Aching muscles or busted lungs

Sky Fly said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

I've always thought that if you're doing it right you get aching legs *and* aching lungs,
but ICBW....

--
Guy
===
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"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

At 13 or 14 my nephew (not a candidate for Brain of Britain) had not got the hang of using his
gears. The slightest hill up would involve much grinding and graunching as his Halford's special was
changed to the granny and lowest gear. Then, for the downhills (again, however slight) it was the
big ring and high gear. He only needed two gears -- high & low!!

While I am not suggesting you are anything like as drastic in your gear selection, it does sound as
if you need to find a happy medium where you can pedal comfortably and within your best cadence.

Someone recently reported -- it may have been Guy while playing on the dark side -- that his comfort
range was relatively much smaller than he had anticipated -- something like 85 to 90 rpm and that
outside this range he changed gear.

It sounds as if you, too, need to find your cadence comfort zone and stick with it.

As I understand it hyperventilating is when you are breathing too fast to be able to get enough
oxygen into your lungs -- in this case you are unlikely to be able to continue for very long without
blacking out!!

T

"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

No, just go up slower. Really.

I'd tend not to go for bad legs and knees, that could put you out of action for weeks. If you look
at stuff on training, you might not get much benefit from going really over the top as you describe
in pedalling too fast.

BTW - I used to live on a road with about 4 miles of uninterupted hill and a couple of >15%
sections. I prefer the flat.

i always get both, indeed u should add feeling sick to the list...

1. aching - dead - legs

2. inability to breath properly

3. feeling sick as a sick dog having a sick day

panda

"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

Quoted message said:

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

You have a choice??? Da*n - I get knackered lungs and legs!

Cheers, helen s (Radox Queen)

~~~~~~~~~~
Flush out that intestinal parasite and/or the waste product before sending a reply!

Any speeliong mistake$ aR the resiult of my cats sitting on the keyboaRRRDdd
~~~~~~~~~~

Sky Fly said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating.

(Or breathing heavily not actually hyperventilating)

That's the one I opt for. Maybe my lungs are better than my legs.

Quoted message said:

Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces my cadence, and thus my breathing rate
comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

There is a third way, but it's slow and boring: Use really really low gears.

~PB

In article <[email hidden]>, one of infinite monkeys at the keyboard of

Just zis Guy said:

I've always thought that if you're doing it right you get aching legs *and* aching lungs, but
ICBW....

Nah. Some of us like our bodily comforts. I find slowing down a useful choice when the lack of
fitness begins to dominate.

--
Wear your paunch with pride!

"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

In any machine, force x speed = power. Your legs notice the force & speed components but your heart
& lungs notice the power component. What happens when dropping a gear is that leg force reduces and
(pedal) speed increases. But does the product go up or down?

I found the problem on a long climb was to "listen" to my legs. I would choose a gear to reach a
comfortable force component but allow the speed to rise. The power component (heart rate) has no
direct feedback until too late when exhaustion sets in.

It is necessary to complete the triangle. I used an HRM. To ride at a comfortable heart rate on a
long hill may mean going slower or using an even lower gear than expected.

David Roberts

Tony W said:

As I understand it hyperventilating is when you are breathing too fast to be able to get enough
oxygen into your lungs -- in this case you are unlikely to be able to continue for very long
without blacking out!!

I'm not a medic but I think hyperventilating is when you breathe sufficiently fast to remove CO2
from the body faster than your body is producing it.

Typical resting pCO2 is about 40mmHg. With hyperventilating this can be reduced to about 30mmHg. The
"must breathe" reflex occurs at about 50mmHg.

But, because normal blood is about 97-98% oxygenated, the hyperventilating doesn't
(significantly) increase the O2 available to the body but it can double the time before the "must
breathe" feeling occurs.

Particularly when swimming underwater this can mean that people can hold their breath until they
blackout, often with fatal concequences.

On a bike I suppose the eventual result could also be a blackout (leading to a fall) but I would
expect it might actually be quite hard to hyperventilate normally. At the end of a downhill prior to
going uphill might be possible - I don't know if this would be possible and I'm not going to try!

The only time I have ever hyperventilated (accidentally) was when (trying) to play a flute. There is
no resistance to the blow and, unless you are doing it properly, most of the air doesn't produce
much if any effect on the instrument so you end up blowing very hard for very little effect. It was
when I stopped that I started feeling very light headed - presumably I wasn't breathing enough.

Regards,

Tim.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t," and there was light.

tjw.hn.orgtjw.hn.orgOpen ↗ locofungus.btinternet.co.uklocofungus.btinternet.co.ukOpen ↗

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

But, because normal blood is about 97-98% oxygenated, the hyperventilating doesn't
(significantly) increase the O2 available to the body but it can double the time before the "must
breathe" feeling occurs.

Odd thing. Try breathing really hard and you'll get some sort of oxygen narcotic effect. I do this
when trying to do lengths underwater (short camp site pools!). You get further, but this might be to
do with oxygen stored in muscles.

Anyway, breathing really hard after climbing a hill is just breathing really hard.

"Tim Woodall" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
"]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Tony W said:

As I understand it hyperventilating is when you are breathing too fast

to be

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

able to get enough oxygen into your lungs -- in this case you are

unlikely

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

to be able to continue for very long without blacking out!!

I'm not a medic but I think hyperventilating is when you breathe sufficiently fast to remove CO2
from the body faster than your body is producing it.

Snip

I suspect the OP may have been misusing the term hyperventilate to just mean breathing fast & heavy
-- i.e. indicating he was putting a lot of effort into cycling fast up the hill.

I may be wrong -- I often am!!

(That one statement proves I am NOT P Smith & I claim my 10 GBP!!!)

T

(Nick Kew) said:

Quoted message said:

I've always thought that if you're doing it right you get aching legs *and* aching lungs, but
ICBW....

Nah. Some of us like our bodily comforts. I find slowing down a useful choice when the lack of
fitness begins to dominate.

Tchah! I bet you're one of these people who uses a turbo trainer instead of going out and getting
wet and cold like a Real Man (tm).

Guy
===
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G S Banner said:

As a matter of interest (not personal, I hasten to add!) would you say that you have "skinny"
muscles on your thighs or "meaty" ones?

Judge for yourself :-) <http://www.chapmancentral.com/Web/public.nsf/Documents/Bike_Optima_Stinger>

Bear in mind that I'm a shade over 6ft tall.

Guy
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David Pipes said:

There's a house just north of Venlo called 'Mountain View' - they must have damned powerful
binoculars!

Or they are British and doing irony :-)

Guy
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"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

Sounds a bit obvious, but what about trying the gears between the low ones and the not-so-low ones
(aka The Ones In The Middle).

More usefully, I try to spin between 84 and 92 on the flat. On hills, I find that if I can maintain
that cadence all well and good, but more often than not the gradient changes more quickly than I can
react and change to the required gear to stay in that band. So I find 75 a better cadence for hills
- below that things start getting laboured. Climbing out of the saddle seems to make deep breathing
a bit more tolerable - maybe something to do with straightening your torso/abdomen and letting your
diaphragm have a bt more space. Dunno.

Busted lungs (in my non-expert opinion) have to do with the power (watts) you produce. Painful
muscles have nothing to do with power but with force.... (I think) And, power is force times rpm.

So what I think you're doing when going to lower gears is use less force and more rpm. You're
probably overdoing it on the rpm, producing more watts in the low gear than in the high gear ->
busted lungs.

Try this: climb a hill in high gear (with no busted lungs) and look at your cycling computer for the
speed you're doing. Next day climb the same hill at a lower gear BUT AT THE SAME ROADSPEED. Using
the same speed should keep your power output the same -> no painful legs and no busted lungs.

Last year I was in the Vosges mountains (France). I cycled up some hills in the 22 front / 32 back
gear. At 8 kmh I was OK, at 9 kmh (which I could manage easily cause the force I had to use was not
that big) I fell of the bike panting after a few minutes.....

By the way, that is THE disadvantage of being Dutch, no hills (I like hills)

Me wants to go on vacation again (sigh)

Bas

"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

It seems to me that when doing a hill climb, I have two choices. I can choose to ride in low
gears, which makes it easy for me to turn the pedals. However, it also means a higher cadence, and
as a result I end up hyperventilating. Or I can choose to ride in not-so-low gears, which reduces
my cadence, and thus my breathing rate comes down. However, this leads to painful muscles (not to
mention knackered knees).

So does it have to be this way - do I have to choose between the one and the other?

In message <[email hidden]>, Sam Bixby <[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

in fairness i cycled round hollland a couple of years back (im in UK) and u have some BIG bridges,
try trainning up them!

There's a house just north of Venlo called 'Mountain View' - they must have damned powerful
binoculars!
--
DP

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Sky Fly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

....... However, it also means a higher cadence, and as a result I end up hyperventilating.

At 13 or 14 my nephew (not a candidate for Brain of Britain) had not got the hang of using his
gears. The slightest hill up would involve much grinding and graunching as his Halford's special
was changed to the granny and lowest gear. Then, for the downhills (again, however slight) it was
the big ring and high gear. He only needed two gears -- high & low!!

While I am not suggesting you are anything like as drastic in your gear selection, it does sound
as if you need to find a happy medium where you can pedal comfortably and within your best
cadence.

No, Tony, I don't do that - but it really does seem like there's no in between. As soon as I start
dropping gears to make turning the pedals easier, my breathing rate goes up - up - up.

Quoted message said:

As I understand it hyperventilating is when you are breathing too fast to be able to get enough
oxygen into your lungs -- in this case you are unlikely to be able to continue for very long
without blacking out!!

Mea culpa - that's what happens when you try to use long fancy words instead of sticking to the
basics. I meant "breathing deeper and faster".

--
Akin

aknak at aksoto dot idps dot co dot uk

Sam Bixby <[email hidden]> wrote in message "]news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

i always get both, indeed u should add feeling sick to the list...

1. aching - dead - legs

2. inability to breath properly

3. feeling sick as a sick dog having a sick day

panda

That makes me think of the MTB champion who threw up as he crossed the line during the mens TT in
the road world champs 2002. The commentator spectacularly missed it - even when it was repeated in
slow motion! But what I'm trying to get at is what must it be like when you are breathing at your
absolute maximum only to find your pipes are full of puke! He did look pretty uncomfortable.

Russell