itself. It's turning into a jungle
    out there.

    When you register with Google to post messages to groups like this one, you are informed as follows:

    "We require a valid email address to post to Google Groups. If you don't want your normal email
    address to be listed, we encourage you to sign up for an anonymous account with one of the many
    free email services available on the web and to post from that account. You can find a list of
    such services by conducting a Google search, or just clicking here."

    So how can you mungle your address? I'd prefer to do that rather than setting up a separate
    spam-sink address, but it's not clear to me how it's done...

  2. "Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    what i can't figure out is why no one thinks to hold microsoft


    responsible

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for their [censored] coding practices. instead the DOJ holds press


    conferences

    Quoted message said:

    featuring microsoft "security experts". my god that's good PR!

    i'm getting about 50-75 an hour. postini isn't getting them and neither


    is

    Quoted message said:

    spamassassin. but procmail is, thank god they're easy to regex for.


    This isn't a Microsoft coding problem. This is someone trying to get you to open an email and run
    a program. Microsoft is not responsible if someone were to run format.com on their computer. It is
    up to you personally to decide which programs you want to run.

    Except that this one CAN run if you are have IE 5.x and do not have it patched properly. If you use
    the preview pane in outlook, and have an unpatched computer, it will install itself and start
    spamming. It can also propogate through file-sharing programs (think Kazaa), through internet relay
    chat, and it apparently can pick up unmungled e-mail addresses from usenet (this is my experience
    with a 24-hr old address that had never been used, but posted once on a newsgroup).

    -Buck

  3. "Mark Jones" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    "David Reuteler" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    what i can't figure out is why no one thinks to hold microsoft


    responsible

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    for their [censored] coding practices. instead the DOJ holds press


    conferences

    Quoted message said:

    featuring microsoft "security experts". my god that's good PR!

    i'm getting about 50-75 an hour. postini isn't getting them and neither


    is

    Quoted message said:

    spamassassin. but procmail is, thank god they're easy to regex for.


    This isn't a Microsoft coding problem. This is someone trying to get you to open an email and run
    a program. Microsoft is not responsible if someone were to run format.com on their computer. It is
    up to you personally to decide which programs you want to run.

    The thing will run its self too if you have older IE's 5.01 ?

  4. Mark Jones <[email hidden]> wrote:
    : This isn't a Microsoft coding problem. This is someone trying to get you to open an email and run
    : a program. Microsoft is not responsible if someone were to run format.com on their computer. It is
    : up to you personally to decide which programs you want to run.

    hey, that's a great idea. why not include format.com as an email attachment? outlook would
    undoubtedly run it.
    --
    david reuteler [email hidden]

  5. Yea, Eric I agree, but it gets to be a real pain when you suddenly go from an average of 10 to 12
    emails a day to over a thousand...

    Eric S. Sande said:
    Quoted message said:

    Everyone beware. Keep your address mungled in some fashion.

    Why bother. I'm not ashamed of anything I post and it's easy to reply to me if you choose to do
    so, the spam is easily deleted.

    Just delete it.

    The whole point of the Internet is open access, this might seem naive but it's more clever than
    stupid if you think about it.

    --

    _______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________ ------------------"Buddy Holly,
    the Texas Elvis"------------------
    __________306.350.357.38>>[email hidden]__________

    --

    Tp

    -------- __o ----- -\<. ------ __o --- ( ) / ( ) ---- -\<. ----------------- ( ) / ( )
    ---------------------------------------------

    Freedom is not free; Free men are not equal; Equal men are not free.

  6. Been pretty happy with this program:

    mailwasher.netmailwasher.net

    I like the auto-delete & auto-bounce feature, and the fact that you can set up a 'friends'
    list that will - for example - let mail from your brother at hotmail.com through while
    deleting and bouncing every other e-mail that comes from hotmail.com.

  7. In article <[email hidden]>, [email hidden] (Claire

    Petersky) said:

    "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]> wrote in message


    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Everyone beware. Keep your address mungled in some fashion.

    Why bother. I'm not ashamed of anything I post and it's easy to reply to me if you choose to do
    so, the spam is easily deleted.

    Just delete it.

    The whole point of the Internet is open access, this might seem naive but it's more clever than
    stupid if you think about it.

    Just delete it! Eric, in the last 24 hours I have received, I would estimate, approximately 800
    copies of this %$#@& worm! Each one is ~150kb. My yahoo in-box holds about 5mb at this time. I
    have had to go to my in-box on the order of every two or three minutes to keep the thing from
    completely overflowing and shutting out all other mail. It's been probably 10 minutes since I last
    flushed it out, and god knows, it's probably completely jammed again.

    Just delete it? Eric, would you like to camp in front of my computer all day, and do nothing but
    delete it, all day long? That's what yesterday largely looked like. Plus I got a flat on the way
    home. And my period, too, to cap it.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire too [censored] for a sig this morning, just deal

    This morning, I got 100 emails! Later, when I got back from my ride- another 60!

  8. "J. Cohn" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    When you register with Google to post messages to groups like this one, you are informed as
    follows:

    "We require a valid email address to post to Google Groups. If you don't want your normal
    email address to be listed, we encourage you to sign up for an anonymous account with one of
    the many free email services available on the web and to post from that account. You can find
    a list of such services by conducting a Google search, or just clicking here."

    So how can you mungle your address? I'd prefer to do that rather than setting up a separate
    spam-sink address, but it's not clear to me how it's done...

    Well, start by not using Google to post to usenet. There are plenty of free usenet readers available
    (try this link: mnsi.netnews.htm, Free Agent is a pretty
    good one.)

    Many people just use Outlook Express since it is free and comes with Windows.

    Mungling is easy enough. When you set up your usenet reader, you will be asked for your e-mail
    address. Just add a catchy phrase into the middle of it and you are done. If the phrase isn't
    obvious to readers, then add instructions for removing the mungle to every post you make (place it
    in your signature).

    -Buck

  9. [email hidden] (Marlene Blanshay) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    TEll me about it, I'm getting bombarded with those dumb emails and the endless attachments. I'm a
    mac so I don't think the virus would affect me, but I'm constantly having to delete those &^%$$*
    attachments. When will this end???

    It's clear that our addys are being harvested off of usenet. A quick tour around various newsgroups
    shows that everyone's talking about it. What's funny is some newsgroups think paranoically that they
    are being specifically targetted, because they work in computers, or have certain political
    leanings, or whatever. But I doubt that there's someone who's targetting specifically tennis
    players, cyclists, video arcade collectors, those interested in ghost stories, Australian PC users,
    etc. -- more likely, it's everyone who posts to usenet is being hit.

    Another interesting phenom is people in a newsgroup accusing other newsgroup members of being
    dumb enough to click on the dang thing, rather than realizing that everyone is being hit by a
    third party.

    I can't wait until the ISP's drive a spike into the heart of this thing. What a mood to go into
    S'lihot with.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky ([email hidden]) Home of the meditative cyclist:
    home.earthlink.netWelcome.htm

    Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at: bookcrossing.comCpetersky

  10. J. Cohn said:


    So how can you mungle your address? I'd prefer to do that rather than setting up a separate
    spam-sink address, but it's not clear to me how it's done...

    It's really quite simple - YOU DON'T

    Munging is a bad bad bad bad bad idea.

    The person who posted a virgin address to a "forsale" newsgroup found

    yourself soon deluged.

    If you absolutely feel the need to do something stupid and want to mung your address keep a clean
    and valid address in your reply-to line, for some reason despite the fact that people have been
    doing this for years the bots don't pick up on this.

    Sure, you might think itis a nice clever thing but your munged address might just be someone
    else's real address. People have the weirdest email addresses. And, every single mail that is sent
    to your munged address is now a double waste of bandwidth because some ISP somewhere has to send
    back a bounce.

    There are quite a few ISPs which make munging against the rules in their Terms of Service. But no
    one ever reads the TOS.

    I must be really unpopular. I don't do anything at all. I don't even have a seperate reply-to line
    and I rarely get more than 20 or 30 spam a day with an email address that is nearly 3 years old with
    active use all over the internet and usenet.

    -M

  11. Marian Rosenberg said:

    keep a clean and valid address in your reply-to line, for some reason despite the fact that people
    have been doing this for years the bots don't pick up on this.

    Can anyone else verify this? Seems like a simple solution but I've never done it because it
    seems like it wouldn't work. I've never used a bad address at all (until this message), but
    if it's as simple as just having a valid return address in the 'reply to' field then I'll
    give it a go.

  12. "The C Man" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:
    Marian Rosenberg said:

    keep a clean and valid address in your reply-to line, for some reason despite the fact that
    people have been doing this for years the bots don't pick up on this.

    Can anyone else verify this?

    I've never tried the "reply to" field but many ISPs allow multiple addresses so I just use 3
    addresses:

    1) Least secure - used for newsgroups, and any website, list, etc, whoever you suspect. For received
    emails filter to delete everything that's not a reply to a message you sent. From what's left for
    you to see, open only those you have reason to believe aren't spam/viruses. (When establishing a
    new deletion filter test it by deleting only to the "Deleted" folder or you may lose mail you
    want to see.)

    2) Medium security - for websites & businesses you somewhat trust not to peddle your address. Filter
    as needs develop, open only those you have reason to believe aren't spam/viruses. Delete the
    address and make a new one if too difficult to filter.

    3) Highest security - for trusted friends & colleagues. Open only those you have reason to believe
    aren't spam/viruses.

    I don't have a medium security address yet, but the other two types have been working fine for
    years. I never read any spam/virus but on the least secure account I've been averaging 30 spams
    daily. From the subject lines they are:

    13% from one determined pyramid spam source - "dhs" something, 25% [censored], 50% cheap Canadian drugs.
    (Even more useless than most spam because as a Canadian even if I needed drugs I could pay the same
    price at the corner drug store.)

    But in the past week or so the virus volume has come to double all the other spam combined, so maybe
    100 spam daily now.

    Doug Toronto

  13. On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 05:45:36 -0700, Mark Jones wrote: ...

    Quoted message said:

    This isn't a Microsoft coding problem. This is someone trying to get you to open an email and run
    a program. Microsoft is not responsible if someone were to run format.com on their computer. It is
    up to you personally to decide which programs you want to run.

    Whether or not this is a Microsoft problem depends on semantics, it is a direct result of Microsoft
    software architecture, design, and and marketing. Some of these problems could be fixed by
    Microsoft, others cannot.

    Users should not "Own" the machine. Unix (including Mac OS-X) include a root login that is allowed
    to change the machine. Each use then has a user login that only allows them access to their own
    data. In a Windows machine you need a server or professional level OS to do this. This would greatly
    diminish the damage a worm or virus could do.

    At a more technical level, the architecture of Windows allows programs to inter-operate too tightly
    making it very hard to hide the private parts of programs that should not be accessed. An example of
    this it the IE cannot be removed from Windows by us mortals so all of its security holes are still
    available to rouge programs.

    To make it easy for users, Microsoft turn on features by default. How many computers need a database
    interface? (Very few.) How many people need a database interface open to the Internet? (Nobody.)
    Keep things turned off unless actually needed.

    Untrusted program should run in sandboxes. A sandbox is a special execution environment with very
    restricted capabilities. Java has this capability, but MS refuses to use Java as they do not own or
    control it. This could also be added to Windows, especially to .net, but MS has not done so.
    Instead, MS has disabled embedded executables in email (which is just a well as email is usually
    considered a text format). With this capability an email worm could do any damage.

    Another problem that Windows has is that Windows has been marketed to novices as easy to use so we
    have a lot of clueless users who don't know the basics of computer security. (Suggestions for the
    clueless follow.)

    Windows runs on 90% of all personal computers making them the biggest target. Be less of a target by
    installing Linux or switching to a Mac with OS-X. (Note transition from pitch to call to action.)

    If you must run Windows then:
    - Install a firewall between your computer and DSL or cable modem. A hardware firewall is around
    $50. Close incoming ports, close most outgoing ports (except email, HTTP, and whatever else you
    need), and CHANGE THE PASSWORD of the firewall. If you use a dial-up or cannot get firewall then
    install a software firewall such as zone-alarm (www.zonelabs.com). There is a free version.

    - Loose Outlook. There is a free version of Eudora (www.eudora.com). Other email clients are
    available.

    - Loose IE. Netscape is now an open source browser called Mozilla (www.mozilla.org). It is improving
    rapidly and probably has already surpassed IE in capabilities. If you have to use IE then use the
    security settings to limit what can be run.

    - Keep your machine up to date, use the update feature build into Windows.

    Or better yet, loose Windows.

    If your install of Windows is not licensed then be a legal cheapskate and install Linux.

    Mandrake Linux has a good reputation for beginners, see www.mandrakelinux.com/en/. Red Hat is harder
    to use, but has great emails about when to use their easy update system.

    If you are reading this you already know how to read Usenet so you can get help and advice. Laptops
    are a little trickier, check before install on a laptop. If you need to stay in service while you
    figure out linux then install a dual boot system. You can get information on Linux install, dual
    booting, and hardware compatibilities on the web or at local Linux user groups. Start with
    www.lixux.org for pointers to both. Linux is not bug free, especially the latest stuff (often
    referred to as bleeding-edge). You still need to apply updates and configure your system, but you
    won't be part of the biggest target on the internet.

    The internet is World-wide and speed-of-light. Your system security is the only protection for your
    computer and the data stored on it. On the internet are crackers (black hat hackers), spammers,
    thieves, scammers, spammers, organized crime, and terrorists in places ranging from Russia and the
    old Eastern Block, the Middle East, China and Asia, South America, and even the US. These groups
    will work together. A cracker breaks into a machine to launch other attacks, send spam email, and
    steal any valuable data. Spam email includes scams to try and get credit card number and personal
    data. Personal data is used for identity theft. Credit card numbers are sold to thieves. Terrorists
    also use card numbers to finance their attacks.

    Richard "Red Hat 7.3 migrating to Gentoo Linux" Kaiser

  14. "Marian Rosenberg" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    J. Cohn said:


    So how can you mungle your address? I'd prefer to do that rather than setting up a separate
    spam-sink address, but it's not clear to me how it's done...

    It's really quite simple - YOU DON'T

    Munging is a bad bad bad bad bad idea.

    Please, explain why this is such a bad idea. Right now you come across as the typical worry-wart
    that we all dislike who says "Ooooohhhhh, riding a bicycle without a helmet is a bad bad bad bad
    bad idea."

    Quoted message said:

    The person who posted a virgin address to a "forsale" newsgroup found

    Quoted message said:

    yourself soon deluged.

    Well, the next step of my experiment has come off as expected. I created a second hotmail address
    and posted it to the same "forsale" newsgroup, but mungled it this time. I have yet to receive a
    single piece of spam on that address. Perhaps the spambots are only trolling "forsale" newsgroups.
    If so, this is a good reason to mungle your address when posting there.

    Quoted message said:

    If you absolutely feel the need to do something stupid and want to mung your address keep a clean
    and valid address in your reply-to line, for some reason despite the fact that people have been
    doing this for years the bots don't pick up on this.

    Again, why is this "stupid?" Are you upset about it because you have problems deleting a small
    phrase from an e-mail address? Really, these things are simple and the phrases are highly unlikely
    to actually be someone else's real address. The concern about someone else getting mail for you or
    extra network traffic because of bounced e-mail is just a red herring. By the way, keeping your
    address in the "reply to" line doesn't keep it off the newsgroups. If you look at the top of this
    posting, you will see that many newsreaders grab your address and post it when someone replies to
    you. Perhaps you are correct about the spambots only trolling certain newsgroups. Why don't you test
    your theory by posting on a "forsale" newsgroup? Let us know how your spam mail load changes.

    Quoted message said:

    There are quite a few ISPs which make munging against the rules in their Terms of Service. But no
    one ever reads the TOS.

    Please, point me to a TOS that specifically prohibits munging addresses. The thing that is even more
    ridiculous about this postulation is that munged addresses are obvious by nature
    ([email hidden]) or include instructions for getting the real address. So a posting
    using a munged address will not keep a human being from replying.

    Quoted message said:

    I must be really unpopular. I don't do anything at all. I don't even have a seperate reply-to line
    and I rarely get more than 20 or 30 spam a day with an email address that is nearly 3 years old
    with active use all over the internet and usenet.

    Twenty or thirty a day is too many. Who knows why you don't receive as many. What I do know is that
    I started receiving spam within 24 hours of posting a new address to a newsgroup. Perhaps you are
    saying that I shouldn't participate in that group? That is another ridiculous stance to take when
    you are encouraging open participation in every other instance. I was lucky to keep my old
    galaxycorp address free from spam for a couple of years. Then the spam ballooned to several hundred
    per day over the course of a couple of months. I use several valid addresses now. The ones that get
    spam are the ones I use with some of the popular websites (i.e. Monster.com). My munged address that
    I use on usenet doesn't get any at all. So, go ahead and call this strategy whatever you like. I'll
    keep using it and advise others to do so as well.

    -Buck

  15. "Doug Purdy" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:wHibb.58522

    Quoted message said:

    2) Medium security - for websites & businesses you somewhat trust not to peddle your address.
    Filter as needs develop, open only those you have reason to believe aren't spam/viruses. Delete
    the address and make a new


    one

    Quoted message said:

    if too difficult to filter.

    Some ISPs allow for as many e-mail addresses as you want/need. I have been using this feature to
    create a new e-mail address for each website I decide to "trust." For example, my monster.com
    address is [email hidden]. Now I can track which websites can and which
    websites cannot be trusted.

    -Buck

  16. In article <[email hidden]>, Claire Petersky

    Quoted message said:

    What's funny is some newsgroups think paranoically that they are being specifically targetted,
    because they work in computers, or have certain political leanings, or whatever. But I doubt that
    there's someone who's targetting specifically tennis players, cyclists, video arcade collectors,
    those interested in ghost stories, Australian PC users, etc. -- more likely, it's everyone who
    posts to usenet is being hit.

    Yes and no. There are some smaller spammers, who target their product to a more limited audience.
    Their product tends be more reputable than the ones that grow body parts, make you loose weight,
    etc. They may even harvest addreses manually. Their spam, however, composes less than one percent of
    the average person's spam.

    --
    --
    LITTLE KNOWN FACT: Did you know that 81% of North Americans cannot taste the difference between
    fried dog and fried cat?

  17. Eric S. Sande said:
    Quoted message said:

    Everyone beware. Keep your address mungled in some fashion.

    Why bother. I'm not ashamed of anything I post and it's easy to reply to me if you choose to do so,
    the spam is easily deleted.

    Just delete it.

    I used to do this, using a webmail account in my Usenet headers so that all the spam would be
    concentrated in one inconspicuous place. I'd get maybe a dozen or so spam messages per day.

    Then this latest worm came out. One morning my webmail account was 97% full, almost entirely with
    "Microsoft patches" and "error messages." I deleted all the messages, and a few hours later my
    account was 85% full again.

    Well, screw that. I reset my webmail account to only accept mail from approved addresses and put a
    fake address in my newsgroup headers.

    If anyone needs to e-mail me, I'll give them a different address privately. If someone doesn't want
    to reply to me on the newsgroup, then I really don't need to hear from them. Anyway, no one has
    e-mailed me in response to a newsgroup posting in years.

    Quoted message said:

    The whole point of the Internet is open access, this might seem naive but it's more clever than
    stupid if you think about it.

    Sorry, but you can't have open access to my e-mail accounts.

    --
    "Tradition means giving votes to the most obscure of all classes--our ancestors. It is the democracy
    of the dead. Tradition refuses to submit to the small and arrogant oligarchy of those who merely
    happen to be walking around."
    -- G.K. Chesterton

  18. [email hidden] (Pete Hickey) wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:

    In article <[email hidden]>, Claire Petersky

    Quoted message said:

    What's funny is some newsgroups think paranoically that they are being specifically targetted,
    because they work in computers, or have certain political leanings, or whatever. But I doubt that
    there's someone who's targetting specifically tennis players, cyclists, video arcade collectors,
    those interested in ghost stories, Australian PC users, etc. -- more likely, it's everyone who
    posts to usenet is being hit.

    Yes and no. There are some smaller spammers, who target their product to a more limited audience.

    I'm not talking about spammers, I'm talking about this *&^%$#@ worm message. If you haven't been
    hit, you don't know what I'm talking about. This is not the usual 50 little pieces of daily spam
    that ends up in your bulk mail folder telling you of penis enlargement, human growth hormone, and
    opportunities to free money from Nigerian bank accounts. This is hundreds and hundreds of 150+ KB
    messages that overwhelm your mailbox in 45 minutes. Yes, some people are getting these, a few,
    because they have inane acquaintances that click on the attachment. Then there's the rest of us who
    are getting them because whoever set up this worm is not just using that method of propagation, but
    also harvesting our email addresses off of Usenet -- it's the only possible reason for this deluge.
    And it's not just going to the members of comp.sys.cbm or alt.underground, it's going to all of us.
    If you haven't had to log on all weekend long every hour or so, just to keep your mailboxes from
    exploding, you don't have a grasp of the problem.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire Petersky Home of the meditative cyclist: home.earthlink.netWelcome.htm
    Singing with you at: tiferet.nettiferet.net Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
    bookcrossing.comCpetersky

  19. Claire Petersky said:

    "Eric S. Sande" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:<[email hidden]>...

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    Everyone beware. Keep your address mungled in some fashion.

    Why bother. I'm not ashamed of anything I post and it's easy to reply to me if you choose to do
    so, the spam is easily deleted.

    Just delete it.

    The whole point of the Internet is open access, this might seem naive but it's more clever than
    stupid if you think about it.

    Just delete it! Eric, in the last 24 hours I have received, I would estimate, approximately 800
    copies of this %$#@& worm! Each one is ~150kb. My yahoo in-box holds about 5mb at this time. I
    have had to go to my in-box on the order of every two or three minutes to keep the thing from
    completely overflowing and shutting out all other mail. It's been probably 10 minutes since I last
    flushed it out, and god knows, it's probably completely jammed again.

    Just delete it? Eric, would you like to camp in front of my computer all day, and do nothing but
    delete it, all day long? That's what yesterday largely looked like. Plus I got a flat on the way
    home. And my period, too, to cap it.

    Warm Regards,

    Claire too [censored] for a sig this morning, just deal

    The following was crossposted to the tech forum:

    Quoted message said:

    If a Swen worm infests a machine that has an extensive unpurged


    newsreader, the addresses it finds *will* be pounded.

    Boy, have I been getting a pounding. Swollowed my pride and changed my original address. As you can
    see the new one is munged.

    Kenny Lee

    --
    Delete "nomospam" from the return address in your reply.

  20. David Reuteler said:

    what i can't figure out is why no one thinks to hold microsoft responsible for their [censored] coding
    practices. instead the DOJ holds press

    ...and why doesn't Microsoft ship Outlook and Outlook Express with scripting disabled by default?
    Anybody I know who is capable of using it would rather use some other email client anyway.

    Quoted message said:

    spamassassin. but procmail is, thank god they're easy to regex for.

    I used to use Inflex with Sendmail. I filtered a 75-employee office on a 486sx mail server, back
    when loveletter was recent.

    --
    Rick Onanian

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