Are pro cyclists masochists?

When the organizers signalled you to get off, did you straighten your leg and yell "[censored] [censored], I pulled a hammy"?

It's not so much that they love pain, but that they hate losing....
And the justifcation's always, "Well, I may be hurting, but the other guy's hurting worse".

What kind of race would allow a Cat5 in with Cat1s? Must not have been an official race. You would have had to show your license with any upgrade stickers. How did you "BS" yourself into the higher cat? No legit race official would let that fly. There is a reason for categories.....

capwater said:

What kind of race would allow a Cat5 in with Cat1s? Must not have been an official race. You would have had to show your license with any upgrade stickers. How did you "BS" yourself into the higher cat? No legit race official would let that fly. There is a reason for categories.....

Easy cap, [censored] happens. Some people have a knack for B'S that is uncanny.🙂

LS17 said:

I wanted to see what it was like to run with the "big dogs" and entered a cat 1 race. Of course I'm only a cat 5 and even at that level I'm not competitive. I bs'ed myself into cat 1 since the event looked poorly run.....

Sorry, but you're lucky you weren't crashed out or didn't cause someone to crash. Just wait till those cat 1s see you in a cat 5 race...

J

capwater said:

What kind of race would allow a Cat5 in with Cat1s? Must not have been an official race. You would have had to show your license with any upgrade stickers. How did you "BS" yourself into the higher cat? No legit race official would let that fly. There is a reason for categories.....

A race in his imagination only. This is pretty comical. It would be funnier though if he were a troll instead of someone with serious personal issues.

Can't you have your race license suspended for entering the wrong category race?

ToffoIsMe said:

Can't you have your race license suspended for entering the wrong category race?

You need a race license to begin with though.

wilmar13 said:

You need a race license to begin with though.

Just about every race I have done you have to present your USCF license to the race official at registration. While you may have registered online as a cat1, when they see cat5 on the license you're toast. Now if this was some sort of local deal where they only have one mixed category, I could see that. Even then they usually break them out only as 1,2,3. I would think that the cat 1s would raise a fit with the promoters if they found themselves dodging the rookies.

capwater said:

Just about every race I have done you have to present your USCF license to the race official at registration. While you may have registered online as a cat1, when they see cat5 on the license you're toast. Now if this was some sort of local deal where they only have one mixed category, I could see that. Even then they usually break them out only as 1,2,3. I would think that the cat 1s would raise a fit with the promoters if they found themselves dodging the rookies.

When I started racing, I entered a masters level race because the Cat 5 was closed. Dont ask me why or how. This was a big race in the Northeast US and had Pro-1-2, Cat 3 Cat 4 Cat 5 and Masters over 45. Well....

I knew nothing, complete newbie and dropped out/got dropped of the race early when I saw what the deal was. I had no interest much less capacity in trying to stay with guys, some of whom had won national road race championships back in the day in Euro countries--as was quickly pointed out to me when I asked some guys next to me WTF?!? since we immediately went to 27-28 mph and the climbs hadnt started yet.

Besides being impressed that we rolled out at 25 mph in the neutral zone and it it one of the hardest and hilliest races in the Northeast, I only later realized i had entered illegally and how uncool it is for a newbie to potentially screw up and cause a crash with ex-pros.

I let the race go up the road instead of messing with them even for a while, and finished the course and got passed by an accelerating junior field...lots of fun to have my son wave at me, like what happened?

Ouch

Well, he might be trolling...

But he could also be talking about a local club race. Here they just throw everyone into A, B, or C, and you get to choose which group to ride in. It's understood that 1/2 is A.

But, yeah, he's talking "cat"s so he's probably B.S.ing.

Getting back to the question : are pros masochists?

I don't know the answer to that.
I think that their pain threshold is far higher than mere mortals, for sure.

I have noticed that a lot of very good cyclists are prone to depression to a lesser and greater extent.

I was reading about that great Dutch cyclist Gert-Jan Theunisse : he was superb cyclist in the late 1980's, early 1990's.
He finished as a pro over a decade ago - but he still trains harder than ever.
In his interview he states that he needs to feel the pain, from working hard.
He's relocated to Majorca and he lives in a isolated house with his wife.
Everyday he trains and trains.
Is he addicted to the high of cycling? He admits that he suffers from depression.

Similarly one of the greatest climbers ever, Charly Gaul, lived a hermit after he retired.
Graeme Obree suffered manic depression.

It could be the case that these people pushed themselves beyond limit.

limerickman said:

Getting back to the question : are pros masochists?

I don't know the answer to that.
I think that their pain threshold is far higher than mere mortals, for sure.

I have to offer a counter-viewpoint here Lim. I know I push myself way harder than most people do, and in turn can ride better than others with more natural ability. But there are also plenty of cyclists that can drop me with less effort and training. At the professional level it is no different. It is like saying a Rhodes Scholar got where they are by studying harder than everyone else. Maybe person A has to study their ass off to get through a business program at the local university, and person B has to study their ass off to get an engineering degree at IIT or MIT, did person B study a lot harder, or did they have more talent to begin with? You will also find those that can go to MIT and study half as hard as those barely making average grades at local Uni. Cycling is the same, you have natural potential and it is up to you to make the most of it. I could not beat Jan Ulrich in a TT no matter how hard I pushed myself and how well I was trained, even if he ate donuts and didn't turn a pedal for 6 months prior to. Competitive people push themselves to the limit, whether that be local racing, or professional level.

limerickman said:

I have noticed that a lot of very good cyclists are prone to depression to a lesser and greater extent..

Cycling is a fantastic antidepressant. Rather than taking Prozac I ride my bike, and there are a lot of people like that, pros are no different. Stop riding and the benefits of hard exercise that keep depression away disappear... add that to lack of focused goals and a clear direction in the case of retired Pro cyclists, and it is a wonder we don't hear of more cases like Graeme Obree.

I agree with what you say about depression - a lot of people cycle to combat depression.
The point I was focussing on is the guys who suffer depression as a consequence of cycling.
It appears that Gert-Jan Theunisse, for example, is a guy who has suffered some bouts of depression since finishing as a pro.
Is it all linked ? I don't know to be honest.

I know that Obree is back cycling - our friend Mountain Pro has confirmed that GO turns up for the local clubrun. Great to see that, i think.

And I take your point about effort/reward.
It wouldn't matter if I trained and trained - I could never equal Laurence Roche who was my team mate and brother of 1987 TDF champion, Stephen.

LR was a natural - he worked hard and his effort appeared to improve his results.
Whereas no matter how hard I worked, I could never get to the next level.
Did LR train harder than me ? No.
But his training improved him whereas I hit a plateau and stayed there.
(Not that I mind - I enjoyed competing for competing sake - which was probably tells you more about why I never succeeded).

It's an interesting topic.

limerickman said:

I agree with what you say about depression - a lot of people cycle to combat depression.
The point I was focussing on is the guys who suffer depression as a consequence of cycling.
It appears that Gert-Jan Theunisse, for example, is a guy who has suffered some bouts of depression since finishing as a pro.
Is it all linked ? I don't know to be honest.

In GTR's case, I feel sure he suffered from depression all of his life and cycling is what helped him escape it. Look at how shy he was and hated the spotlight... he trains all the time now, partially to escape the inner darkness that afflicts him (he all but admitted that in a cyclesport interview a year or two ago IIRC). Marco Pantani maybe a better example of someone who suffered depression because of cycling, but then again, it was debilitating for him only after he left the cycling world because of a lot of things related to professional cycling...

limerickman said:

And I take your point about effort/reward.
It's an interesting topic.

One category I think no one will debate regarding masochist status is the RAAM solo guys. They are just insane, even the new Enduro category that forces 40 hrs of rest... THEY ARE MASOCHISTS FOR SURE!
http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/

[quote="limerickman"]Getting back to the question : are pros masochists?

I don't know the answer to that.
I think that their pain threshold is far higher than mere mortals, for sure.

I have noticed that a lot of very good cyclists are prone to depression to a lesser and greater extent.

QUOTE]
Interesting thread. Here's a question: do you think pro cyclists are necessarily at a greater pain level than we regular amateurs, or that they are just going a lot faster when they hit that level? A quick anecdote from my running days related to my question: When I was an expat living in the U.K. I competed in a 10-mile running race (I was a runner at that time, cycling took too much training time). The race was two 5-mile laps. Steve Jones, a world-class runner (I think at one point the world record holder in the marathon) lapped my wife's group on his way to a 48-minute finish (making my exactly 60-min time look lethargic). I asked my wife if he was foaming at the mouth as he flew by. "On the contrary" she said, "as he passed us he waved and asked "how's it going, ladies?" I realize some riders do have exceptional pain thresholds (Tyler Hamilton's TdF with a broken collar bone proves it) but I'm not sure if that isn't more the exception than the rule. Tom Boonen was just quoted to the effect that "racing is fun when you're winning all the time."
Switching to the depression question, I've read one opinion which says that the problem the pros have is that when you're used to a life which consists of training/racing, eating and sleeping, with all the logistics handled for you, the shock of post-retirement life is having to find something to fill the time. So it might not only be the lack of endorphins which causes depression, it could be suddenly having an "empty" life to deal with.

We all have lost a place in a TT by 1 second, or a sprint by a wheel and thought "man, if only I pushed a little bit harder" but I have never looked at a race result and thought "geesh, the winner of the Cat 1/2 40K TT beat my time by 5 mintutes... if only I had his pain threshold" 😄 ...

wilmar13 said:

One category I think no one will debate regarding masochist status is the RAAM solo guys. They are just insane, even the new Enduro category that forces 40 hrs of rest... THEY ARE MASOCHISTS FOR SURE!
http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/

Yeah, I am familiar with RAAM : very tough event, bordering on masochism.

BBC2 aired a great documentary about physical challenges a couple of years back.
The theme of the programme was to see if a moderately fir person can - under expert guidance - be trained to complete an endurance event.
One edition concerned the RAAM and the training of a 50yo guy for it.
He trained with the British RAF cycling team - he was under the direction of the British Olympic Medical people, top psychologists, nutritionist etc.

He trained for 16 solid - hours and hours to try to get a place as part of the 4 man RAF squad.
(RAF had won the team competition for the previous 2 years, I think).
Anyway, he got to the USA but wasn't strong enough to get on the team.
But they showed great footage of the RAAM and it is bloody hard going.
Cycling on open roads, boiling temps, traffic - and having to do this in relays.

[quote="palewin"]

limerickman said:

Getting back to the question : are pros masochists?

I don't know the answer to that.
I think that their pain threshold is far higher than mere mortals, for sure.

I have noticed that a lot of very good cyclists are prone to depression to a lesser and greater extent.

QUOTE]
Interesting thread. Here's a question: do you think pro cyclists are necessarily at a greater pain level than we regular amateurs, or that they are just going a lot faster when they hit that level? A quick anecdote from my running days related to my question: When I was an expat living in the U.K. I competed in a 10-mile running race (I was a runner at that time, cycling took too much training time). The race was two 5-mile laps. Steve Jones, a world-class runner (I think at one point the world record holder in the marathon) lapped my wife's group on his way to a 48-minute finish (making my exactly 60-min time look lethargic). I asked my wife if he was foaming at the mouth as he flew by. "On the contrary" she said, "as he passed us he waved and asked "how's it going, ladies?" I realize some riders do have exceptional pain thresholds (Tyler Hamilton's TdF with a broken collar bone proves it) but I'm not sure if that isn't more the exception than the rule. Tom Boonen was just quoted to the effect that "racing is fun when you're winning all the time."
Switching to the depression question, I've read one opinion which says that the problem the pros have is that when you're used to a life which consists of training/racing, eating and sleeping, with all the logistics handled for you, the shock of post-retirement life is having to find something to fill the time. So it might not only be the lack of endorphins which causes depression, it could be suddenly having an "empty" life to deal with.