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Re: how was your weather?

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30 August 2006
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  1. My tour of the Alps this year coincided with the best weather I can
    recall, and I cant recall how good it was more than 20 years ago. I
    was younger and faster then and the weather didn't matter to me
    because it was all a big adventure.

    From 11 July - 03 August the sun shone and we kept hearing of a heat
    wave as we rode in the high country. Besides, heat waves in the Alps
    are often punctuated by evening thunderstorms from which we benefited
    on the so called hottest days. It rained before we started and Autumn
    arrives the last day of the tour.

    The Stelvio has had snow showers on and off ever since.

    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?PASSOALTO
    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?TERRAZZAPIROVANO
    http://www.topin.ch/scripts/big_img.php?bild=ZER.JPG

    ride report is in the making.

    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    Jobst Brandt

  2. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:

    My tour of the Alps this year coincided with the best weather I can
    recall, and I cant recall how good it was more than 20 years ago. I
    was younger and faster then and the weather didn't matter to me
    because it was all a big adventure.

    From 11 July - 03 August the sun shone and we kept hearing of a heat
    wave as we rode in the high country. Besides, heat waves in the Alps
    are often punctuated by evening thunderstorms from which we benefited
    on the so called hottest days. It rained before we started and Autumn
    arrives the last day of the tour.

    So I have read repeatedly how the Alps are warming dramatically and how
    snowpack and glaciers are melting very fast. Did you notice any changes
    like this during your ride?

    Quoted message said:

    The Stelvio has had snow showers on and off ever since.

    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?PASSOALTO
    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?TERRAZZAPIROVANO
    http://www.topin.ch/scripts/big_img.php?bild=ZER.JPG

    ride report is in the making.

    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    Looking forward to reading it, as always.

  3. I rode 100 miles in cold driving rain.

    Well, the first five were probably just chilly.

    And only ten were probably really driving and stinging.

    But I was getting a "nose ache" towards the end, and I'm surprised I
    haven't caught cold at all.

    It was an interestingly experience. What misery! But nothing like in
    the Army. When I had to sleep wet. Ugh!! Crud between your toes and
    all.

  4. Tim McNamara said:
    Quoted message said:

    My tour of the Alps this year coincided with the best weather I can
    recall, and I cant recall how good it was more than 20 years ago.
    I was younger and faster then and the weather didn't matter to me
    because it was all a big adventure.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    From 11 July - 03 August the sun shone and we kept hearing of a
    heat wave as we rode in the high country. Besides, heat waves in
    the Alps are often punctuated by evening thunderstorms from which
    we benefited on the so called hottest days. It rained before we
    started and Autumn arrived the last day of the tour.

    Quoted message said:

    So I have read repeatedly how the Alps are warming dramatically and
    how snow pack and glaciers are melting very fast. Did you notice any
    changes like this during your ride?

    Yes, there were only moraines where I once saw glaciers but that is
    over that last 20years, not just a hot summer.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    The Stelvio has had snow showers on and off ever since.

    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?PASSOALTO
    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?TERRAZZAPIROVANO
    http://www.topin.ch/scripts/big_img.php?bild=ZER.JPG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ride report is in the making.

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    Quoted message said:

    Looking forward to reading it, as always.

    There are lots of pictures to edit as well.

    Jobst Brandt

  5. <[email hidden]> wrote in message
    news:[email hidden]...

    Quoted message said:


    The Stelvio has had snow showers on and off ever since.

    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?PASSOALTO
    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?TERRAZZAPIROVANO
    http://www.topin.ch/scripts/big_img.php?bild=ZER.JPG

    ride report is in the making.

    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    Under the heading of HOLY [censored]!!! is the Stelvio as steep as it looks in
    that photograph?

  6. Tom Kunich said:
    Quoted message said:

    The Stelvio has had snow showers on and off ever since.

    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?PASSOALTO
    http://webcam.popso.it/stelvio.php?TERRAZZAPIROVANO
    http://www.topin.ch/scripts/big_img.php?bild=ZER.JPG

    Quoted message said:
    Quoted message said:

    ride report is in the making.

    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    Quoted message said:

    Under the heading of HOLY [censored]!!! is the Stelvio as steep as it
    looks in that photograph?

    You mean this photograph:

    http://tinyurl.com/agnvh
    http://tinyurl.com/9ah2r

    Yes, it's a long climb but exhilarating as you can see from the
    scenery.

    Check out the web cam at the top in the morning when it is daylight in
    the Alps. That's the view across the summit into the Valtellina, the
    zigzags in the last two URLs.

    Jobst Brandt

  7. In article <[email hidden]>,

    Quoted message said:
    Tom Kunich said:

    Under the heading of HOLY [censored]!!! is the Stelvio as steep as it
    looks in that photograph?

    You mean this photograph:

    http://tinyurl.com/agnvh
    http://tinyurl.com/9ah2r

    Yes, it's a long climb but exhilarating as you can see from the
    scenery.

    Riding up that would be fine. I'd hate to drive a car up it!

  8. Tim McNamara said:

    Riding up that would be fine. I'd hate to drive a car up it!


    I see buses in the photo.

    Art Harris

  9. Tim McNamara wrote

    Quoted message said:

    I have read repeatedly how the Alps are warming dramatically
    and how snowpack and glaciers are melting very fast.

    Try comparing the glacier in this photo
    http://www.trentobike.org/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_of_the_Alps/Gallery/glacier.jpg
    whose thumbnail is given for Col Ferret near Monte Bianco on the Tour of the
    Alps gallery page at
    http://tinyurl.com/dr4ot

    with the same glacier in the first photo on this page
    http://roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb
    taken two weeks ago when I got (thankfully) inspired by one of Jobst
    Brandt's reports to try getting my bike over a high pass without benefit of
    asphalt. I'm guessing that I spent a higher percentage of my time pushing
    and carrying my bike than he did.

    Ken

  10. Ken Roberts said:

    with the same glacier in the first photo on this page
    http://roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb
    taken two weeks ago

    Care to expand a bit and tell us more about your journey?

    Sergio
    Pisa

  11. Thanks Sergio -- It was your suggestions by Email that got me thinking about
    Col de la Seigne, and looking for Jobst Brandt's reports about it -- and his
    and other people's reports about Col du Grand Ferret.

    And it was your suggestion of Col du Grand St Bernard / Passo del Gran San
    Bernardo that got me wanting to make a loop route with that. But riding all
    the way around the Mont Blanc massif seemed like too much, and I liked Jobst
    Brandt's idea that seeing the Mont Blanc massif from the south side was very
    spectacular.

    So I started in Orsieres in Switzerland, rode over Grand St Bernand (indeed
    spectaculay like you said) to Aosta in Italy, then over Col du Petit St
    Bernard (Piccolo San Bernardo) into France and found a hotel down in Bourg
    St Maurice. Next morning I started riding north toward Cormet de Roselend,
    but then turned northwest into Val des Glaciers. I left the road when I saw
    the sign for the Col de la Seigne hiking trail, did a little more riding,
    then lots of steep uphill pushing. Funny thing was the first four people I
    met on the trail that morning on bicycles -- they were amazed anybody would
    try this on a _road_ bicycle. I added a photo of one of the mountain bikers
    and the trail surface to this page: http://roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb

    Then over the Col into Italy and down Val Veny to Entreves -- I didn't feel
    I had time to visit Courmayeur. Then the steep climb up thru la Palud, and
    the delightful gentle paved road in Val Ferret with a festive atmosphere
    with so many people out on a sunny afternoon. Then the steep climb up the
    hiking trail where I was regretting having ever read Jobst's and other
    reports of Col du Grand Ferret. Followed by the happiness of enjoying the
    descent on dirt into Switzerland, and glad I had learned from Jobst that the
    downhill would be more fun taking it south-to-north. Reaching the smooth
    pavement near la Fouly and a high-speed cruise down to the Orsieres train
    station (which made me glad I was on my road bike).

    A good adventure with three countries and two high pass crossings on each
    day -- not sure I'd do all of again.

    A few days later I got to try some of your other ideas like Grosse
    Scheidegg -- very spectacular going east to west, and made a nice loop route
    for me with Interlaken and the Brienzersee and Meiringen.

    Ken

  12. Ken Roberts said:

    Thanks Sergio -- It was your suggestions by Email that got me
    thinking about Col de la Seigne, and looking for Jobst Brandt's
    reports about it -- and his and other people's reports about Col du
    Grand Ferret.

    Quoted message said:

    And it was your suggestion of Col du Grand St Bernard / Passo del
    Gran San Bernardo that got me wanting to make a loop route with
    that. But riding all the way around the Mont Blanc massif seemed
    like too much, and I liked Jobst Brandt's idea that seeing the Mont
    Blanc massif from the south side was very spectacular.

    Quoted message said:

    So I started in Orsieres in Switzerland, rode over Grand St Bernard
    (indeed spectacular, as you said) to Aosta in Italy, then over Col
    du Petit St Bernard (Piccolo San Bernardo) into France and found a
    hotel down in Bourg St Maurice. Next morning I started riding north
    toward Cormet de Roselend, but then turned northwest into Val des
    Glaciers. I left the road when I saw the sign for the Col de la
    Seigne hiking trail, did a little more riding, then lots of steep
    uphill pushing. Funny thing was the first four people I met on the
    trail that morning on bicycles -- they were amazed anybody would try
    this on a _road_ bicycle. I added a photo of one of the mountain
    bikers and the trail surface to this page:
    http://roberts-1.com/t/b06/mb

    Quoted message said:

    Then over the Col into Italy and down Val Veny to Entreves -- I
    didn't feel I had time to visit Courmayeur. Then the steep climb up
    thru la Palud, and the delightful gentle paved road in Val Ferret
    with a festive atmosphere with so many people out on a sunny
    afternoon. Then the steep climb up the hiking trail where I was
    regretting having ever read Jobst's and other reports of Col du
    Grand Ferret. Followed by the happiness of enjoying the descent on
    dirt into Switzerland, and glad I had learned from Jobst that the
    downhill would be more fun taking it south-to-north. Reaching the
    smooth pavement near la Fouly and a high-speed cruise down to the
    Orsieres train station (which made me glad I was on my road bike).

    Quoted message said:

    A good adventure with three countries and two high pass crossings on
    each day -- not sure I'd do all of again.

    I noticed the loss of glacial ice as I rode over these passes this
    year, especially on the Col Ferret as well as the Rhone Glacier.

    You can see the loss of ice in the following two pictures, seen from
    the col Ferret:

    http://mly.smugmug.com/gallery/1815091/10/90657821
    http://tinyurl.com/egdhb
    http://www.paloaltobicycles.com/alps_photos/s82.html

    Quoted message said:

    A few days later I got to try some of your other ideas like Grosse
    Scheidegg -- very spectacular going east to west, and made a nice
    loop route for me with Interlaken and the Brienzersee and Meiringen.

    At least there the ice isn't visibly reduced because you can't see the
    trailing moraines. Just the same it was great weather.

    Jobst Brandt

  13. Wow, Ken, those are stunning pictures of a great ride. Hmm, if I ever
    get back to the Alps again I will have to ride more northerly than I
    did in 2002, which was all south of the Maurienne valley to Nice.

  14. Tim McNamara wrote

    Quoted message said:

    ... if I ever get back to the Alps again I will have to
    ride more northerly than I did in 2002, which was
    all south of the Maurienne valley to Nice.

    I used to wonder why Jobst's reports seemed to spend more time in
    Switzerland and northeast Italy and less time in southern Alps of France.
    Now that I've ridden in both, I think I get it. On my last day over in
    eastern Switzerland, I met a couple of English-speaking guys. They said it
    was their 6th time coming to eastern Switzerland to ride the high passes.

    Quoted message said:

    ... those are stunning pictures of a great ride.

    There's a bit of luck in that: It had snowed above 2300 meters altitude
    just a couple of days before (and pouring rain below that) -- so the
    glaciers looked whiter and brighter than you'd usually see on a bicycle
    tour. In September the glaciers are often kind of dirty with lots of
    brownish-gray tint.

    But you don't have to leave that to luck. The mountains generally look more
    spectacular with some snow on them for contrast against the blue sky and
    dark rocks. If you come in June (or late May), you're going to see more
    peaks that still have snow on them, and more likely the snow will be a
    brighter white. (that's why I like to go to the mountains in April and early
    May and climb up on my _skis_ -- I've skied to both Col du Galibier and
    Furkapass while they were fully covered with deep snow -- likewise Tioga
    pass and the Minaret summit road in the California Sierras)

    The downside of bicycling in the Alps in early season is that some passes
    might be closed, and those unpaved crossings can be pretty slushy -- or very
    muddy with continual slow feeding from melt-water of snow remaining from
    winter -- or new snow in a late-spring storm.

    Ken

  15. Jobst Brandt said:

    I noticed the loss of glacial ice as I rode over these passes
    this year, especially on the Col Ferret as well as the Rhone Glacier.

    Yes, visible in your photos. The view of the Rhone glacier from the
    Furkapass road must have been more spectacular back when it was a bright
    white glacier instead of dull white rock.

    From some of the smugmug.com photos, looks to me sorta like for Col Ferret
    you stayed on the road all the way to Rifugio Elena / Pre du Bar - - true??
    I took the hiking trail starting from the end of the public road at Arnuva,
    and the trail there starts off real steep and strenuous. Then I got to Elena
    and saw somebody had driven a car up there. I'm sure I would have been
    happier with Col Ferret if I'd started the strenuous lifting and rolling
    higher + closer at Elena.

    Looks like you sure had some nice sunny days for photos. I especially
    noticed how your photos of climbing Sustenpass (smugmug.com page 2:
    http://mly.smugmug.com/gallery/1815091/2) came out better than mine --
    because I liked Sustenpass and wish I'd had photos more worthy of it. But I
    had some cloudy days around then -- pleasant for long climbs but not for
    photos.

    Ken

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