Suntour XC self energising canti brakes - good or gimmicky?

Keiron said:

Hi all,

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em on
the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior braking
over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

many thanks

Quick google search resulted in a negative post about them, if used
wrong.

http://www.urlbee.com?7312

tom

Quoting Keiron <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em on
the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior braking
over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

On a regular bicycle any brake of sensible design, competently installed
and adjusted, will lock the rear wheel or lift it (if the front brake is
being used). Hence you cannot have more braking with a change of brakes.
The non-linear response of the self-energisers is not really useful for
control purposes, either.

On the back of a tandem, on the other hand...
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?
Today is Gorgonzoladay, Presuary - a weekend.

"Tom The Great" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Hi all,

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior

braking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

many thanks

Quick google search resulted in a negative post about them, if used
wrong.

http://www.urlbee.com?7312

tom

Aha! i have indeed done the google search which is why i thought i'd ask the
people who matter. Any personal experiences?
thanks

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Quoting Keiron <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior

braking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

On a regular bicycle any brake of sensible design, competently installed
and adjusted, will lock the rear wheel or lift it (if the front brake is
being used). Hence you cannot have more braking with a change of brakes.

Hmmmm, yes but you can have better and poorer design brakes, i was wondering
if with this variance in design if they represent a superior technology.

Quoted message said:

The non-linear response of the self-energisers is not really useful for
control purposes, either.

Sorry, don't understand this, still learning. is the non-linear response as
a result of a coil spring shape or are you refering to the actual motion of
the brakes?

Thanks

keiron

Keiron said:

Hi all,

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em on
the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior braking
over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

many thanks

Tried the rear ones. Very weak with the stock pads, couldn't even lock
the wheel. Not much better with aftermarket pads. Now using Tektro
Oryx instead, which avoids the worst misfeature of the SE brakes: the
plain-post pad mounting system, which only works if you are an alien
with 4 hands.

"Zog The Undeniable" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:44bbf854.0@entanet...

Quoted message said:

Keiron said:

Hi all,

Any opinion on the Suntour XC self energising brakes? i've just seen em

on

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the web and my trousers got a little wet with excitment but i want to be
sure they're more than just a gimmick. So, do they provide superior

braking

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

over standard canti design assuming setup correctly?

many thanks

Tried the rear ones. Very weak with the stock pads, couldn't even lock
the wheel. Not much better with aftermarket pads. Now using Tektro
Oryx instead, which avoids the worst misfeature of the SE brakes: the
plain-post pad mounting system, which only works if you are an alien
with 4 hands.

LOL, indeed. I've been looking at Tektro and Avid too, looks like one of
these will be a better bet then. cheers.

Quoting Keiron <[email hidden]>:

Quoted message said:

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> wrote in message

Quoted message said:

Quoting Keiron <[email hidden]>:
On a regular bicycle any brake of sensible design, competently installed
and adjusted, will lock the rear wheel or lift it (if the front brake is
being used). Hence you cannot have more braking with a change of brakes.

Hmmmm, yes but you can have better and poorer design brakes,

In a sense you can, yes, but the differences in design quality between
brakes of adequate design are completely irrelevant on normal bicycles
(when it comes to braking power; obviously reliability, etc. may be an
issue).

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

The non-linear response of the self-energisers is not really useful for
control purposes, either.

Sorry, don't understand this, still learning. is the non-linear response as
a result of a coil spring shape or are you refering to the actual motion of
the brakes?

The brakes use the forward pressure from the rim to produce more inwards
pressure - "self-energising". Hence if you pull the lever a little you get
a little braking but a little more pressure suddenly gives you a whole lot
of braking, rendering them more prone to rear lockups than regular brakes.
--
David Damerell <[email hidden]> flcl?
Today is First Potmos, July.

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> > >Sorry, don't
understand this, still learning. is the non-linear response as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a result of a coil spring shape or are you refering to the actual motion

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the brakes?

The brakes use the forward pressure from the rim to produce more inwards
pressure - "self-energising". Hence if you pull the lever a little you get
a little braking but a little more pressure suddenly gives you a whole lot
of braking, rendering them more prone to rear lockups than regular brakes.

I see, thanks dave. looks like avid shorties are the way forward.

cheers

Keiron said:

"David Damerell" <[email hidden]> > >Sorry, don't
understand this, still learning. is the non-linear response as

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

a result of a coil spring shape or are you refering to the actual motion

of

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

the brakes?

The brakes use the forward pressure from the rim to produce more inwards
pressure - "self-energising". Hence if you pull the lever a little you get
a little braking but a little more pressure suddenly gives you a whole lot
of braking, rendering them more prone to rear lockups than regular brakes.

I see, thanks dave. looks like avid shorties are the way forward.

cheers

The Suntour was picked up from Scott Pederson.

I've had the oiriginal Scott Pedersons on a MTB (rear only) and as
stock equipment on a Cannondale tandem (both wheels). I never noticed
extra braking power. Seemed like it should have worked but didn't.

Jim