Trumped Up Charges. When is a "Race" a "Race" and what needs a permit?

bill said:

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a322fa-2711-4106-a201-1d80108e6f39

What a disgusting dogpile of officious jerks. Who do these jerks think they
are.

"That which is not permitted is forbidden."

Ron

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a
permit!

I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK)
cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is
no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the
"racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that
is not legally permissible.

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

Someone with better knowledge of the CT vehicle code should probably jump in
here...

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]
(_)/ (_)

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal
activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the
SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of
business before you start.

A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no
responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop
watches at the start/finish.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

In article <[email hidden]>,
[email hidden] says...

Quoted message said:

I'm not a lawyer, but it sure seems to me that they should not need a
permit!

I'm assuming that in Connecticut (as in all other states AFAIK)
cyclists have a right to use the road, and I'm assuming that there is
no specific state law banning ... what? Riding fast? Assuming the
"racers" are not exceeding the speed limit, they are doing nothing that
is not legally permissible.

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

Someone with better knowledge of the CT vehicle code should probably jump in

--

__o Kristian Zoerhoff
_'\(,_ [email hidden]

When I lived in New Haven, CT our club sponsored weekly USCF sanctioned
time trials on an open road course. This went on for years and there
was never a problem.

There wwere also weekly group rides that sometimes had over 100 riders
and as they were "unofficial races" they caused much more traffic
disruption than the TT's. But no one sponsored them so it really was
nothing more than a large group of individual cyclists.

Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time.

Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass
crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process.
In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires
a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have
better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how
they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That
approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos
Verdes, CA.

Curtis L. Russell said:

Kristian M Zoerhoff said:

It depends. If the ride is an officially sanctioned event (as it would seem to
be), CT state law may have specific regulations on it. IL state law certainly
does (625 ILCS 5/11-1514 for the morbidly curious).

In Maryland it is enough that an event effects the safe and normal
activities on a state road. You need a permit, I think through the
SHA. If they decide that you need State Police, you may end up out of
business before you start.

A time trial might manage the critical mass tactic of no organizer, no
responsible person, but I wouldn't want to be the guy with the stop
watches at the start/finish.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

bill said:

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a322fa-2711-4106-a201-1d80108e6f39

Here's a race that's not quite a race. Any guesses why that is?

http://www.active.com/event_detail.cfm?event_id=1335614

Bret

In article <[email hidden]>,

Bret said:

bill said:

http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=e5a322fa-2711-4106-a201-1d80108e6f39

Here's a race that's not quite a race. Any guesses why that is?

http://www.active.com/event_detail.cfm?event_id=1335614

Bret

So Tyler can enter?

--
tanx,
Howard

Never take a tenant with a monkey.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

Chris Neary said:

At least in Alameda Country, California, one of the prerequisites for
something to be termed a "parade" is that traffic laws must be
suspended.

Not true.

In Alameda County, a bike ride is a "parade" depending
on the whims of Sheriff Plummer.

See http://www.ebbc.org/newsletter/may2006.pdf

Quoted message said:

Chris Neary
[email hidden]

"We will teach our twisted speech to the young believers"
-- The Clash

Simon Brooke said:

You are in a time trial anyway, so that's a canard.

What have you got against canadians ?

Donald Munro said:

Simon Brooke wrote:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

You are in a time trial anyway, so that's a canard.

What have you got against canadians ?

Went through this a week or so ago in RBT. They preferred ducks -- although
that was just a canard itself.

in message <[email hidden]>, Donald

Munro (') said:

Simon Brooke said:

You are in a time trial anyway, so that's a canard.

What have you got against canadians ?

Sublimated Oedipus complex. My father was a canuck.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; An enamorata is for life, not just for weekends.

"Philo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time.

Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass
crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process.
In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires
a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have
better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how
they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That
approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos
Verdes, CA.

Since I was part of that Alameda County matter I'll explain it to those who
aren't aware of it.

The Alameda County Sheriffs Department arrested the director of our Century
for not taking out a parade permit. Note that the specific law requires that
when a parade permit is issued that the roads IN BOTH DIRECTIONS be closed
and that police patrol the ENTIRE event. NONE of these requirements had ever
been honored by the Alameda County Sheriffs Department and none of the
surrounding counties required parade permits for Centurys.

It later turned out that the Vice Sheriff, or whatever he was called, who
instigated the action, was the brother-in-law of the man who had been
complaining constantly about cyclists out in that area of the Livermore
Valley. Even when notifications were personally delivered to his door (he
wouldn't answer his door and hence we'd always have to leave notifications
taped to his door - "I never got any notification"😉 he would complain that
he intended to move cattle down the public roads that day without any sort
of permit requirements for that.

Have you ever seen what a couple of hundred head of cattle who have been
eating alfalfa do to a road? Green runny [censored] 2" thick on the roadway with
NO requirements for the rancher to clean the road up. There could be a half
mile of road completely covered like this. Imagine having to throw your bike
onto your shoulder and walking through this for a half mile worried the
whole way about falling down into it?

But the BAD guys were the Century riders out there and the Valley Spokesmen
winter races in three Saturdays for women and children. One rancher with the
complete support of the Alameda Sheriffs Department effectively destroyed
events that covered perhaps a thousand or more Alameda County residents and
the county officials cooperated with this 100%.

This is the sort of government here in California so why should it be
different where you live?

Tom Kunich said:

"Philo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time.

Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass
crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process.
In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires
a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have
better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how
they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That
approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos
Verdes, CA.

Since I was part of that Alameda County matter I'll explain it to those who
aren't aware of it.

The Alameda County Sheriffs Department arrested the director of our Century
for not taking out a parade permit. Note that the specific law requires that
when a parade permit is issued that the roads IN BOTH DIRECTIONS be closed
and that police patrol the ENTIRE event. NONE of these requirements had ever
been honored by the Alameda County Sheriffs Department and none of the
surrounding counties required parade permits for Centurys.

It later turned out that the Vice Sheriff, or whatever he was called, who
instigated the action, was the brother-in-law of the man who had been
complaining constantly about cyclists out in that area of the Livermore
Valley. Even when notifications were personally delivered to his door (he
wouldn't answer his door and hence we'd always have to leave notifications
taped to his door - "I never got any notification"😉 he would complain that
he intended to move cattle down the public roads that day without any sort
of permit requirements for that.

Have you ever seen what a couple of hundred head of cattle who have been
eating alfalfa do to a road? Green runny [censored] 2" thick on the roadway with
NO requirements for the rancher to clean the road up. There could be a half
mile of road completely covered like this. Imagine having to throw your bike
onto your shoulder and walking through this for a half mile worried the
whole way about falling down into it?

But the BAD guys were the Century riders out there and the Valley Spokesmen
winter races in three Saturdays for women and children. One rancher with the
complete support of the Alameda Sheriffs Department effectively destroyed
events that covered perhaps a thousand or more Alameda County residents and
the county officials cooperated with this 100%.

This is the sort of government here in California so why should it be
different where you live?

Because they haven't Californicated Florida yet.

The phrase was from a bumpersticker popular around here about twenty years ago:
"Don't Californicate Florida."

Ron

RonSonic said:

Tom Kunich said:

"Philo" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Cyclists are safe and normal users of the road. And cars disrupt my
safe and normal bicycling all the time.

Sounds arbitrary and similar to the NYC and LA Critical Mass
crackdowns, as well as the Alameda County (California) permit process.
In other words it is possibly illegal to require a permit, but requires
a court action to overturn any police chief decision. You may have
better luck with a sit-down meeting with the police to figure out how
they would like you to proceed safely and try and work together. That
approach has worked on occasion with the Saturday morning ride in Palos
Verdes, CA.

Since I was part of that Alameda County matter I'll explain it to those who
aren't aware of it.

The Alameda County Sheriffs Department arrested the director of our Century
for not taking out a parade permit. Note that the specific law requires that
when a parade permit is issued that the roads IN BOTH DIRECTIONS be closed
and that police patrol the ENTIRE event. NONE of these requirements had ever
been honored by the Alameda County Sheriffs Department and none of the
surrounding counties required parade permits for Centurys.

It later turned out that the Vice Sheriff, or whatever he was called, who
instigated the action, was the brother-in-law of the man who had been
complaining constantly about cyclists out in that area of the Livermore
Valley. Even when notifications were personally delivered to his door (he
wouldn't answer his door and hence we'd always have to leave notifications
taped to his door - "I never got any notification"😉 he would complain that
he intended to move cattle down the public roads that day without any sort
of permit requirements for that.

Have you ever seen what a couple of hundred head of cattle who have been
eating alfalfa do to a road? Green runny [censored] 2" thick on the roadway with
NO requirements for the rancher to clean the road up. There could be a half
mile of road completely covered like this. Imagine having to throw your bike
onto your shoulder and walking through this for a half mile worried the
whole way about falling down into it?

But the BAD guys were the Century riders out there and the Valley Spokesmen
winter races in three Saturdays for women and children. One rancher with the
complete support of the Alameda Sheriffs Department effectively destroyed
events that covered perhaps a thousand or more Alameda County residents and
the county officials cooperated with this 100%.

This is the sort of government here in California so why should it be
different where you live?

Because they haven't Californicated Florida yet.

The phrase was from a bumpersticker popular around here about twenty years ago:
"Don't Californicate Florida."

Ron

That is such an obvious and bogus charge that you should be able to have
it heard in a state court or if they get pissy take it to a federal
court and have them read California the riot act.
Don't just roll over and play dead. If all the riders contribute a bit
each you should be able to afford a good attorney, hopefully a rider, to
take on the challenge.
This is pure [censored] and you should not let the [censored] wit the badge
get away with it.
*******************************
The Alameda County Sheriffs Department arrested the director of our
Century

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for not taking out a parade permit.

***************************************

Can you say "False Arrest"?
There should be some way to sue for damages and defamation of character.
Do SOMETHING.
Bill Baka

"Bill" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

That is such an obvious and bogus charge that you should be able to have
it heard in a state court or if they get pissy take it to a federal court
and have them read California the riot act.
Don't just roll over and play dead. If all the riders contribute a bit
each you should be able to afford a good attorney, hopefully a rider, to
take on the challenge.
This is pure [censored] and you should not let the [censored] wit the badge get
away with it.

Bill, it takes a LOT of money to fight the Sheriffs Department if the county
decides to support him and they did despite the fact that several county
supervisors were incensed at this sort of treatment. Remember that legal
charges were hanging over the head of our Century director and since he'd
been a cop himself he wasn't very happy with having the possibility of jail
time.

Every time someone agrees with things like Seat Belt Laws and Helmet Laws
they are ASKING for fascists to run them. So you can't very well complain
when they do as they're expected.

Quoted message said:

*******************************
The Alameda County Sheriffs Department arrested the director of our
Century

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

for not taking out a parade permit.

***************************************

Can you say "False Arrest"?
There should be some way to sue for damages and defamation of character.
Do SOMETHING.

Are you a lawyer licensed in California? Are you willing to commit to this
case for free? Do you have some place to obtain the financial support it
would take? We still have $2K in the legal fund but that would hardly pay
for the filing fees.