Recumbent Advice

Matt said:

I am now set on buying a recumbent and have seen this on eBay
http://tinyurl.com/z6q47 (item 280015391848). Does anyone have any views
on this particular model? I am guessing by the front shock absorber (more
than anything) that this particular bike is about 6 to 8years old.

The Meks carbon fork became standard more recently than 6 years ago (I
think mine is 2001, and has the Ballistic like this). If it was 8 years
old it would probably be 24 rather than 27, and the blue finish became
an option round about when I bought mine.

So, on to the bike itself, I am *very* happy with mine. I would
disagree with the seller's comment that it's fast: while not a lame duck
in the speed stakes it certainly doesn't qualify as fast unless you're
going down a hill. Get a Speedmachine or the like if you want to go
fast. Another point where the seller has it wrong is £1,300 for a new
one, it would be quite a bit *more*, they start at £1,350 without racks
or mudguards and this one looks like it has the (nice but pricey)
airflow seat cushion too.

As a tourer the only thing I'll say against it is it's a bit heavy, but
everything that adds weight is doing something useful for you. Don't
buy it if it'll have to be lugged up a few flights of stairs on a
regular basis, and if you want a sporty machine you'd be better off
elsewhere. If you like cruising in regal comfort it's got to be near
the top of the pile though.

All 'bents are a bit different, so if possible ride a Streetmachine
before bidding if you can. Bikefix have quite possibly got a demo bike
available, though note if it's the GTe that has a different seat (the
new one, which won't fit this bike, is Super Duper and adjustable in
many ways and is apparently the last word in comfort but to be quite
frank I prefer the original seat, as featured on this machine, but the
point to note is that they're different and you can't judge one by the
other)

Quoted message said:

The age doesn't worry me as long as the bike has been well maintained. Are
there any particular problems to look out for on recumbents (i.e. signs of
incompetent maintenance!)?

No more so than on anything else. D-Tek (from whence this came) have a
good reputation and it hasn't been far since coming from there. As far
as I'm aware there aren't many particular Streetmachine GT issues, aside
from maybe the foam on the idler wheel might need replacing
(transmission gets noisy when it dies though everthing still /works/,
new one is a few quid from Kinetics or Bikefix, or free if you've just
bought a new set of hydraulic brakes from them!). The bike is a good
example of stereotypical German over-engineering so it's not going to
have stuff just fall to bits because there's a 'y' in the day.

Only thing I've replaced on my similar spec one is the brakes and
pedals. The original brakes are okay, but certainly nothing to write
home about. I had a set of Magura HS-33s hydraulic rim brakes fitted,
and they made life much better. Note that the Ballistic fork supplied
here doesn't have disc mounts, so if you want discs rather than rim
brakes you'll need to replace the fork (but the HS-33s are so good I've
not really wanted anything else).
The pedals are basically okay too but a recumbent like this simply works
much, much better with clipless.

Mine has a couple of things this doesn't: first, the lowrider rack which
is well worth it if you've got *heavy* stuff on board as it lets you put
it under the rider between the wheels so there's pretty much zero affect
on handling excpet to glue you to the road better. For more typical
loads the rear rack alone is fine though, but do note it's oversize 12mm
tubing which means some panniers won't fit (I had to replace my old
Carradice Overlanders with some Ortliebs). The lowrider rack can be
bought from Bikefix or Kinetics and fitted yourself if you do want one
in future.
Second thing I have is the dynohub lighting, which has a couple of
things going for it: (a) it's very good, and (b) it'll be a bit of a
pain mounting a front lamp otherwise. There are braze-ons on the
derailleur tube and one on the underside of the boom front so All Is Not
Lost, but a handlebar mount type will almost certainly require Fettling
to some degree to fit (a B&M dynamo lamp bracket fits easily to the
braze-ons).

HTH, Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Matt said:

Spent a very pleasant day with Future cycles last Friday test riding
recumbents.

I would whole heartedly recommend it to anyone even if you've no
intention of buying a recumbent. There is an excellent cycle route
that starts about 200 m from the shop that is completely traffic free
(and pretty deserted on the day I was there).

I am now set on buying a recumbent and have seen this on eBay
http://tinyurl.com/z6q47 (item 280015391848). Does anyone have any
views on this particular model? I am guessing by the front shock
absorber (more than anything) that this particular bike is about 6 to
8years old.

The age doesn't worry me as long as the bike has been well
maintained. Are there any particular problems to look out for on
recumbents (i.e. signs of incompetent maintenance!)?

Can't really go wrong with a Streetmachine; they are pretty nearly
bullet-proof.

The rear shock may be a cheap and nasty Thing as used on crappy full-sus
MTB's - they die eventually, symptom being that it feels like you've got a
rear-wheel p+nct+r+ even when you haven't. Consider upgrading; Chain
Reaction are still doing the DT Swiss SSD 225 - which is an option on HP
Velotechnik bikes - for a hundred quid off list (though at a hundred and
fifty notes it's still not cheap...).

Chain tubes wear out - their life can be extended by rotating them every so
often, and if it's been thrashed the idler pulley may as well, though the
one on my Speedmachine is still going strong after nearly 21,000 km.

Dark Siders tend to use the gears a lot more than uprights, so the gear
shifters may be subject to a bit more wear and tear than on a horsey bike.
The Streetmachine usually uses bar-end shifters, which are pretty reliable,
though the rear one on my Trice has started to feel a bit odd recently. The
derailleurs themselves should be OK; I've still got the originals on the
Speedmachine (though the Trice ate its front one last weekend).

Just about everything else shouldn't give any more trouble than the same
bits on an upright.

HTH

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative.

Peter Clinch twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

though note if it's the GTe that has a different seat (the
new one, which won't fit this bike, is Super Duper and adjustable in
many ways and is apparently the last word in comfort but to be quite
frank I prefer the original seat, as featured on this machine, but the
point to note is that they're different and you can't judge one by the
other)

Owning both a Streetmachine (one that's even older than the one on eBay,
and incidentally, also for sale!) and a Grasshopper and having thus
experienced both the old seat and the BodyLink design I'd have to say I'm
with Peter on this one. The old seat was better - it's the only thing
I don't like about my Grasshopper.

Quoted message said:

Second thing I have is the dynohub lighting, which has a couple of
things going for it: (a) it's very good, and (b) it'll be a bit of a
pain mounting a front lamp otherwise.

I went for SON dynohub on my Grasshopper and would agree it's "the way
forwards"(TM). However if you want to mount lights on a Streetmachine
then I'd suggest mounting a Minoura SpaceGrip onto the front deraileur
tube.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Response to Alistair Gunn:

Quoted message said:

However if you want to mount lights on a Streetmachine
then I'd suggest mounting a Minoura SpaceGrip onto the front deraileur
tube.

Much as I like the idea of the SpaceGrip (and I use one on the trike for
mounting lights), I found I had to stock up on Loctite, insulating tape,
bits of old inner tube and a few selections from Captain Haddock's
vocabulary before it would stay put. It's all right now, unless I
breathe too hard on it.

I'd recommend that the OP changes the pedals to clipless if he buys the
bike: I wondered if they'd been put on just for the auction.

--
Mark, UK
"How future generations will get on without us is indeed, when we come
to think of it, quite a puzzle. But I suppose they will get on somehow,
and may possibly venture to revise our judgments as we have revised
earlier judgments."

Mark McNeill said:

I'd recommend that the OP changes the pedals to clipless if he buys the
bike: I wondered if they'd been put on just for the auction.

They look like the set I have in the parts bin that originally came
fitted to my Streetmachine...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Response to Peter Clinch:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I'd recommend that the OP changes the pedals to clipless if he buys the
bike: I wondered if they'd been put on just for the auction.

They look like the set I have in the parts bin that originally came
fitted to my Streetmachine...

Well, I am surprised. I'm [moderately] surprised at firms selling
recumbents with pedals at all; IIRC, AVD at least usually sell
Windcheetahs w/o pedals, because customers are likely to be already
committed to some clipless system or other.

Suitable sig for a recumbent thread.

--
Mark, UK
"I don't mind people looking down on me as long as they don't expect me
to be looking up."

Mark McNeill said:

Much as I like the idea of the SpaceGrip (and I use one on the trike
for mounting lights), I found I had to stock up on Loctite,
insulating tape, bits of old inner tube and a few selections from
Captain Haddock's vocabulary before it would stay put. It's all
right now, unless I breathe too hard on it.

I have long suspected that these things are fabricated from Cheese. Both my
road-going recumbents feature something similar in principle, being an
Ahead-style stem affixed to the summit for the front derailleur post,
supporting a horizontal length of surplus-to-requirements tube, as may be
seen here:

<URL:http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/images/cosimo/BottomBrackets.jp
g>

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left.

Mark McNeill said:

Well, I am surprised. I'm [moderately] surprised at firms selling
recumbents with pedals at all; IIRC, AVD at least usually sell
Windcheetahs w/o pedals, because customers are likely to be already
committed to some clipless system or other.

A sports tadpole with far more leg-suck opportunity and a relatively
sedate tourer where leg-suck would have to be thought about to achieve
are good examples to illustrate that "recumbent" on its own isn't a very
useful class to lump everything into...

While I certainly think the Streetmachine benefits a lot from clipless
you can reasonably use it without, and something like a Spirit I think
I'd prefer to use without in a lot of cases. But not using clipless on
a Windcheetah would inspire shades of "what are they /thinking/?".

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Dave Larrington said:

Mark McNeill said:

Much as I like the idea of the SpaceGrip (and I use one on the trike
for mounting lights), I found I had to stock up on Loctite,
insulating tape, bits of old inner tube and a few selections from
Captain Haddock's vocabulary before it would stay put. It's all
right now, unless I breathe too hard on it.

I have long suspected that these things are fabricated from Cheese. Both my
road-going recumbents feature something similar in principle, being an
Ahead-style stem affixed to the summit for the front derailleur post,
supporting a horizontal length of surplus-to-requirements tube, as may be
seen here:

<URL:http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/images/cosimo/BottomBrackets.jp
g>

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it left.

Like wot Legs said (but his url didn't work for me), an inverted stem +
a bit of old handlebar works for me on my Grasshopper
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/crokeracousticsltd/Grasshopper/Light
bracket.jpg
Definitely a tad overengineered - but goes with the rest of the bike 😉

Mark McNeill twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Response to Alistair Gunn:

Quoted message said:

However if you want to mount lights on a Streetmachine
then I'd suggest mounting a Minoura SpaceGrip onto the front deraileur
tube.

Much as I like the idea of the SpaceGrip (and I use one on the trike for
mounting lights), I found I had to stock up on Loctite, insulating tape,
bits of old inner tube and a few selections from Captain Haddock's
vocabulary before it would stay put. It's all right now, unless I
breathe too hard on it.

The SpaceGrip on mine was fine unless I knocked it with my legs whilst
getting on/off ... YMMV of course, and clearly did!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

in message <[email hidden]>, Alistair Gunn

(') said:

Owning both a Streetmachine (one that's even older than the one on
eBay, and incidentally, also for sale!)  and a Grasshopper

Comparative review, please?

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Due to financial constraints, the light at the end of the tunnel
has been switched off.

Peter Clinch said:

A sports tadpole with far more leg-suck opportunity and a relatively
sedate tourer where leg-suck would have to be thought about to achieve
are good examples to illustrate that "recumbent" on its own isn't a very
useful class to lump everything into...

Apologies for a newbie question ..

I keep coming across warnings about leg-suck and could see how it
would happen. Is there a case for an under-pedal fairing, which
would catch a slipped foot and keep it off the ground ? This would
perhaps work better on a bike with a low seat and high crank, but
AIUI that's also where the greatest danger is.

-adrian

Simon Brooke said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Alistair Gunn

(') said:

Owning both a Streetmachine (one that's even older than the one on
eBay, and incidentally, also for sale!) and a Grasshopper

Comparative review, please?

My Grasshopper experience is limited to a few miles on Ben's first GH
demo (underseat steering and a compact twin front derailleur, I think
the one in now is overseat and Dualdrive).

That caveat aside, main points are:

- what one will do the other will largely do too. For serious
load-lugging the Streetmachine will do better as the lowrider rack is
between the wheels rather than mounted slightly to the rear. On the
other side, the GH is lighter and a bit lower so will go faster, though
it's no sort of racer.

- The GH is 20/20 so only one flavour of tyre and tube needed. That
also makes off-the-shelf gearing slightly less suited (though not to the
extent of being a major PITA) and the derailleur will be more vulnerable
to prangage if you're riding through rocks etc., but again I don't think
that's likely to be a deal-breaker.

- The GH has the Bodylink seat, which I've yet to be truly convinced
about. The Streetmachine GT has a static seat in one of 3 sizes, the
GTe (GT in aluminium and an improved idler setup, but otherwise mostly
similar AFAICT) has a Bodylink.

- The default colours are different.

Best thing is a trip to Glasgow and try both of them out. Beyond that
I'd say that the GH is a better general purpose machine from just being
that bit lighter, or in my case would be if only I liked the seat more,
and the Streetmachine is better for sedate touring as it does 4 pannier
loads better and the higher seat means a better view around you.

The Speedmachine is to the GH what the GH is to the Streetmachine in
terms of laid-back lowness. It now comes with underseat steering option
and 4 pannier ability, though as with the GH the lowriders are well back
compared to the Streetmachine's. Ben has one of those in too (current
one is underseat version, IIRC).

I think I prefer Roos' Fiero to the Grasshopper as a nice do-most-things
20/20, though it's lower down and more laid back which may or may not
suit. I don't like the seat as much as the old HPVel one, but I prefer
it to the Bodylink, or at least the Bodylink as I've tried it on several
different stages of personal fettling trying to get it to the right
shape... For a 20/26 tourer alternative, David at Laidback in Embra
currently has a Nazca Paseo (as reviewed in the last VV), which I'd have
a go of next time you're over that way.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Simon Brooke twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Alistair Gunn

(') said:

Owning both a Streetmachine (one that's even older than the one on
eBay, and incidentally, also for sale!) and a Grasshopper

Comparative review, please?

Errr ... Okay, here goes!

Please bear in mind that the Streetmachine referred to in this article is
an old one with a 700C rear wheel and an elastomer block for the rear
suspension. Therefore, not all of my comments will necesarily apply to
the current model.

I'm also comparing a OSS Grasshopper with an USS Streetmachine, which
means that comments about the turning circle would be a little unfair.
In anycase, it's very rare that I actually use that extra tightness.

I didn't really notice the drop in seat height (90mm on current models
according to HP Velotechnik), other than the fact that it meant I could
now get both feet flat on the floor when stopped!

I have noticed is that it seems to be impossible to make the BodyLink
stay firmly fixed in place - however that may be because I use the top of
the seat to lift the back of the Grasshopper up to get it through the 90
degree bend into my back garden. OTOH the seat on my Streetmachine is
rigidly fixed to the frame whereas on current models I believe it's
adjustable, and held in place using a quick release?

Overall I would rate the BodyLink being a nice idea in theory, but
being a piece of German over-engineering in practice.

The rear rack on the Grasshopper is also slightly strange in that it
doesn't mount the panniers vertically, but rather at a slight angle
outwards. Depending on the length and stiffness of your panniers this
might result in them bending slightly and, in the case of the RHS pannier,
catching on the cablebox for the SRAM DualDrive.

Looking back that all sounds a little negative, but actually I'm very happy
with my Grasshopper[1]. I think I'm a little faster (haven't really tried
any serious hills yet though), and it's a little more comfortable (but
that'll be the better rear suspension!). I suppose I should consider that
I would probably have found it hard to justify replacing the Streetmachine
with a current production example (either GT or GTe), but a Grasshopper
was sufficiently different to bypass that objection.

(Interestingly the person I bought the Streetmachine off of last year was
selling it because they'd replaced it with a Grasshopper!)

[1] Though doing the following to part of it on the day it arrived was
kind of scary!
http://palmersperry.fotopic.net/p28265190.html
http://palmersperry.fotopic.net/p28265191.html
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...

Alistair Gunn said:

I didn't really notice the drop in seat height (90mm on current models
according to HP Velotechnik), other than the fact that it meant I could
now get both feet flat on the floor when stopped!

Mine's the GT with a 26" rear rather than Alistair's 700c "original"
Streetmachine.
I'm 5'8" and have proportionately short legs (I'm sure Roos will confirm
that for you! ;-)) and have no trouble getting both feet flat on the ground.

Quoted message said:

I have noticed is that it seems to be impossible to make the BodyLink
stay firmly fixed in place - however that may be because I use the top of
the seat to lift the back of the Grasshopper up to get it through the 90
degree bend into my back garden. OTOH the seat on my Streetmachine is
rigidly fixed to the frame whereas on current models I believe it's
adjustable, and held in place using a quick release?

Yes, indeed the case, but it's a good solid fixing. I pick my bike up
by the seat, and even with fulltouring gear it doesn't move.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Alistair Gunn said:

(Interestingly the person I bought the Streetmachine off of last year
was selling it because they'd replaced it with a Grasshopper!)

Pete Cox, by any chance?

--
Dave Larrington
<http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk>
Life - loathe it or ignore it, you can't like it.

Adrian Godwin said:

I keep coming across warnings about leg-suck and could see how it
would happen. Is there a case for an under-pedal fairing, which
would catch a slipped foot and keep it off the ground ?

On the one hand, yes, but on the other if you're into performance then
that will add weight and you'll be wearing clipless anyway. On a higher
bike like the Streetmachine it's basically a non-issue.

Also note that a typical slip will go forwards rather than down, so it's
probably not /quite/ as likely as many suppose.

I did almost manage to hurt myself nastily riding a Scorpion though it
wasn't the lack of a clipless pedal. Coming to a halt I automatically
moved into bike mode and put my foot down just before stopping... Ouch
ouch ouch! Lucky I was hardly moving.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email hidden] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

Peter Clinch said:

I did almost manage to hurt myself nastily riding a Scorpion though it
wasn't the lack of a clipless pedal.

Same here but that was more to do with going too fast round corners and
not leaning out the right way.. After rolling it twice I decided they
had better have it back ;-)

Nice machine though. Not quite sure whether I prefer the ICE Q or the
Scorpion..

...d

Dave Larrington twisted the electrons to say:

Quoted message said:

Alistair Gunn said:

(Interestingly the person I bought the Streetmachine off of last year
was selling it because they'd replaced it with a Grasshopper!)

Pete Cox, by any chance?

Can't remember to be honest, lived in Chester and was a BHPC member.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...