max heart-rate

sothach said:

Anyone know if it's dangerous to be pushing up near your (theoretical)
max HR when cycling?
I've always felt that you're body would give you feedback when your
pushing too hard, and seriously discourage you from carrying on.

Friday I tried a hill on the fixie that is hard enough on a geared
bike, and about 1/2 way, I had to gave up - I was running at 97%
according to the watch. I didn't suffer any bad effects, pushed the
bike to the top and carried on with the ride.

Seemed like you got teh feedback you wanted :-)

Working up to your 'theoretical' max can only be done for short periods, what tends to happen is that the if you keep training at that high level is that teh oxygen uptake, and lactic acid tollerance will increase, thus it gradually becomes harder for you to reach the max unless you increase the effort, as you become fitter.

Bryan

sothach wrote on 17/07/2006 14:40 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Anyone know if it's dangerous to be pushing up near your (theoretical)
max HR when cycling?
I've always felt that you're body would give you feedback when your
pushing too hard, and seriously discourage you from carrying on.

Friday I tried a hill on the fixie that is hard enough on a geared
bike, and about 1/2 way, I had to gave up - I was running at 97%
according to the watch. I didn't suffer any bad effects, pushed the
bike to the top and carried on with the ride.

How did you find your MHR to start with? If it was the old (220 - age)
you've started with a useless figure anyway. Under that rule I'm still
20 ;-)

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Tony Raven said:

sothach wrote on 17/07/2006 14:40 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Anyone know if it's dangerous to be pushing up near your (theoretical)
max HR when cycling?
I've always felt that you're body would give you feedback when your
pushing too hard, and seriously discourage you from carrying on.

Friday I tried a hill on the fixie that is hard enough on a geared
bike, and about 1/2 way, I had to gave up - I was running at 97%
according to the watch. I didn't suffer any bad effects, pushed the
bike to the top and carried on with the ride.

How did you find your MHR to start with? If it was the old (220 - age)
you've started with a useless figure anyway. Under that rule I'm still
20 ;-)

Na, it was the ol' MHR=217 - (0.85 × Age) chestnut, which gives me 178
- I know its fairly dodgy, that why I was wondering how much (more) I
should push it.

I guess my questions is, can I blow a gasket or does a governor kick-in
before that? I gonna do that hill, I swear it... .

Bryan said:

sothach Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Seemed like you got teh feedback you wanted :-)

I wimped out, could have gone another 3% I'm sure, but when I saw the
the numbers, I thought, like, dude, you're dead!

Quoted message said:

Working up to your 'theoretical' max can only be done for short
periods, what tends to happen is that the if you keep training at that
high level is that teh oxygen uptake, and lactic acid tollerance will
increase, thus it gradually becomes harder for you to reach the max
unless you increase the effort, as you become fitter.

So if I keep attacking this hill, the HR needed will drop?

quote='sothach'Bryan said:

sothach Wrote:

Quoted message said:

Seemed like you got teh feedback you wanted :-)

I wimped out, could have gone another 3% I'm sure, but when I saw the
the numbers, I thought, like, dude, you're dead!

Quoted message said:

Working up to your 'theoretical' max can only be done for short
periods, what tends to happen is that the if you keep training at that
high level is that teh oxygen uptake, and lactic acid tollerance will
increase, thus it gradually becomes harder for you to reach the max
unless you increase the effort, as you become fitter.

So if I keep attacking this hill, the HR needed will drop?[/QUOTE]

Yup, well that's the theory anyway. and of course up to a point. Pro-cyclists will ride for periods at about 185, but have a resting rate of around 40, so are thus putting in loads of effort, should you try and put achieve the same power/speed, you're (current untrained) HR would be >200 :-), Hence training lowers your resting pulse rate as your ability to process oxygen increases and so does your tolerance to lactic acid (for anaerobic exercise).

As for findind your actuall max, it really makes you knackered, find a hill, cycle up it as fast as possible, roll down, and repeat abotu 5 times, when you fall of teh bike for the last time, that's about as close to your max as your goign to get. My max using formulae comes out at about 190, but I've been running and got it over 200 (for a short period) :-)

Bryan

sothach wrote on 17/07/2006 15:41 +0100:

Quoted message said:

Na, it was the ol' MHR=217 - (0.85 × Age) chestnut, which gives me 178
- I know its fairly dodgy, that why I was wondering how much (more) I
should push it.

I guess my questions is, can I blow a gasket or does a governor kick-in
before that? I gonna do that hill, I swear it... .

I manage 30 above the figure your formula would give on the hills. If
you are unfit and getting back into cycling then I would be very wary of
running high heart rates but as you get fitter it should not be a
problem. Formula 1 drivers can run at over 200 for most of the race.

Best advice is forget the heart rate monitor unless you are doing
specific training that needs it and listen to your body instead. It will
tell you all you need to know.

--
Tony

"Anyone who conducts an argument by appealing to authority is not using
his intelligence; he is just using his memory."
- Leonardo da Vinci

Quoted message said:

I guess my questions is, can I blow a gasket or does a governor kick-in
before that? I gonna do that hill, I swear it... .

I'm no doctor, so I offer no warranty... my understanding was that, if
you're used to exercise, going flat out isn't going to damage anything
(I'm quoting the instructions from my cheapo hrm for establishing one's
peak heart rate). As Brian suggested, you'll soon stop anyway.

Bryan said:

Quoted message said:

Pro-cyclists will ride for periods at about 185, but have a resting
rate of around 40

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Bryan

Ha mine is 39 and I am not as fit as I was 🙂 as demonstrated today when
I only managed 200 sit ups in my exercise period and 10K in 45 mins.
Still first week back after the collision. I never found maxing out to
be a problem in any of the training I have done, and I've done some mad
things...Basically the more you do the less it becomes a problem over
time unless you are unfit to start with. Or, to put it another way,
1) If your in pain you ain't dead.
2) If you can think about the pain you can keep going.
3) If you can think about stopping you can still keep going.
4) If your not thinking about the pain and your not thinking of stopping
quit [censored] and get on with the march.

Ahhh those good old days...

Sniper8052

Sniper8052(L96A1) said:

1) If your in pain you ain't dead.
2) If you can think about the pain you can keep going.
3) If you can think about stopping you can still keep going.
4) If your not thinking about the pain and your not thinking of stopping
quit [censored] and get on with the march.

The last one gave it away: this advice was 'given' to you by a member
of a government organisation (most likely with a very short haircut and
a loud mouth), to who you being dead or not was not the most important
consideration.
Still, sounds like good advice all the same...

Tony Raven said:

I manage 30 above the figure your formula would give on the hills. If
you are unfit and getting back into cycling then I would be very wary of
running high heart rates but as you get fitter it should not be a
problem.

I think my fitness is ok, I haul a 50kg trailer up 500m per day as part
of the school run (with gears), but I've got addicted to riding
fixed-wheel (32/13), and the hill in question maxes-out at a nice 30%,
I saw gear-heads riding up it in the prelude of the Tour de Luxembourg
a few weeks back, and decided I'm gonna get up that on the fixer. Got
half-way on the first go...

Quoted message said:

Best advice is forget the heart rate monitor unless you are doing
specific training that needs it and listen to your body instead. It will
tell you all you need to know.

Like another posted said - if you're feeling pain, you ain'd dead. But
I find I ride harder with a bit of feedback, like max speed, altitude,
cadence, etc., and without the hrm I slack off (unless I spot a shiny
bike summounted by a lycra-clad body: then it's game on!).

sothach said:

I've always felt that you're body would give you feedback when your
pushing too hard, and seriously discourage you from carrying on.

It does - it's that moment when your legs turn to jelly and no matter
what you do, you are going to have to ease off and let your lactic acid
levels in your leg muscles decrease.

Provided you warm up beforehand (10-15 mins gradually increasing
effort) and back down again (10-15 mins gradually decreasing effort)
after your maximal efforts (and presuming you are not suffering any
congenital heart defect), you should feel no ill effects other than
feeling knackered with heavy legs!

Just out of interest, I recently did a maximal test at Brunel
University. My stats were:
resting pulse = 39
maximum heart rate = 176 (recorded on another occassion)
theoretical max (220 - age) = 182
heartrate at aerobic threshold = 135
power output at aerobic threshold = 230 watts
heartrate at anaerobic threshold = 157
power output at anaerobic threshold = 270 watts
VO2 max = 55 (Lance Armstrong's is 89)
conclusion = don't give up the day job ;-)

Cheers
Bronzie