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Vuelta simple calculation for stage 20

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26 September 2003
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Dan Connelly
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  1. quick and dirty calculation:

    cyclingnews.comvuelta.php

    stage 15 : Heras climbs with a VAM of 1813 m/h, Nozal 1721 This corresponds to Heras: 3.309
    minutes/100 meters Nozal: 3.486 minutes/100 meters gap : 0.177 minutes/100 meters

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Dan

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased influence
    of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component in a short time
    trial. So Nozal appears safe.

  2. "Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    quick and dirty calculation:


    cyclingnews.comvuelta.php

    Quoted message said:


    stage 15 : Heras climbs with a VAM of 1813 m/h, Nozal 1721 This corresponds to Heras: 3.309
    minutes/100 meters Nozal: 3.486 minutes/100 meters gap : 0.177 minutes/100 meters

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Dan

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased
    influence of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component in
    a short time trial. So Nozal appears safe.

    I can't dispute the math, but Nozal appeared to have been suffering a ton today. Heras can win if he
    buries himself tomorrow, and he knows he has the edge in form right now. (He also won't have a
    maniac screaming at him the whole way.) I predict Heras will take 2:00 plus on Nozal, manana.

    Steve Ashmore

  3. It looks like Heras dropped Nozal with 4.5km of climbing, and gained about 1'20" by the summit. About 17 seconds per kilometer.

    If it translates into tomorrows climb, Heras wins by more than 3 minutes.

    It's flatter though, so maybe Nozal will have an advantage.

    But, mountain time trials aren't forgiving to those that go hard at the begining. The first time check, the steep section in the early kms, the lack of a faithful teammate to pace, and the "VENGAVENGAVENGA" blasting in his ear are some of the things that will trouble Nozal.

  4. "Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    quick and dirty calculation:


    cyclingnews.comvuelta.php

    Quoted message said:


    stage 15 : Heras climbs with a VAM of 1813 m/h, Nozal 1721 This corresponds to Heras: 3.309
    minutes/100 meters Nozal: 3.486 minutes/100 meters gap : 0.177 minutes/100 meters

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Dan

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased
    influence of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component in
    a short time trial. So Nozal appears safe.

    It also neglects the fact that Nozal spent all of today sitting on wheels; Heras spent a fair bit of
    time pushing the pace up front. Plus Nozal clearly had to bury himself today just to keep the time
    loss down, whereas we can assume Heras was thinking about tomorrow when pacing himself.

    Anyone want to bet on the race being up for grabs in the run into Madrid?

    Peter

  5. "jim gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It looks like Heras dropped Nozal with 4.5km of climbing, and gained about 1'20" by the summit.
    About 17 seconds per kilometer.

    If it translates into tomorrows climb, Heras wins by more than 3 minutes.

    It's flatter though, so maybe Nozal will have an advantage.

    But, mountain time trials aren't forgiving to those that go hard at the begining. The first time
    check, the steep section in the early kms, the lack of a faithful teammate to pace, and the
    "VENGAVENGAVENGA" blasting in his ear are some of the things that will trouble Nozal.

    Something along those lines is really the only shot Heras has at winning. It could happen too. Saiz
    is notorious for making his own riders crack. I mean, I doubt it but it still has a small chance of
    happening.

    Quoted message said:

    --

    Quoted message said:

    --------------------------<


    Posted via cyclingforums.com cyclingforums.comcyclingforums.com

  6. "jim gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It looks like Heras dropped Nozal with 4.5km of climbing, and gained about 1'20" by the summit.
    About 17 seconds per kilometer.

    If it translates into tomorrows climb, Heras wins by more than 3 minutes.

    It's flatter though, so maybe Nozal will have an advantage.

    But, mountain time trials aren't forgiving to those that go hard at the begining. The first time
    check, the steep section in the early kms, the lack of a faithful teammate to pace, and the
    "VENGAVENGAVENGA" blasting in his ear are some of the things that will trouble Nozal.

    It will be interesting. But direct comparisons are not easy. Consider,

    1. Today's climb came at the end of a road stage. Not so tomorrow.
    2. The average grade for the last 4.5 km of the climb today was perhaps
    3.5%. Tomorrow the overall average will be 5.6% which works in Nozal's favor except for the steep
    part going up to 17% at the beginning of the time trial. After that, on paper, the climb is ok
    for Nozal.
    4. The leader's jersey is a plus but then Roberto can't enjoy the prospect of another 2nd place. At
    least it's not fourth.
    5. Saiz--could be a plus or a minus. He is well regarded by his riders and perhaps the Latin
    temperament mixes well with Nozal. Nozal can always drop his earpiece a al Ullrich.

    IMO, the bottom line is that they will both ride with HRMs and will both go as fast as possible
    within their limits. I look for Heras to take a chunk of time by the first 3km with Nozal holding
    even or gaining a bit back by the end. My prediction is for Nozal to have a 12 to 20 second lead
    going into the final day.

  7. Quoted post said:

    Originally posted by B. Lafferty
    Nozal can always drop his earpiece a al Ullrich.

    Not if Saiz is using his megaphone!

    I predict Heras over Nozal by 2:30 on the stage.

  8. Nozal by 57 seconds going into Madrid.

  9. Steve Ashmore said:

    "Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    quick and dirty calculation:


    cyclingnews.comvuelta.php

    Quoted message said:


    stage 15 : Heras climbs with a VAM of 1813 m/h, Nozal 1721 This corresponds to Heras: 3.309
    minutes/100 meters Nozal: 3.486 minutes/100 meters gap : 0.177 minutes/100 meters

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Dan

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased
    influence of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component in
    a short time trial. So Nozal appears safe.

    I can't dispute the math, but Nozal appeared to have been suffering a ton today. Heras can win if
    he buries himself tomorrow, and he knows he has the edge in form right now. (He also won't have a
    maniac screaming at him the whole way.)

    Neither will Nozal - Saiz is outa there..

    "Manolo Sáiz expelled from the race

    ONCE-Eroski's team director Manolo Sáiz was expelled from the Vuelta after having a serious
    argument with the motorcycle rider of a TV cameraman in the middle of the Navacerrada climb. Sáiz
    became angry when he saw that the race leader Nozal was having a very bad time on the climb. The
    ONCE director stopped the car and started insulting and screaming at the motorcycle rider.
    Apparently, the rider was obstructing Sáiz's way when the director wanted to tell some of his men
    to help Isidro Nozal.

    However the president of the race jury, Belgian Jean Michel Voets, ruled that Sáiz had not respected
    the commissaire's instructions during the stage. "We decided to expel Mr. Sáiz from the race until
    the competition is over," said Mr Voets in a short press conference. "Sáiz has badly offended the
    image of cycling and also the image of the Vuelta España."

    Regards! Stephen

  10. "jim gravity" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It looks like Heras dropped Nozal with 4.5km of climbing, and gained about 1'20" by the summit.
    About 17 seconds per kilometer.

    If it translates into tomorrows climb, Heras wins by more than 3 minutes.

    Dumbass -

    That doesn't translate.

    Heras waits until there is 5k left to attack because he knows that's how long he can maintain his
    above-threshold effort.

    We used to see this all the time with Pantani/Indurain, except La Elefantina tended to go way too
    early. He'd attack, put the gap on, but once he had to settle back, Indurain would tempo him back.
    Nozal usually has Igor to help him with that - Heras is smart to wait.

  11. "B. Lafferty" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:<[email hidden]>...>

    Quoted message said:

    4. Saiz--could be a plus or a minus. He is well regarded by his riders and perhaps the Latin
    temperament mixes well with Nozal. Nozal can always drop his earpiece a al Ullrich.

    IMO, the bottom line is that they will both ride with HRMs and will both go as fast as possible
    within their limits. I look for Heras to take a chunk of time by the first 3km with Nozal holding
    even or gaining a bit back by the end. My prediction is for Nozal to have a 12 to 20 second lead
    going into the final day.

    Dropping the earpiece wouldn't help as Saiz screems his vengas over the car megaphone. But it's a
    moot point as he got expelled from the race after today's stage.

    Eli Gordon

  12. It is an interesting reverse scenario (for USPS) to the Tour on the last meaningful stage.

  13. "VENGAVENGAVENGA" blasting

    Quoted message said:

    in his ear are some of the things that will trouble Nozal.

    won't be a factor, see previous topics about saiz, he's gone. and Nzoal will have no team mates to
    hold his hand.

  14. "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It is an interesting reverse scenario (for USPS) to the Tour on the last


    meaningful stage.

    Quoted message said:

    I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying they will miss Saiz in the ITT? In a lot of cases (other
    teams) or if it was earlier, I might agree but I doubt this will factor in to the race. If they do
    lose though, it will make him look like the worst director since...

    In fact, can anyone think of a bigger hose job from a DS than this? (If we stipulate that this costs
    them the Tour or not, just specify).

  15. "Nick Burns" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    It is an interesting reverse scenario (for USPS) to the Tour on the last


    meaningful stage.

    Quoted message said:

    I am not sure what you mean. Are you saying they will miss Saiz in the ITT? In a lot of cases
    (other teams) or if it was earlier, I might agree but I doubt this will factor in to the race. If
    they do lose though, it will make him look like the worst director since...

    In fact, can anyone think of a bigger hose job from a DS than this? (If we stipulate that this
    costs them the Tour or not, just specify).

    No, actually I was referring to Heras being in a do-or-die situation, just as Ullrich was in France
    on the penultimate stage.

  16. "Steve Ashmore" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    I can't dispute the math, but Nozal appeared to have been suffering a ton today. Heras can win if
    he buries himself tomorrow, and he knows he has the edge in form right now. (He also won't have a
    maniac screaming at him the whole way.) I predict Heras will take 2:00 plus on Nozal, manana.

    Nozal hasn't had Saiz screaming at him since the TTT on day one. He has been following Igor,
    not Isidro.

    -Sonarrat.

  17. "Carl Sundquist" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    No, actually I was referring to Heras being in a do-or-die situation, just


    as Ullrich was

    Quoted message said:

    in France on the penultimate stage.

    It won't matter. Heras' TT misery is not going to be offset by the soft gradients Saturday. I fully
    expect Nozal to put time into him, gradient notwithstanding.

    Alexander

    ---
    Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (grisoft.comgrisoft.com).
    Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 - Release Date: 9/18/2003

  18. "Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    "]news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:

    quick and dirty calculation:


    cyclingnews.comvuelta.php 32

    Quoted message said:


    stage 15 : Heras climbs with a VAM of 1813 m/h, Nozal 1721 This corresponds to Heras: 3.309
    minutes/100 meters Nozal: 3.486 minutes/100 meters gap : 0.177 minutes/100 meters

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Dan

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased
    influence of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component in
    a short time trial. So Nozal appears safe.

    I would disagree with this for the simple reason that Nozal looks cooked and Heras doesn't.

    I'm going to reach and pick Heras.

    Another time when the pressure of being the leader has gradually eaten away at a rider: Casagrande,
    in the Giro, losing it bigtime in the uphill TT. To me, this has a similar feel.

  19. Dan Connelly said:

    quick and dirty calculation:

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Here's the profile: cyclingnews.comvuelta03

    Climbing bike or TT bike?

  20. Steve Ashmore said:

    "Dan Connelly" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    tomorrow: altitutude gain ~ 600 meters => 1:04 GC gap : 1:57

    expected GC gap after stage : Nozal ahead by 0:53

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    P.S. this neglects factors which are probably in Nozal's favor. Shallow grade + increased
    influence of wind resistance when riders are riding alone + increased anaerobic component
    in a short time trial. So Nozal appears safe.

    Quoted message said:

    I can't dispute the math, but Nozal appeared to have been suffering a ton today. Heras can win if
    he buries himself tomorrow, and he knows he has the edge in form right now. (He also won't have a
    maniac screaming at him the whole way.) I predict Heras will take 2:00 plus on Nozal, manana.

    Nozal won't have a maniac screaming at him the whole way either, since Saiz got DQed and won't take
    the start tomorrow. Unless Saiz has a deputy maniac in the other team car. Or they hook up a cell
    phone to the ONCE megaphone.

    Tomorrow's climb and today's are both about 600 meters over 11 km, and Heras put about 1:30 into
    Nozal. The grades aren't quite the same as tomorrow's has steep bits and a flat spot in the middle.
    Nozal looks to be fatiguing, but tomorrow he only has to ride 11 km. OTOH, Heras can ride flat out
    from the start without getting chased down by Kelmes. It all comes down to form and guts; I'll guess
    Nozal keeps the jersey by 10 seconds.

    BTW, every now and then some dumbass says that Heras is an underachiever or doesn't live up to his
    promise. Consider that if Nozal hadn't gotten into a breakaway and then ridden his heart out, we'd
    probably be talking about Heras wiping the floor with prerace favorite Igor G de G.

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