cycling for the balance challenged

In message <[email hidden]>, AJH
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi

My first visit here for a few years.

I'm looking for alternative pedal cycle for someone who has a balance
problem and is no longer confident to cycle an ordinary two wheeler.

I know about recumbent and tricycle designs but want something more
similar to a standard cycle, I would not consider stabilisers, street
cred is an issue.

Any pointers?

AJH

When my dear old Dad lost his balance he got a Pashley tricycle. These
are pretty conventional in design.

Have a look at http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/tri-1.html.

Don't expect to ride like a 2 wheeler though. Tricycle steering takes
some getting used to.

Hope that this might help.
--
Bob Downie
Downie GeoScience Ltd.
please remove #n0spam# to reply directly

In article <[email hidden]>

AJH said:

Hi

My first visit here for a few years.

I'm looking for alternative pedal cycle for someone who has a balance
problem and is no longer confident to cycle an ordinary two wheeler.

I know about recumbent and tricycle designs but want something more
similar to a standard cycle, I would not consider stabilisers, street
cred is an issue.

Any pointers?

Two wheelers depend on leaning for stability in corners, anything that
doesn't lean will work better if it's low, so for three-or-more wheelers
recumbents really are the answer. If you must go upright how about
something like this
http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/classic-no-33.html
or this
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260001071733
as an alternative to the conventional trike?

"AJH" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Hi

My first visit here for a few years.

I'm looking for alternative pedal cycle for someone who has a balance
problem and is no longer confident to cycle an ordinary two wheeler.

I know about recumbent and tricycle designs but want something more
similar to a standard cycle, I would not consider stabilisers, street
cred is an issue.

Any pointers?

AJH

Pshaw! 'bents are the ultimate in cred...

Cheers, helen s ;-)

Bob Downie said:

In message <[email hidden]>, AJH
<[email hidden]> writes

Quoted message said:

Hi

My first visit here for a few years.

I'm looking for alternative pedal cycle for someone who has a balance
problem and is no longer confident to cycle an ordinary two wheeler.

I know about recumbent and tricycle designs but want something more
similar to a standard cycle, I would not consider stabilisers, street
cred is an issue.

Any pointers?

AJH

When my dear old Dad lost his balance he got a Pashley tricycle. These
are pretty conventional in design.

Have a look at http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/tri-1.html.

Don't expect to ride like a 2 wheeler though. Tricycle steering takes
some getting used to.

Hope that this might help.

My SO, who also has balance problems severe enough to prevent her from
riding on 2 wheels, accompanied me round Holland on her Tri-1 last year.
Apart from one or two very narrow tracks with unusually rough surfaces (and
climbing the steepest of the hills round Arnhem!) it served her very well
indeed. She was much faster than me on the one day we had a gale blowing
into our teeth, despite the trike being more heavily laden and having fewer
gears.

When we are out together, I've noticed that many people are interested in
the trike, and say things like "That's just what I need" or "I want one of
those".

--
Regards
Alex
The From address above is a spam-trap.
The Reply-To address is valid

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:24:20 +0100, "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Pshaw! 'bents are the ultimate in cred...

I agree but I was referring to kiddies stabilisers.

The traditional cycle has the advantage of height for views above the
traffic and the small width for threading amongst it.

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

AJH

<[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:24:20 +0100, "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Pshaw! 'bents are the ultimate in cred...

I agree but I was referring to kiddies stabilisers.

The traditional cycle has the advantage of height for views above the
traffic and the small width for threading amongst it.

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

AJH

If you want ultimate cool for a kid... KMX

http://www.kmxkarts.co.uk/

If I was a kid - I'd want one. Have seen them in action. *Serious fun*
Someone I know who has offspring with balance problem got the offspring a
KMX - it is much loved and brings oodles of smiles to said offspring's face.

http://www.kmxkarts.co.uk/k-class.html

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

I'll just add that I expected something along the lines of a tilting
trike for the disabled. I see there are a number of patents but
nothing produced?

The concept was used in an Ariel moped from ~1970.

AJH

sylva said:

I'll just add that I expected something along the lines of a tilting trike
for the disabled. I see there are a number of patents but nothing
produced?

There is a fairly busy Yahoo! discussion list on tilting multi-track
vehicles, both HPV and motorised. You could browse the archives, or
perhaps Mr Braggins of this Parish could be persuaded to give a summary of
the state of the art?

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/tilting/

Mike

in message <[email hidden]>, AJH

(') said:

My first visit here for a few years.

I'm looking for alternative pedal cycle for someone who has a balance
problem and is no longer confident to cycle an ordinary two wheeler.

I know about recumbent and tricycle designs but want something more
similar to a standard cycle, I would not consider stabilisers, street
cred is an issue.

Ordinary upright tricycle. You need to learn to ride them, because they
don't corner like bikes and consequently if you corner too vigorously
without leaning your body into the corner they will tip up - but they
look like standard bikes, more or less.

People used to race them seriously in this country up until about twenty
years ago - possibly a few still do. But really nice twenty year old
ones come up occasionally on eBay. For example, at present:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Superb-Condition-George-Longstaff-Trike-Tricycle_W0QQitemZ180001615062QQihZ008QQcategoryZ97029QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(very, very nice - the Longstaffs are about the nicest)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOB-JACKSON-TRIKE-ADULTS-HAND-MADE-HIGH-SPEC-ROAD-USE_W0QQitemZ150001989119QQihZ005QQcategoryZ97029QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(very nice, and with a step-through frame which will help if it's for
someone older)
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/GENTS-ATB-TRIBIKE-TO-FIT-INSIDE-LEG-27-BLUE-SOLAR_W0QQitemZ270002852133QQihZ017QQcategoryZ97029QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(modern mountain-bike-like thing, looks quite competent but probably
heavy)

A 'tadpole' recumbent will be a lot more stable, but I agree it looks
more eccentric.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03

in message <[email hidden]>,

(') said:

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:24:20 +0100, "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Pshaw! 'bents are the ultimate in cred...

I agree but I was referring to kiddies stabilisers.

The traditional cycle has the advantage of height for views above the
traffic and the small width for threading amongst it.

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

Believe me, that would not be more stable - quite the opposite.
Conventional trikes with 'normal' track have stability problems and are
quite easy to turn over if you aren't used to riding them. With a narrow
track they'd be actively dangerous.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Do not sail on uphill water.
- Bill Lee

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Ordinary upright tricycle. You need to learn to ride them, because they
don't corner like bikes and consequently if you corner too vigorously
without leaning your body into the corner they will tip up - but they
look like standard bikes, more or less.

People used to race them seriously in this country up until about twenty
years ago - possibly a few still do. But really nice twenty year old
ones come up occasionally on eBay. For example, at present:

Quite frequently trikes take part in time trials... there's even a tricycle
association.

http://www.tricycleassociation.org.uk/

The number of trikes taking part in time trials is small, but they are
frequently seen, if you see what I mean!

Cheers, helen s

Quoted message said:

On Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:24:20 +0100, "wafflycat"

w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com said:

Pshaw! 'bents are the ultimate in cred...

I agree but I was referring to kiddies stabilisers.

The traditional cycle has the advantage of height for views above the
traffic and the small width for threading amongst it.

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

Definitely not. The wider the trike the more stable it is.
But upright trikes are amongst the most unstable machines on the road
and require an considerable amount of agility (and nerve) to keep both
wheels on the ground. Everytime they meet a bend or a slope they try and
tip over.

I ride both upright trikes and a recumbent trike. In handling there is
just no comparison. Take an upright down a winding hill at 25mph and
your knuckles will be white at the bottom - if you survive. Take a 'bent
down at 50mph and you will never have a wider grin.
I have just recommended a recumbent trike to a chap who only has one
arm, after a horrendous motorbike accident - they are *stable*

And recumbent trikes ooze street cred, while today it is the uprights
that get the guffaws.

John B

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

Believe me, that would not be more stable - quite the opposite.
Conventional trikes with 'normal' track have stability problems and are
quite easy to turn over if you aren't used to riding them.

I remember this 50 years on! Lift the wheel on one side and you lost
drive ;-)

Quoted message said:

With a narrow
track they'd be actively dangerous.

I know which is why I was thinking of one with a tilt built in. I had
hoped there would be a device that was not wider overall than the
pedal width of a two wheeler. As I say it was done for a rather
unsuccessful moped.

AJH

In article <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

I'll just add that I expected something along the lines of a tilting
trike for the disabled. I see there are a number of patents but
nothing produced?

The concept was used in an Ariel moped from ~1970.

I remember that - IIRC it had torsion springs in the pivot arrangement
that tended to take a set so it ended up permanently wonky.

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

Quoted message said:

I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to aid
stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a narrow
track they'd be actively dangerous.

I know which is why I was thinking of one with a tilt built in. I had
hoped there would be a device that was not wider overall than the
pedal width of a two wheeler.

There are a few tilting trikes.
http://www.stitesdesign.com/wrap_hpv.html is probably the closest to
what you describe.

http://www.maxmatic.com/ttw_hpv.htm has links to some others.

Quoted message said:

As I say it was done for a rather unsuccessful moped.

And the fairly successful within a small niche Honda Gyro.

in message <[email hidden]>, Alan Braggins

(') said:

Quoted message said:

Simon Brooke said:

> I was hoping for a trike with a very narrow track, just enough to
> aid stability but I realise this requires an articulation.

[...]

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

With a narrow
track they'd be actively dangerous.

I know which is why I was thinking of one with a tilt built in. I had
hoped there would be a device that was not wider overall than the
pedal width of a two wheeler.

There are a few tilting trikes.
http://www.stitesdesign.com/wrap_hpv.html is probably the closest to
what you describe.

H'mmm! What's the efficiency loss of a universal joint?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Skill without imagination is craftsmanship and gives us
;; many useful objects such as wickerwork picnic baskets.
;; Imagination without skill gives us modern art.
;; Tom Stoppard, Artist Descending A Staircase

Simon Brooke said:

Alan Braggins
([email hidden]'😉 wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are a few tilting trikes.
http://www.stitesdesign.com/wrap_hpv.html is probably the closest to
what you describe.

Yes that seems to fill most of my requirements except it is recumbent
and the overall width is 21'5" compared with my bike's 15".

Quoted message said:

H'mmm! What's the efficiency loss of a universal joint?

Interesting question for which I would like to know the answer. My
guess would be negligible when not articulated.

In this case there are also two separate chain drives to the front
wheel either side of the joint.

Showstopper is the price being an order of magnitude too high.

AJH

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

There are a few tilting trikes.
http://www.stitesdesign.com/wrap_hpv.html is probably the closest to
what you describe.

Yes that seems to fill most of my requirements except it is recumbent

But with your head position a lot higher than most recumbent trikes,
giving better visibility over traffic.

Quoted message said:

and the overall width is 21'5" compared with my bike's 15".

Put some wide panniers on your bike to even things up :-)

Quoted message said:

Showstopper is the price being an order of magnitude too high.

You want something more complicated than an ordinary bike, made for a
niche market. You aren't going to find it cheap.

This: http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2005/050428.Shim.bike.html
might be another possibility, but it's only a concept design, and I have
doubts about how well it would really work (and it's aimed at children,
but the same concept could be used for a larger trike/bike).
(It's a narrow track trike at low speed, that tucks the wheels together so
it can lean like a bike at higher speed.)

On 01 Jul 2006 15:06:45 +0100 (BST), [email hidden] (Alan

Braggins) said:

Quoted message said:

Showstopper is the price being an order of magnitude too high.

You want something more complicated than an ordinary bike, made for a
niche market. You aren't going to find it cheap.

I was expecting a doubling of the price of a decent tourer.

Quoted message said:

This: http://www.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/2005/050428.Shim.bike.html
might be another possibility, but it's only a concept design, and I have
doubts about how well it would really work (and it's aimed at children,
but the same concept could be used for a larger trike/bike).
(It's a narrow track trike at low speed, that tucks the wheels together so
it can lean like a bike at higher speed.)

Neat idea, the sort of thing I wouldn't have come up with, what effect
would the change in camber angle have? It will be interesting to see
if one gets built. The fact is a child's learning period is short in
comparison with the long term problem of a *slight* disability
interfering with a cycling experience.

Andrew Heggie