Cycling image problem....oldtimers.

I also agree with "why would someone pay to advertise for Discovery Channel?" (no offense to you if you do)

I didn't want to respond to the political comment so that the thread would be hijacked, but Europeans need to realize Bush's poll ratings are 30% for a reason - the US doesn't agree with him. 🙂 [Lance Armstrong for president!]

meandmybike said:

Sounds like someone has some serious issues with growing old. Have you been watching Logan's Run or something? Carousel! Carousel! Carousel! :eek:

One has to be old to know the movie Logan's Run 😄
Unfortunately I saw the movie when it came to theaters.

Felt_Rider said:

One has to be old to know the movie Logan's Run 😄
Unfortunately I saw the movie when it came to theaters.

FYI - I'm 24 and i've never heard of it :o

wh0areume said:

FYI - I'm 24 and i've never heard of it :o

Maybe it'll be available on iPod TV in the future.

I also thought the same at first. *tips hat to Bullgod* Well ok, I dont have a hat on at the moment, but all the same. 😄

Part of it simply comes down to the attitude the cyclist takes out on the road with them. I dont bring any judgement with me when I go ride, much as I dont when I go walking around downtown.

As regards high end equipment, if someone can afford something they have dreamed about or desired for some time, then its up to them to fulfil that dream or not. Wish I had a high end bike in my teens or my twenties, but no sour grapes towards anyone who can. Do they need it? Only high end racers "need" it. My Honda gets me around just as well as a Porsche would, but I would prefer a Porsche.

As for team attire, I have no problems with someone being fond enough of a team to wear the attire, regardless of their ability, though I do think context is a worthwhile consideration. I personally wouldnt wear team attire in a club ride or any informal event, however I have also never frowned on or said anything to anyone who did. I sometimes wear team attire when I am out alone training, but never would wear the classification jerseys. Mind you, this is just me.

As an aside, I occasionally wear Euskaltel on my training rides. It does seem to make bees and loose dogs angry if no one else. 😄

And the whole gay marraige thing. Dont even get me started, but my hopes is that those overseas do not judge the book by the cover. Not everyone supports this administration and yes, we do have a lot of close-minded intolerant people in this country, but we also have many who are not.

The gay marriage comment was just a frivolous comment. I don't think we need discuss that here. I'm with John Stuart Mill on this one- "Not all conservatives are stupid, but most stupid people are conservative".

As for Lance as president? How would he cope with the constitutional clause that stops you winning more than 2 elections?

I think, if I am honest, what bugs me most about seeing older guys crawling along on thousands of Euros worth of carbon and titanium is the frustrating feeling that if I could afford that technology it might really make a difference, but for a fat bloke just out and about having a leisurely ride on a sunday afternoon it really doesn't matter. Maybe I should bikejack one of 'em?

As cyclists I think we all delude ourselves that people who see us whizz by are in awe and admiration of our toned legs and stuning speed. I suspect most people just think "poser" or "pratt", and if the cyclist in question is a pot bellied pensioner with his knees out at right angles and knee length socks it's hard to imagine any other response than laughter. Within the cyclist community we might be warmed and encouraged by such an oldtimer still ploughing along, but for self conscious teenagers who might unknowingly have the athletic potential to win major tours in the future the likely reaction is probably one of ridicule. Cycling is in danger of becoming a "dad" sport. Hence my original point that maybe these riders make the sport appear "uncool" to the young, and might do more damage than the benefits reaped by old men with disposable incomes and fetishes for carbon fibre.

Let the debate continue.

BullGod said:

I think, if I am honest, what bugs me most about seeing older guys crawling along on thousands of Euros worth of carbon and titanium is the frustrating feeling that if I could afford that technology it might really make a difference, but for a fat bloke just out and about having a leisurely ride on a sunday afternoon it really doesn't matter.

That cuts both ways. Some of us 'older' cyclists are envious of young whipper snappers who can devote several years to riding a bike pretty much full time.

At least you've got some chance of getting your hands on the latest carbon/Ti bling bike (without bike jacking!). The chances of me being able to turn the clock back 25 years are non-existent!
😄

Typo edited (old fingers).

Well from my perspective, i don't really view cycling as having that Old Man image. From what i know, the first thing that comes to people's minds about the sport is that its filled with poseurs in their fanciful get up with those oakleys, rudy projects etc...
Cycling sure isn't Lawn Bowls... btw i enjoy lawn bowls i'm young but old at heart.😕

But even if it does have the old man image... i'm not perturbed. Then again, cycling isn't really my "sport" Sport😕 ...more like a hobby hahah... something to do other than tennis and study ...

maybe you hard core cyclists are thinking too much?😄

To me this is what's cool about cycling. You can "do it" at what ever level, from 3-until....

I stated seriously road biking about 3 years ago when my knees just couldn't take running anymore. Up to that point I was mostly a mountain biker. Since then I've always said, I wish somebody had put me on a bike 20 years ago. I've got so much to learn, and I know my best years are behind me spent not on a bike. But that's cool, and I have no regrets that way. My bike keeps me in shape and pushes me to take my body and mind places where I've never taken it before and do things that at one time seemed impossible to me. So when I am riding with folks I don't know and they ask me "Do you race?" My answer is "Yeah, I race father time. So far I'm winning, but I'm afraid to slow down. I would hate for him to catch me....."

I look forward to being a "Fred" for a long time to come.

Lonnie Utah said:

To me this is what's cool about cycling. You can "do it" at what ever level, from 3-until....

I stated seriously road biking about 3 years ago when my knees just couldn't take running anymore. Up to that point I was mostly a mountain biker. Since then I've always said, I wish somebody had put me on a bike 20 years ago. I've got so much to learn, and I know my best years are behind me spent not on a bike. But that's cool, and I have no regrets that way. My bike keeps me in shape and pushes me to take my body and mind places where I've never taken it before and do things that at one time seemed impossible to me. So when I am riding with folks I don't know and they ask me "Do you race?" My answer is "Yeah, I race father time. So far I'm winning, but I'm afraid to slow down. I would hate for him to catch me....."

I look forward to being a "Fred" for a long time to come.

.....................very good post. A nice way to sum up what the sport is about.

FWIW... I am 30 years old and have a large collection of pro team kit gear... and I wear the full works too! Gloves, bibs, jerseys - but not team issue helmets, far too expensive! But I have no shame in admitting this and would strongly urge anybody reading this thread to not be put off from wearing their pro kits on account of the fact that it may not fit into somebody else's preconcieved notions of what one should or should not be doing.

Why do I wear the kit? Frankly, that's not the question. Why shouldn't I wear it? That is the question. Why the heck should I have to justify to anybody what I wear when I'm out on a ride? I get a lot of pleasure from putting on my pro team gear and I'm 30 - I don't care what others may think. I don't wear Grand Tour leaders jerseys but I have no issue at all with those that do.

I have a strong dislike of people hanging around the LBS telling me that I shouldn't be wearing a team kit, I shouldn't be riding a bike with a triple, I should be staying in the big ring on certain climbs, etc, etc.

Cycling in the opposite direction to a group of 8 riders from a local club last week, not one of them acknowledged me at the stop lights when I gave them a small wave - the only obvious reason being that I was in full protour team kit (FDJ if you really want to know). You will struggle to search for a better example of local bike club snobbery. It's these types of attitudes that have thus far kept me away from joining a local club.

Quoted post said:

Within the cyclist community we might be warmed and encouraged by such an oldtimer still ploughing along, but for self conscious teenagers who might unknowingly have the athletic potential to win major tours in the future the likely reaction is probably one of ridicule. Cycling is in danger of becoming a "dad" sport. Hence my original point that maybe these riders make the sport appear "uncool" to the young, and might do more damage than the benefits reaped by old men with disposable incomes and fetishes for carbon fibre.

BullGod, do you think that clearing the streets of "oldtimers still ploughing along" on "carbon fibre" bikes would be removing the most significant barrier that keeps more young people from taking up cycling, sticking with the sport and moving up through the categories? Maybe a cycling "chador" could be developed (a black robe worn by Muslim women that covers the body from head to toe). This chador could cover the rider and their bike so that these impressionable young people wouldn't have their cycling aspirations damaged by the sight of these "oldtimers" riding bikes that over stated their ability. 🙂

It seems like your ultimate concern is a good one "How do we get more young people experiencing the joys of our sport" but your diagnosis of the problem is, I think, partial or incomplete.

While young people notice the coolness factor of a powerful, graceful cyclist, they are also circumspect enough to know that in the real world there is a continuum of riders. They know that riders move up and down this continuum with changes in age and effort. IMO, the reason that young people aren't taking up cycling in as great a number as we would hope for isn't because they see it as a sport dominated by "uncool" riders. I think there are reasons that are more decisive and I would expect to see results sooner by thinking about these issues rather than being troubled by the lack of uniformity or homogeneity in the age, size, dress or ability of the cycling community that young people see out on the roads.

In this country the choices and access kids have to a wide variety of sports is amazing. RD was posting earlier this week about his training rides going off at 6:00 AM but even at that early hour in his part of the country he was still encountering 90 degree heat. Yet, even his city has an ice hockey program that drew in his son. I think this wide variety of choices is a good thing.

Second, I think parents are more cautious about risks and the idea of their children training out "in traffic" causes many families to steer their kids into what they perceive to be "safer" sports.

Third, most schools in this country have well known points of entry and clear paths of development for sports like basketball, soccer, cross-country, baseball and football. If your son or daughter got excited watching the Tour last summer, how would an attentive parent that wasn't already a part of the cycling world as easily get their son or daughter engaged with developmentally appropriate cycling experiences?

Finally, many teenagers are still developing the cognitive abilities that would enable them to be challenged and not frustrated by the demands of competitive cycling. Planning, setting goals and managing time to achieve goals are tasks that are particularly hard for young people. The team infrastructure that is more widely available in other sports meets the planning and organizational help young people need. I think young people feel like it is easier to make progress and be successful in these sports that have this team and coaching infrastructure more readily in place.

curlew said:

IMO, the reason that young people aren't taking up cycling in as great a number as we would hope for isn't because they see it as a sport dominated by "uncool" riders. I think there are reasons that are more decisive and I would expect to see results sooner by thinking about these issues rather than being troubled by the lack of uniformity or homogeneity in the age, size, dress or ability of the cycling community that young people see out on the roads.

As much as I disagree with the slight bashing of anyone, this thread made me think to myself about why I didn't want to get into biking as a teenager. The reason was because i DID think it was uncool, and it was because of my slightly out-of-shape neighbor across the street riding his road bike with tight short-shorts, tight jersey and his belly hanging out. Then add to that a dorky looking helmet? Yeah right - give me a baseball glove and i'll play baseball with my friends instead.

Back then (7 yrs ago) I had never even heard of the tour de france, and I watched plenty of TV. So all I had to associate with cycling was my out-of-shape neighbor in his tight shorts and goofy looking helment.

wh0areume said:

Back then (7 yrs ago) I had never even heard of the tour de france, and I watched plenty of TV. So all I had to associate with cycling was my out-of-shape neighbor in his tight shorts and goofy looking helment.

But don't you think that the "Lance effect" has changed that for lots of folks? Nobody put me on a bike 20 years ago (I'm 37) becuase I came from a small southern town where your options were baseball, football or basketball. The nearest bike shop was at least an hour away. Today, fully grown, I'm 5'7" and 140 lbs. Not really cut out for 2 of the 3. Baseball might have worked, but I never really got into it. I did wrestle in high school and that was good for me.

L

wh0areume said:

The reason was because i DID think it was uncool, and it was because of my slightly out-of-shape neighbor across the street riding his road bike with tight short-shorts, tight jersey and his belly hanging out. Then add to that a dorky looking helmet?

I am not sure the same neighboor would have inspired you more in a tinny speedo bathing suit, or in tight leggings doing some jogging with his heavy belly bouncing on his knees on each stride neither 😄

BullGod said:

Maybe I should bikejack one of 'em?

Nope. You should have to earn it -- like they did. 😎

And, since when has marriage been a pre-requisite for happiness? 😕

Gee.......you are a cat1. So, when you will turn pro? Have you been successful enough to earn a living racing bike yet?? What other full time job you have???? You need to go to the next level if you haven't reached your genetic potential yet. I guess us New Yorkers are lucky enough to have very lively racing sence here. How many local teams we have here??? 20 or more? In any given days, you will see guys training and riding around in their team kits.

Quoted post said:

As much as I disagree with the slight bashing of anyone, this thread made me think to myself about why I didn't want to get into biking as a teenager. The reason was because i DID think it was uncool, and it was because of my slightly out-of-shape neighbor across the street riding his road bike with tight short-shorts, tight jersey and his belly hanging out. Then add to that a dorky looking helmet? Yeah right - give me a baseball glove and i'll play baseball with my friends instead.

Back then (7 yrs ago) I had never even heard of the tour de france, and I watched plenty of TV. So all I had to associate with cycling was my out-of-shape neighbor in his tight shorts and goofy looking helment.

Thanks whOareume,

I think you and BullGod are correct. People DO form judgements about which people are cool and uncool. And they go on and form generalizations about entire sports or ethnic communities based on their experience and understanding and this influences their behavior. But people also learn to be interested in and notice things that aren't obvious or don't seem important at first and they frequently change their minds about what is cool and uncool. This seems to have happened in your case. Would you tell us how you view your neighbor or some similar rider, his shorts and helmet now? What made you change your mind and get involved in cycling?

When I was a teenager the local riding club would leave Lousiville Kentucky and ride to Cincinnatti and back for a double century. On at least two occasions I can remember doing the last 50 miles in the fading evening light and following the white, vein covered legs pumping up and down that belonged to 70 year old "Sprad." Sprad wouldn't turn anybody's head when he went by but I knew him "first hand" from these and other rides. From the many stories others told of his past riding feats I knew that I was riding behind a legend.

Based on these first hand experiences, I had a very different reponse to Sprad and cycling then you had from the more distant way that you knew your neighbor and through him, cycling. Even though Sprad was slightly overweight, wore one of those funny leather banded helmets and was far slower than most of the other riders (except me), I came to see him as "way cool" then and his stature has only increased in my mind over time. Even today when I need to pick up my effort on a 40K TT I often see Sprads legs pumping up and down in front of me, taking me home.

A lot of cycling is only going to be viewed as "cool" if you are an insider, a participant. If you are an outsider looking in, a lot of cycling is going to be incomprehensible and possibly dismissed as "uncool." BullGods ultimate concern, I think is how more young people might be encouraged to particpate in competitive cycling. But the diversity of riders, sizes, ages, riding styles and tastes in clothes seems to be viewed as an impediment to this worthwhile goal. Rather than thinking about the impossible and unethical task of adjusting the diversity in the world of cycling so that it is aligned with teenage understandings of what is cool and uncool, don't people who know and love this sport have the best chance of bringing young people into the sport by inviting them to experience cycling first hand? To get new people into the sport riding clubs don't put on a lecture and then try to persuade young people that shorts, helmets, and battles with hills, wind and rain are cool. Clubs post a schedule of rides and invite people to come out and see for themselves. The reality of cycling makes the most eloquent argument for the "coolness" of cycling.

I dont think it really matters what kit they wear. There are so many reasons why they they could want to do such a thing, from ideolizing a team they have seen on tv or just have [censored] loads of money and can afford the stuff. I ride with quite a few older riders that wear team kit even down to Bandanas, its not my scene but it does not bother me. And most of these riders are great characters that are good to have around on a four hour ride. They may not be that quick, and can easily be dropped but who really cares? I mean whats the point in watching Pro's and not being able to have your own little dream by owning your own set of team colours. The same could be said for all those that can afford Assos clothing, its nice stuff but i can't afford it but it does not make me at all envious. And most of these riders that wear it are older / non racers who want to feel good on a nice bike. My bike is a good as my pocket allows, i ride with non racers who train on carbon wheels on carbon frames with every gagdet available. They just want again to enjoy the better things in life, i wish i could. Team kit, [censored] hot bikes mean nothing, when it comes down to it there are pro's out there that could beat most people on a shopping bike. Now that would [censored] me off. lol cheers

Well, Well. You have spoken to me and about me!
I am 51 years young, and weight 203#s down from 270.

My jersey and shorts are functional, thats why I wear them. Neither would i wear a Lance Armstrong jersey. I'm not Lance, and never will be!

I bought a Cannondale R800 3 years ago. I got tired of tring to maintain a 30 year old bike, and ride it the same day.

Perhaps it would be more fitting if I wore jeans and a tee shirt and hobbled with a cane. (very big Grin).

But like Lance, when I die, I just as soon be on my bike when it happens!

AN NO, I'm not upset, I enjoyed your post. Just wanted to present a counter point!