Beware of reflectors

On 26/08/2006 21:35, D.M. Procida said,

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

Everyone else does - they are pretty useless in most cirumstances. I
believe it is the law that new bikes must be sold with them fitted though.

Quoted message said:

Finally, my front quick-release skewer had a spring at each end; this
one on the rear wheel seemed only to have one. I'm pretty sure I haven't
lost one of the springs, but that's a bit unusual, isn't it?

They should have two, although again they seem pretty useless. What are
they actually for?

--
Paul Boyd
http://www.paul-boyd.co.uk/

Paul Boyd said:

On 26/08/2006 21:35, D.M. Procida said,

Quoted message said:

Finally, my front quick-release skewer had a spring at each end; this
one on the rear wheel seemed only to have one. I'm pretty sure I
haven't lost one of the springs, but that's a bit unusual, isn't it?

They should have two, although again they seem pretty useless. What
are they actually for?

They should make sure the quick release moves away equally from the fixed
axle, rather than all movement at one end and none at the other. This may
make a race mechanic wheel change fractionally easier.

I cannot see how their absence could be a safety issue, so wouldn't worry
about the missing one.

- Nigel

--
Nigel Cliffe,
Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/

D.M. Procida has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

"Bdoing" went something under my bike,

Do you know, you started to take me back to the halcyon days of
childhood and The Magic Roundabout there...

(Actually, I can't add much to this thread, but just wanted to share my
reminiscence ;o) )

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

A good move, IMO...

Quoted message said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or less
the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel seems
true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again and they
can check my handiwork properly.

Sounds as though you've done a really good job. By all means get them
to check it, but if the wheel is true and you only had to adjust the
new spoke they won't do much, unless the wheel needed retensioning
anyway.

Quoted message said:

Finally, my front quick-release skewer had a spring at each end; this
one on the rear wheel seemed only to have one. I'm pretty sure I haven't
lost one of the springs, but that's a bit unusual, isn't it?

Nigel's explanation for this is spot-on; they simple keep the skewer
nuts equidistant from each end of the axle. I've known time trial
freaks remove them to save weight. Yes, quite.

--
Simon
www.simondaw.freeserve.co.uk

Paul Boyd said:

On 26/08/2006 21:35, D.M. Procida said,

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

Everyone else does - they are pretty useless in most cirumstances. I
believe it is the law that new bikes must be sold with them fitted though.

I took mine off, but once saw a bike with them on from the side at
night. The headlights of cars aided by the rotation really made the bike
stand out. OTOH, how often does one ride broadside to the autos?

-paul

"Paul Cassel" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Paul Boyd said:

On 26/08/2006 21:35, D.M. Procida said,

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

Everyone else does - they are pretty useless in most cirumstances. I
believe it is the law that new bikes must be sold with them fitted
though.

I took mine off, but once saw a bike with them on from the side at night.
The headlights of cars aided by the rotation really made the bike stand
out. OTOH, how often does one ride broadside to the autos?

T-Junctions and Cross Roads where if your out in dark clothing in the dark
they might be the only thing that a cars headlights will pickup, being half
a meter away from being T-Boned during the day.

Niall

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:23:39 +0100 someone who may be "Niall
Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

T-Junctions and Cross Roads where if your out in dark clothing in the dark
they might be the only thing that a cars headlights will pickup,

That is very "useful" to the motorist when they are a relatively
long way away from the junction, so far away that the cyclist will
have crossed long before the motorist reaches the junction. When the
motorist is close enough to hit the cyclist they are close to
useless.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

Simon D said:

D.M. Procida has brought this to us :

Quoted message said:

"Bdoing" went something under my bike,

Do you know, you started to take me back to the halcyon days of
childhood and The Magic Roundabout there...

(Actually, I can't add much to this thread, but just wanted to share my
reminiscence ;o) )

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

A good move, IMO...

Quoted message said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or less
the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel seems
true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again and they
can check my handiwork properly.

Sounds as though you've done a really good job. By all means get them to
check it, but if the wheel is true and you only had to adjust the new
spoke they won't do much, unless the wheel needed retensioning anyway.

Quoted message said:

Finally, my front quick-release skewer had a spring at each end; this
one on the rear wheel seemed only to have one. I'm pretty sure I haven't
lost one of the springs, but that's a bit unusual, isn't it?

Nigel's explanation for this is spot-on; they simple keep the skewer
nuts equidistant from each end of the axle. I've known time trial freaks
remove them to save weight. Yes, quite.

I have a set of Pitlock security skewers which dispense with the springs
altogether so they can't be that critical.

Sam Salt

David Hansen said:

Quoted message said:

T-Junctions and Cross Roads where if your out in dark clothing in the dark
they might be the only thing that a cars headlights will pickup,

That is very "useful" to the motorist when they are a relatively
long way away from the junction, so far away that the cyclist will
have crossed long before the motorist reaches the junction. When the
motorist is close enough to hit the cyclist they are close to
useless.

I suppose if the cyclist is waiting to turn right into a minor road,
then a driver approaching the stationary cyclist might benefit.

Daniele

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 11:20:54 +0100 someone who may be
[email hidden] (D.M. Procida) wrote
this:-

Quoted message said:

I suppose if the cyclist is waiting to turn right into a minor road,
then a driver approaching the stationary cyclist might benefit.

A little bit, but not much because the reflectors are stationary.

Perhaps motor vehicles should be fitted with side reflectors or
lights for the same reason. Alternatively we could demand people
only drive (or cycle) when they can stop in the distance they can
see to be clear.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

D.M. Procida said:

"Bdoing" went something under my bike, so I stoped to have a look. I
couldn't see anything wrong, so I went on; all seemed normal.

On the way home I realised I had a puncture. I realised while looking at
the rear wheel that in fact a spoke had broken, but the break was hidden
by the reflector. In fact it had broken just where the reflector was
attached to it, and the reflector was not in its proper place. So
probably the reflector had move down the spoke, rotated, and got caught
on something, snapping the spoke.

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

Hmmm. Let's consider this:
- wheel reflectors do not add significant weight to your bike (unless
you have a really expensive bike)
- they come pre-installed (so you don't have to do any work to add them
to your bike)
- at worst, wheel reflectors rarely adversely affect your bike (this is
the first incident I, or my friends, have heard of wherein a wheel
reflector ***may*** have damaged a spoke)
- wheel reflectors do add ***some*** (not a lot, but some) reflectivity
to your bike, which is desireable if you cycle at night.

So, a minor cost provides a minor benefit. Removing the reflectors
will take effort and will remove a minor benefit while, at best, will
abrogate a very minor cost.

Frankly, I don't see the value in removing them. I'm not certain that
I'd both to add them, but, having them already installed, I don't see
why you'd remove them.

"D.M. Procida" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Bdoing" went something under my bike, so I stoped to have a look. I
couldn't see anything wrong, so I went on; all seemed normal.

On the way home I realised I had a puncture. I realised while looking at
the rear wheel that in fact a spoke had broken, but the break was hidden
by the reflector. In fact it had broken just where the reflector was
attached to it, and the reflector was not in its proper place. So
probably the reflector had move down the spoke, rotated, and got caught
on something, snapping the spoke.

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

All my relectors get removed. I've in the past spent ages trying to track a
problem with my bike to discover it's loose wheel relectors.

I have enough lights to be seen.

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:23:39 +0100 someone who may be "Niall
Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

T-Junctions and Cross Roads where if your out in dark clothing in the dark
they might be the only thing that a cars headlights will pickup,

That is very "useful" to the motorist when they are a relatively
long way away from the junction, so far away that the cyclist will
have crossed long before the motorist reaches the junction. When the
motorist is close enough to hit the cyclist they are close to
useless.

If a car is at the give way lines on a T-Junction turning Right and the
Cyclist is moving from Left to Right as the driver sees it, the car could be
across the road (and into the cyclist) in the amount of time it takes for
the cycle to enter the cars headlight beam and get to the mid point of the
junction (and into the cars path)

A situation I very nearly foudn my self in durning the day where the driver
of a car comming out of a T-Junction managed to put their nearside indicator
about 20cm away from my offside pedal. this was despite me travelling at a
lowly 16kmh. I am pretty sure in the dark I woudl have been in that drivers
headlight beam, and would hope that big orange blobs spinning might be more
obvious than me out on a nice sunny day wearing a bright yellow t-shirt. But
if drivers arent' going to look......

Niall

"David Hansen" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 06:23:39 +0100 someone who may be "Niall
Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

T-Junctions and Cross Roads where if your out in dark clothing in the dark
they might be the only thing that a cars headlights will pickup,

That is very "useful" to the motorist when they are a relatively
long way away from the junction, so far away that the cyclist will
have crossed long before the motorist reaches the junction. When the
motorist is close enough to hit the cyclist they are close to
useless.

Should also add that I have on many occasions seen people stupid enough to
go out at 1 in the morning, wearing dark clothing, from my vantage point on
the pavement and despite being under street lights the only reason I knew
there was a bike there was because I could see their flasshing red light on
the front. Only realised that the mysterious flasshing light was a bike was
when I heard the tyre noise when it was about 3m away and then saw it from
about 1m away. No I wasn't drunk, I was totally sober, otherwise I wouldn't
have been stupid enough to walk home from the pub.

Upon the miasma of midnight, a darkling spirit identified as Paul Boyd
<[email hidden]> gently breathed:

Quoted message said:

On 26/08/2006 21:35, D.M. Procida said,

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

I can't imagine that a wheel reflector does much use anyway; perhaps
I'll get rid of them.

Quoted message said:

Everyone else does - they are pretty useless in most cirumstances. I
believe it is the law that new bikes must be sold with them fitted
though.

From a motorist POV they are most useful on bikes with no lights, as
they help you to see when one is ridden straight out into the road ahead
of you. Combined with pedal reflectors they give the average motorist a
fighting chance of avoiding the local chavs-on-bikes shooting off the
pavement without giving way at night.

For proper cyclists with lights and a working knowledge of the rules of
the road, they're probably less important.

--
- DJ Pyromancer, The Sunday Goth Social, Leeds. <http://www.sheepish.net>

Broadband, Dialup, Domains = <http://www.wytches.net> = The UK's Pagan ISP!
<http://www.inkubus-sukkubus.co.uk> <http://www.revival.stormshadow.com>

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 14:33:03 +0100 someone who may be "Niall
Wallace" <[email hidden]> wrote this:-

Quoted message said:

If a car is at the give way lines on a T-Junction turning Right and the
Cyclist is moving from Left to Right as the driver sees it, the car could be
across the road (and into the cyclist) in the amount of time it takes for
the cycle to enter the cars headlight beam and get to the mid point of the
junction (and into the cars path)

The car would need to be fitted with headlights on stalks sticking
out of the left side of the car, with the driver's eyes similarly
displaced, for the reflectors to be much use in this situation.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh
I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54

D.M. Procida said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or less
the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel seems
true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again and they
can check my handiwork properly.

Actually the wheel seems very true side-to-side, but (with the tyre on
and pumped up) up-and-down there seems to be a variation of about 1-2mm.
Is this significant?

Daniele

in message
<[email hidden]>,

D.M. Procida (') said:

D.M. Procida said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or
less the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel
seems true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again and
they can check my handiwork properly.

Actually the wheel seems very true side-to-side, but (with the tyre on
and pumped up) up-and-down there seems to be a variation of about
1-2mm. Is this significant?

Yes, but it might just be the seating of the tyre. If not, you want to
true the wheel a bit.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
Ye hypocrites! are these your pranks? To murder men and give God thanks?
Desist, for shame! Proceed no further: God won't accept your thanks for
murther
-- Robert Burns, 'Thanksgiving For a National Victory'

"D.M. Procida" <[email hidden]> wrote in
message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

D.M. Procida said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or less
the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel seems
true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again and they
can check my handiwork properly.

Actually the wheel seems very true side-to-side, but (with the tyre on
and pumped up) up-and-down there seems to be a variation of about 1-2mm.
Is this significant?

Daniele

ride it and see.

D.M. Procida said:

D.M. Procida said:

I have fitted and tightened the news spoke so that it plays more or
less the same note as the nearest ones doing the duty, and the wheel
seems true. I guess that's all I can do until the shop opens again
and they can check my handiwork properly.

Actually the wheel seems very true side-to-side, but (with the tyre on
and pumped up) up-and-down there seems to be a variation of about
1-2mm. Is this significant?

Doesn't really matter if it's not bad enough to feel any bobbing up and down
as you ride, as long as the tyre is basically seated properly and the tube
isn't trapped anywhere.

Probably it's a combination of the wheel and tyre. Often it's practically
impossible to get it all true within 1mm. Rims can be funny around the join
and tyres aren't manufactured perfectly.

But if botherered, have a close look at the rim itself, and a go at
refitting the tyre.

~PB