Norwich Road (Ipswich) traffic signals

Following on from Mr R@t (2.30zi)'s message. . .

Quoted message said:

I commute from town to the Claydon area every weekday; this is fine apart
from one minor problem on the journey back (from Claydon to Ipswich suburbs)

There is a bike lane on the Norwich road in both directions. The Northbound
direction is a bit thin (but useable); on the Southbound direction you can
use the bus lane (as is common in many other towns and cities).

One problem is that travelling Southbound, there are traffic lights
presumably for the bus and cycle lane - but the detectors do not trigger so
I end up either having to wait for a bus to trigger them or having to wait
for the traffic in the other lane to not pose a hazard and then run the red
light (which I do not like doing).

Anyone else noticed this? Am I just being impatient? (I usually give it
about 30 seconds or so)

You are absolutely right. You could die of old age if you used the bus
lane. I found that out a long time ago. From memory there are about
three sets, of which the first two (from Claydon) are fairly easy to
negotiate by forcing your way into the 'car' lane. (Assertive cycling
called for - no problem if you know how) but the one as you approach the
double roundabout on what used to be the bypass is a swine to plan for
sensibly.

Quoted message said:

When I lived in Reading lots of traffic signals did seem to recognise bikes
and react accordingly.

Is it worth notifying SCC Highways dept about this problem? It seems minor
but I don't want to put myself in danger or keep breaking the law
(particularly in a town which prides itself on a "Summer of Zero
Tolerance"!)

SCC vary. In times past (when Liz Homer, now in charge of some farce at
the Home office - need I say more?) was chief executive highways could
do no wrong. Another time I have had instant success with reporting SCC
to ?Go Eastern? (Some overseeing government office) which got stupid
lines changed (on the way in from Claydon - can't recall the first
settlement you get to - with the cobbles) - Others in this NG have had
varying success : Perhaps the simplest way to explain it is that: As per
most CCs, Suffolk have low-calibre staff who do the best they can, and
sometimes recognise they've missed the target, own up and get on with
it.

PS While you're at it ask them why Ipswich town centre has no cycle
parking in the central area. - PATHETIC.
--
PETER FOX Not the same since the statuette business went bust
[email hidden]
www.eminent.demon.co.uk - Lots for cyclists

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

I commute from town to the Claydon area every weekday; this is fine apart
from one minor problem on the journey back (from Claydon to Ipswich suburbs)

There is a bike lane on the Norwich road in both directions. The Northbound
direction is a bit thin (but useable); on the Southbound direction you can
use the bus lane (as is common in many other towns and cities).

One problem is that travelling Southbound, there are traffic lights
presumably for the bus and cycle lane - but the detectors do not trigger so
I end up either having to wait for a bus to trigger them or having to wait
for the traffic in the other lane to not pose a hazard and then run the red
light (which I do not like doing).

Anyone else noticed this? Am I just being impatient? (I usually give it
about 30 seconds or so)

When I lived in Reading lots of traffic signals did seem to recognise bikes
and react accordingly.

Is it worth notifying SCC Highways dept about this problem? It seems minor
but I don't want to put myself in danger or keep breaking the law
(particularly in a town which prides itself on a "Summer of Zero
Tolerance"!)

Alex

I had this problem at a set of traffic lights in Wakefield.Reported it
to the Highways Dept. who said there was nothing wrong with the sensors
and you had to ensure that you cycled over the logo on the road as that
was where the sensors were buried.

However I noticed a couple of days later that there were some workmen at
the junction and there has never been a problem since.

So yes,it is worth reporting .

Sam Salt

Sam Salt said:

So yes,it is worth reporting .

The lights near where I lived usually picked up bikes no problem,
probably because they were relatively new but surprising as there were
toucan crossings over every lane and they expected cyclists to use that
route!

One night the traffic lights for the 'turning right' filter lane went
haywire - all traffic was stopped, the toucan lights went to red but
mine never changed to green! The toucan lights then went back to green
and the other traffic was allowed to go. It did this a few times in
quick succession before I gave up and 'jumped the red' and used the
crossing instead.

The lights continued doing this all night although they were OK by the
morning (maybe it was because it was so cold that night). I rpoerted
it to the council (Leicestershire) and never recieved a reply but a
couple of days later there were some workmen fiddling in the cabinets
so I think they were investigating. Leics CC also set up a system for
reporting fly tipping which I used not long ago. I receieved a phone
call about some hotspots I reported the day after and then an email a
week later saying they'd removed a couple of tons of rubbish.

peter

peter

"Peter Fox" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

SCC vary. In times past (when Liz Homer, now in charge of some farce at

the Home office - need I say more?) was chief executive highways could do
no wrong. Another time I have had instant success with reporting SCC to
?Go Eastern? (Some overseeing government office) which got stupid lines
changed (on the way in from Claydon - can't recall the first settlement
you get to - with the cobbles)

If you mean the first urban bit of Ipswich coming in Southbound from Claydon
think this is the Whitton estate (a place with a less than savoury
reputation). I used to live there as a temporary measure when I first moved
here; every day I had to haul my bike and panniers up a flight of steps and
keep it *inside* the flat for security.

I did notice the remnants of some lines and wondered what had happened
there.

I believe its Government Office for the East (GO-EAST) who oversee these
things. Based in Cambridge IIRC.

Quoted message said:

most CCs, Suffolk have low-calibre staff who do the best they can, and
sometimes recognise they've missed the target, own up and get on with it.

I have been told they have outsourced everything and you are often actually
speaking to BT call centre operators in the first instance.

With all these people I tend to demand the call log number (it is not always
instantly offered) and make a futher call at a later date to check progress.

Quoted message said:

PS While you're at it ask them why Ipswich town centre has no cycle
parking in the central area. - PATHETIC.

Which bit is the "central" area? I noticed some stands by the Granny statue
and some others near a new Action Bikes store. There are some but they seem
like there may not be enough at peak times.

Alex
--
Mr R@T / General Lighting
Ipswich, Suffolk, Untied Kingdom
http://www.partyvibe.com

In article <[email hidden]>

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

I commute from town to the Claydon area every weekday; this is fine apart
from one minor problem on the journey back (from Claydon to Ipswich suburbs)

There is a bike lane on the Norwich road in both directions. The Northbound
direction is a bit thin (but useable); on the Southbound direction you can
use the bus lane (as is common in many other towns and cities).

One problem is that travelling Southbound, there are traffic lights
presumably for the bus and cycle lane - but the detectors do not trigger so
I end up either having to wait for a bus to trigger them or having to wait
for the traffic in the other lane to not pose a hazard and then run the red
light (which I do not like doing).

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

thanks for this... but

I *already* try and ride in the middle of what I *think* is the detector
loop (there is some diamond-shaped pattern of bitumen on the road, as if its
been cut open to put the loop in and the bitumen then poured over the loop
to seal the road surface)

but nothing seems to happen. It seems like the loop has been set for buses
as these make the signal work as it should.

Alex

--
Mr R@T / General Lighting
Ipswich, Suffolk, Untied Kingdom
http://www.partyvibe.com

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

Which bit is the "central" area? I noticed some stands by the Granny statue
and some others near a new Action Bikes store. There are some but they seem
like there may not be enough at peak times.

Bury St Edmunds is worse for parking, although I agree there's not
enough in Ipswich

Also their bike lanes are very useless as well, some bad one's I've
noticed are:

Western Way, lots here which seem to end suddenly in silly places, and
even worse the Newmarket Road/Out Risby Gate past the college - here the
bike lanes move on and off the path in places. Is very dangerous in
places with the kerbs etc.

They seem to have done better in Colchester, which keeps me happy as
that's where I am most often with the bike - just wish they'd sort the
problem on the train, either there's people stacking luggage or babies
in the bike racks, can be particularly bad at the weekend when we get
those awful 153s with the narrowest doorway at the bike rack end!

In article <[email hidden]>

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

thanks for this... but

I *already* try and ride in the middle of what I *think* is the detector
loop (there is some diamond-shaped pattern of bitumen on the road, as if its
been cut open to put the loop in and the bitumen then poured over the loop
to seal the road surface)

but nothing seems to happen. It seems like the loop has been set for buses
as these make the signal work as it should.

Maybe you need to carry a bit of metal on a string and drop it in just
the right place :-)

In article said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

thanks for this... but

I *already* try and ride in the middle of what I *think* is the detector
loop (there is some diamond-shaped pattern of bitumen on the road, as if its
been cut open to put the loop in and the bitumen then poured over the loop
to seal the road surface)

but nothing seems to happen. It seems like the loop has been set for buses
as these make the signal work as it should.

In Cambridge we have a bus and cycle lane with a light that only turns
green for bus transponders, and has no detectors for cycles.
So I cycle through the red light on the grounds that's legal if the lights
are broken. (I did report it to the council, who have no plans to fix
the design flaw.)

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

I commute from town to the Claydon area every weekday; this is fine apart
from one minor problem on the journey back (from Claydon to Ipswich suburbs)

There is a bike lane on the Norwich road in both directions. The Northbound
direction is a bit thin (but useable); on the Southbound direction you can
use the bus lane (as is common in many other towns and cities).

One problem is that travelling Southbound, there are traffic lights
presumably for the bus and cycle lane - but the detectors do not trigger so
I end up either having to wait for a bus to trigger them or having to wait
for the traffic in the other lane to not pose a hazard and then run the red
light (which I do not like doing).

Anyone else noticed this?

Yes

Quoted message said:

Am I just being impatient? (I usually give it
about 30 seconds or so)

No

Generally, I used to use [2] the car lane. However, at the first set
(not counting the ones where Old Norwich Road joins the new road - where
The Crown used to be) if both lanes were red, I used to just go through
on the bus lane ones. Naughty, I know, but those lights didn't really
control anything apart from who gets to the next light first. There is
no source of conflicting traffic. The next light is only about thirty
yards on and that is at a proper junction, so I'd treat those properly.

The next set is car lane every time - unless a bus has just passed you
[1] and has triggered the lights. The final set, just before the double
roundabout, I always used the car lane one - especially as I used to
turn right at the roundabout. That set's changed now, anyway - the bus
lane has been done away with.

Quoted message said:

When I lived in Reading lots of traffic signals did seem to recognise bikes
and react accordingly.

When I rode a Kirk, it would never trigger those Norwich Road lights, a
steel bike would... eventually. I felt happier about ignoring that one
red on the Kirk, 'cos I could claim that the lights weren't working
properly. Incidentally, I've seen a very similar set of lights to that
in Cambridge but the Cambridge ones had a green cycle filter light that
cam on when the others were red.

Quoted message said:

Is it worth notifying SCC Highways dept about this problem? It seems minor
but I don't want to put myself in danger or keep breaking the law
(particularly in a town which prides itself on a "Summer of Zero
Tolerance"!)

[1] I used to mainly use the bus lanes, except at the lights. At busy
times, I would also pull out into the car lane if a bus came up behind
be, and allow it through on my inside. When the traffic wasn't busy,
the buses have no trouble pulling out to overtake anyway. Mind you, the
buses can creep up on you without you realising - they're actually a lot
quieter than the car traffic.

[2] In the days when I worked in Ipswich. I still cycle to Ipswich once
a week but I go right over the other side of town now. I still come up
Whitton Hill, but I avoid Norwich Road by going into Whitton Church
Lane, through the estate, in on Henley Road and round the by-pass [3].
That also cuts out all the hills.

[3] The "by-pass" in Ipswich traditionally refers to what any other town
would call the ring road.

--
Andrew

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

One problem is that travelling Southbound, there are traffic lights
presumably for the bus and cycle lane - but the detectors do not trigger so
I end up either having to wait for a bus to trigger them or having to wait
for the traffic in the other lane to not pose a hazard and then run the red
light (which I do not like doing).

Anyone else noticed this? Am I just being impatient? (I usually give it
about 30 seconds or so)

There's one of these in Oxford on Botley Road, just before you reach the
station. If the traffic's not bad I just tend to merge into the normal
traffic and go through on the car side. If the traffic's bad I tend to
just run the red light which isperfectly safe as the bus lane ends just
after this light and there's a cycle lane when it goes to one lane but
you have to wonder why they designed the road like that at all.

Andy

Quoted message said:

-http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

I think I'll send this link to North Somerset council. I have to cycle
past a red light at the end of a cyclepath/garage access/footpath that
just doesn't detect my bike, and has no push-button (and comes out on a
blind junction with no ped crossing) I always put down the non-sensing
of my bike to the fact that it's aluminium, but it seems that isn't the
case.

Alan Braggins said the following on 02/07/2006 17:50:

Quoted message said:

So I cycle through the red light on the grounds that's legal if the lights
are broken.

I'm not sure that's actually true. I seem to remember a while ago that
if a motorist came to a red light that wouldn't change, they were
supposed to turn around and find another route (yeah, right!) Mind you,
in WSM it seems that traffic light colour is irrelevant anyway :-(

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

Alan Braggins said the following on 02/07/2006 17:50:

Quoted message said:

So I cycle through the red light on the grounds that's legal if the lights
are broken.

I'm not sure that's actually true. I seem to remember a while ago that
if a motorist came to a red light that wouldn't change, they were
supposed to turn around and find another route (yeah, right!) Mind you,
in WSM it seems that traffic light colour is irrelevant anyway :-(

I think you are mistaken.

It is permitted to pass lights that are faulty. More interesting is
whether a set of lights showing permanent red and not changing is
faulty. The only time I've seen an actually convincing legal bod
address this was some expert motoring law judge chappy that said (from
memory) that a motorist who comes across a set of lights that is red
and does not change, who waits a sufficient period of time, then
proceeds slowly carefully and cautiously past teh lights, would be
guilty of an offence. However, he would hope that no-one would be so
stupid as to prosecute such an offence. If the case ever came to
court, the correct response of teh court would be an unconditional
discharge.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Ian Smith said the following on 03/07/2006 14:02:

Quoted message said:

I think you are mistaken.

Entirely possible!

Quoted message said:

More interesting is
whether a set of lights showing permanent red and not changing is
faulty.

That was the scenario I meant. A set of lights near me goes out all
the time, but no lights means it's OK to proceed with caution (and the
traffic flow is so much better!) What actually happens is that traffic
on the main road continues at speed as if there was no junction, but
because it is free-flowing there are plenty of gaps for traffic joining
to get out safely.

Quoted message said:

The only time I've seen an actually convincing legal bod
address this was some expert motoring law judge chappy that said (from
memory) that a motorist who comes across a set of lights that is red
and does not change, who waits a sufficient period of time, then
proceeds slowly carefully and cautiously past teh lights, would be
guilty of an offence.

Which is pretty much what I said.

Quoted message said:

However, he would hope that no-one would be so
stupid as to prosecute such an offence.

Don't forget - this is the UK legal system we're talking about here ;-)

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd <[email hidden]>

Quoted message said:

past a red light at the end of a cyclepath/garage access/footpath that

Is that Summerlands Road and was it really a railway line?

Quoted message said:

in WSM it seems that traffic light colour is irrelevant anyway :-(

Hell yeah. Can lead to some amusing situations. Amusing as long as
you're not caught in the middle of them, that is.

--
MJR/slef
http://mjr.towers.org.uk/proj/cyclynn/

MJ Ray said the following on 03/07/2006 15:12:

Quoted message said:

Is that Summerlands Road and was it really a railway line?

Summerlands Road runs alongside what was the Weston, Clevedon and
Portishead Railway. The point at which the cyclepath ends at Ashcombe
Road was the terminus, and what is now the chemist's shop was the
stationmaster's house.

If you're /really/ interested, have a look at http://www.wcandpr.org.uk/
and http://www.portishead.f2s.com/wcpr/The_line_today/Weston_site.JPG
shows the back of the lights in question!

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

thanks for this... but

I *already* try and ride in the middle of what I *think* is the detector
loop (there is some diamond-shaped pattern of bitumen on the road, as if its
been cut open to put the loop in and the bitumen then poured over the loop
to seal the road surface)

but nothing seems to happen. It seems like the loop has been set for buses
as these make the signal work as it should.

Alex

this isn't the only set of lights in ipswich to either fail to trigger
or not be syncronised. Going out of Ipswich the ther way, towards
Suffolk College, via Eagle Street. When the lights change at the main
junction, so do the ones at the other end of eagle street. It is a full
on sprint to get through tem before they change again.

Also, the traffic light on the A12 at Woodbridge/Hasketon, which are
button triggered by peds/cyclists only seem to change when there is no
traffic ... what use is that, plus some cars blindly ignore them as
well. Suffolk CC have been informed, but nothing happened.

"pete whelan" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Mr R@t (2.30zi) said:

"Rob Morley" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

http://www.humantransport.org/bicycledriving/library/signals/green.htm

thanks for this... but

I *already* try and ride in the middle of what I *think* is the detector
loop (there is some diamond-shaped pattern of bitumen on the road, as if
its been cut open to put the loop in and the bitumen then poured over the
loop to seal the road surface)

but nothing seems to happen. It seems like the loop has been set for
buses as these make the signal work as it should.

Alex

this isn't the only set of lights in ipswich to either fail to trigger or
not be syncronised. Going out of Ipswich the ther way, towards Suffolk
College, via Eagle Street. When the lights change at the main junction,
so do the ones at the other end of eagle street. It is a full on sprint
to get through tem before they change again.

Would a small, rare-earth magnet be sufficient to trigger them? Just
asking!
Graham

Paul Boyd said:

Ian Smith said the following on 03/07/2006 14:02:

Quoted message said:

The only time I've seen an actually convincing legal bod
address this was some expert motoring law judge chappy that said (from
memory) that a motorist who comes across a set of lights that is red
and does not change, who waits a sufficient period of time, then
proceeds slowly carefully and cautiously past teh lights, would be
guilty of an offence.

Which is pretty much what I said.

I don't think it is.

You said such a motorist is "supposed to turn around and find another
route" (direct quote). That does not look remotely like what I said.

regards, Ian SMith
--
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|o o|
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